Mysteries of the Universe - The Paranormal

[physics223]

I didn't make it up, though.

[HoboGod]

You people are joking, right? People shouldn't rationalize real life with stories of make believe and superstition. If your most rational explination for a strange object in the sky is aliens-with-hyper-advanced-technology-capable-of-traveling-many-lightyears-from-planets-in-galaxies-we-haven't-yet-found, then I certainly hope you've been reading too many sci-fi books and you're not just insane.

6/6/06 occurred in 1906, 1806, 1706, 1606, 1506, and so forth. I don't see any historical records of the demons of hell influencing great evils each millenia on that day. Humanity's measurement of time doesn't affect the planet. To believe otherwise is purely egotistical.

And what the hell is this about the earth existing for 10,000 years and the discovery of dinosaur bones being the result of high oxygen content? In the words of Huang Po: "The foolish reject what they see and not what they think; the wise reject what they think and not what they see."

As for the black moth in a sealed room, if everybody immediately blames a ghost for something they couldn't explain, then alot more criminals would prey upon the ignorance of others.

[physics223]

Your opinion varies greatly from us, and that, in the least, has made discussion worthwhile. I saw that black moth, and I saw a sealed room. That's a sealed room with screens. I wouldn't be an arse saying that if there were a hole in the wall or whatnot, but it seems to have been from nowhere.

Of course, perhaps there were moth eggs, right? Or perhaps we just shut the room, and, having opened it for a while, let the moth entered. I know I'm not an arse, but if I can't attribute its occurrence to anything logical I'd attribute it to something metalogical. Something beyond normal logic.

If you'd attribute the disappearances in the Bermuda Triangle to be simply seismic motion, for example, how come that if it's only seismic motion more than a hundred people have disappeared?

Simply put, the truth is that there are some things that we'll never know, ever. A God distances what we know from what we do not know so that there'll always be enough mystery in our daily life. Even Einstein believed in a God, and assuming your statements to be atheistic (am I right?) it's a hard case for one to disprove that God exists.

[Wavie]

I dont know... I lost my gran and grandad this year.

After their deaths i got shivers every so often, but one of the weirdest things was...

I was sitting in a room with a lecturer and another student... she spoke with us for 10 minutes and ask questions but she completely ignored me. It was getting a bit annoying... i missed first few classes cause of my gran and grandad leaving, so she must have assumed i wasnt worth talking to. Anyway 10 minutes I was annoyed as I am sure anyone else who would be watching would know that she was giving me no attention... then a poster fell off the wall for no reason, there was no movement in room and no one near it. I would like to think it was my gran and grandad watching over me.

[HoboGod]

When something unusual happens, why attribute it to the supernaturual when it can be explained by something natural? A poorly hung poster is far more logical than an invisible dead person. If you're going to believe it was a ghost, why not go as far as to believe it was a leprechaun or a magical fairy?

----

There are hundreds of people that go missing in New York City each year. The only reason we don't create myths about New York having some strange black hole is because we're logical enough to know what probably happened. I'm sure if you did some investigating, you'd find a logical reason for the Bramuta Triange as well.

[Wavie]

The poster was hung there for ages... whats the chances itd fall when I was there? A poster that aint stuck properly usually falls off straight away... it was obviously stuck properly for months yet choose the time that i was there to fall down?

that was first and only time i was ever there for 15 mins.

Ok hobo - if the universe does not have any wonders, nothing supernatural happens, there are no aliens, ghosts or UFO's then why are we are, why does the universe exist, why do we take the form we do?

As much as you try to put logic to things you will never be able to answer those questions and no one else will for that matter, but one answer is clear from it... it is a miracle and a mystery to the fact that the Universe is here and that we are alive... if that one miracle has happened then there is always the chance of countless more.

You cannot disagree with that.

[Dhomochevsky]

All my posters fall from the wall after some time. Ususaly a couple of weeks.
Well they did until I started using double sided tape all over the backside.

This thread is really weird. But interesting to see, what I might be able to make people believe in the future. Might come in handy. "no, that wasnt me who spilled the coke on your documents. It was my dead cat, that is still angry at my for not brushing her fur the day she was hit by that car" - "ah nevermind then... those sneaky ghost cats again. theyre a real plague!"

[HoboGod]

Originally Posted by Wavie

A poster that aint stuck properly usually falls off straight away...

Usually, but not always. There is a higher probability that this is one of those rare occurances rather than it was a ghost we can't even prove exists.

Originally Posted by Wavie

Ok hobo - if the universe does not have any wonders, nothing supernatural happens, there are no aliens, ghosts or UFO's then why are we are, why does the universe exist, why do we take the form we do?

As much as you try to put logic to things you will never be able to answer those questions and no one else will for that matter, but one answer is clear from it... it is a miracle and a mystery to the fact that the Universe is here and that we are alive... if that one miracle has happened then there is always the chance of countless more.

I agree that universe has many wonders, but logic CAN solve them. Rather than exploring the possibilities of the unknown with mythology, fables, legends, and ghost stories, use methods like theoretical physics and probability averaging.

[physics223]

There are myths, fables, legends and ghost stories even up to now because methods like theoretical physics and probability averaging are not the answers to these problems. Logic can't solve them all.

Saint Thomas Aquinas said that 'when reason ends, faith begins.' A lot of people (save you) perhaps believe in God because there are many things that logic can't answer. Even the 'king' of theoretical physics, Albert Einstein, believed in a 'watchmaker:' he believed in Spinoza's God, a God nonetheless. That's because no matter how he tries to put logic to solve the wonders of the universe, in fact barely only solved very, very few of them.

[Aoie_Emesai]

Originally Posted by Wavie

i believe neptune and uranus or one of the two is made up of mainly water just like earth tho, from what i read.

Europa and Titan is quite interesting tho... i knew about titan but not about Europa

hehe jedinat, maybe mate maybe

raphaël - id blame my lass

Funny thing happened to me.

I was staring at grass next to my mate whiles my other mate was behind him playing with a toy (this was a few years ago now)... sounds wrong i know lol. Anyway i was sorta spaced out and i saw him shooting him with toy... i then sorta flashed back or saw future or something cause i said hes about to shoot you before he did it... he was like how did you know i was about to shoot him?

I thought it was strange Time shift for the win eh?

lol well spotted for seeing the thread is Haruhi ish

You read way too much then. You know what they say, don't belive everything you hear, read, or see. It's best to know both opposing side and determine the truth from what you feel is correct.

[jedinat]

In my computer science classes I would often fall into a semi-concious state where I could see strange darting black objects zip around in front of my eyes. Sometimes such visions would startle me into full wakefulness. The jerking motion my body would make I would try to play off as intentional by reaching for a pencil or opening my textbook.
I have since given up on CS... it's so freaking boring.

[HoboGod]

Originally Posted by physics223

There are myths, fables, legends and ghost stories even up to now because methods like theoretical physics and probability averaging are not the answers to these problems. Logic can't solve them all.

Saint Thomas Aquinas said that 'when reason ends, faith begins.' A lot of people (save you) perhaps believe in God because there are many things that logic can't answer. Even the 'king' of theoretical physics, Albert Einstein, believed in a 'watchmaker:' he believed in Spinoza's God, a God nonetheless. That's because no matter how he tries to put logic to solve the wonders of the universe, in fact barely only solved very, very few of them.

I can't accept that. Believing that something about this universe cannot be solved with logic is to say this universe is illogical. I would rather ponder endlessly than concede to that.

Originally Posted by Number 48

Although I am still doubtful to the very existence of ghosts and other paranormal things. I must say logically--The other civilizations exists throughout our universe. There is no chance that we are the only ones with a developed mind and technology. In our galaxy alone there are countless planets and in those planets there is a chance they harbor life in them--the whole universe is populated by many countless civilizations and many of them are technologically advanced than us. There is no doubt about it.

The only known way that life exists is a combination of liquid water and favorable temperatures. In our solar system, water exists almost exclusively in the outer solar system where it is too cold too thaw. Water arrived on this planet what scientists believe that when jupiter and saturn lined up billions years, they're combined gravity launched rocks from the asteroid belt toward the Earth where water could turn into liquid. Also, the Earth was knocked on an slanted axis, a very unique attribute that causes the changing seasons and makes the Earth not too hot and not too cold. Whatever knocked the Earth on a axis, most likely created the moon. This had to have occured before water arrived on earth. And because of the position of that moon from the Earth, it's gravity keeps the Earth on it's axis. Also there is something about our planet's size that is very important, but I wont go into that.

All of these things are nessisary for life to exist as we know it. I find it very improbable to believe that all this happened on some other planet out there recently enough for intelegant life to exist along side us and close enough for them to travel here. That's all I'll say regarding the existance of aliens.

[C.A.]

People above have already mentioned that the universe is logical and everything can be explained. The only thing that actually limits our understanding is language, if we don't have a word to describe something, it can't be understood.
----------

Spoiler for life on other planets:

Water isn't exactly an essential, but it acts as a strong hint that a planet may contain life.

On earth theres a class of organisms called extremophiles, microbes that live in impossible, extreme habitats and conditions.

They are highly specialised but all share something in common, they don't have 'normal' needs.

We have extremophiles that :

1. breath carbon dioxide
2. eat rocks, literally
3. need no sunlight
4. need no water
5. live in extremely cold temperatures.
6. live inside volcanoes with temperatures going several thousand degrees.
7. live inside nuclear reactor cores, the last place you'll expect life.

Extremophiles can have several of these characteristics at once. You can imagine that they can probably survive by eating rocks and breathing carbon dioxide on Venus where surface temperatures have an average of 464 degrees celcius.

------------

About ghosts/spirits/souls etc

Spoiler for ghosts/spirits/souls :

I watched some documentaries about the supernatural on discovery channel.

Theres one scientific explanation that makes sense to me:

Basically all lifeforms has an electromagnetic field around them, if sharks could speak, they would surely confirm that for us. For sharks can sense electromagnetic pulses and thats one of the senses for hunting.

Anyway your brain and the nervous system generates alot of electric pulses which produces a weak electromagnetic field. This electromagnetic field may very well be your soul/spirit.

At the point of death the electromagnetic field will leave an imprint over the spot of your death. Its something like radioactive matter leaving radioactivity. Normally a dead person won't leave any detectable electromagnetic fields, but one that died while his brain/body is having lots of activity will.

How can someone die while having lots of activity? Aren't you suppose to be inactive when you die?

When you are sleeping or at peace, your nervous system is not really active compared to when you're struggling, having strong emotions, doing tedious work etc.

If you die peacefully, by old age or by disease that doesn't cause excruciating pain of some sort, you'll die with a relatively weak electromagnetic field, meaning little or no electromagnetic imprint over the spot of your death.

But what if you die because you were murdered? Death by accident? Suicide because you can't stand torment of some sort? You should notice that these are usually those events that leads to hauntings, yea? When you die so suddenly, or with such violence, pain and extreme emotions, your body is most active and have the strongest electromagnetic field before dying. Such deaths will leave imprints and these electromagnetic imprints are experienced as ghosts.

How do one pick up these electromagnetic imprints? I'll talk about this another time, this post is getting too long lol.

[HoboGod]

Of course, extremophiles are the possible exception, but to think that they'd develop into intelegant beings seems highly unlikely judging from the kind we've found.

[DaFool]

Originally Posted by C.A.

We may also be totally ignored because our technology is way too primitive, we can never catch up to them in all eternity.

The way technology advances is more exponential than linear. The higher the technology you have, the more technologies you will create at a faster pace.

The Earth is 4.5 billion years old and life has been around for almost 400million years but we humans are late bloomers. Modern humans have only been around for 10000 years or so. The universe has been around for at least 12.7 billion years.

There's a really high chance that alien civilisations out there have been advancing for millions of years. We humans who have been around for 10000 years would be extremely primitive compared to another civilisation that has been advancing for even just 20000 years.

So maybe we humans are doomed because we are so late lol

No, because being in the nether regions of the galaxy (as well as the universe), it is relatively safe here. I used to think that advanced civilizations would be located near the center of the galaxy, until I read that it's just too violent there with all the star-creating activity --- lots of supernovas and gamma ray bursters that can obliterate planets and systems within seconds (think Gunbuster 2 with 1000X more violence)

So effectively, our region (or the circumference that has our distance from galactic center) has just the right amount of inactivity, but also has just the right amount of materials to build life and eventually civilization. Any farther away from the galactic center, and there might not have been enough rocks bumping into each other to form planets.

So given that we are at the optimum life formation region, it makes sense that perhaps, even after billions of years, we are the most advanced civilization in the galaxy. The aliens we see are the same as us -- time-travelling post-evolved humans. Heck some of them may even be genetic experiments gone wrong.

[physics223]

Originally Posted by HoboGod

I can't accept that. Believing that something about this universe cannot be solved with logic is to say this universe is illogical. I would rather ponder endlessly than concede to that.

Don't accept what I say.

Kurt Godel, among the geniuses of the 20th century (and belonging among Time's 100 People of the Century) created two incompleteness theorems. He says, to simplify things, that not all things are provable in formal systems. Assuming the entire universe as a formal system, there are questions inside the universe that can't be totally answered by what is existing in the universe itself. There are just some axioms and postulates that are inherently neither provable nor disprovable. This is among the most shaking theorems in mathematics because it states that even logic itself has a hole.

The universe isn't illogical - it merely has unanswerable questions that a lot of us attribute to the 'incompleteness' - merely ghosts, poltergeists, or God.

Simply put, even if we didn't know it, we are using a mathematical theory in formal logic. That's why even Einstein believed in God. (Godel and he were close friends, by the way.)

Of course, I may be wrong in how I interpret the theory - it's too complex, and I digested from it what I could.

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by DaFool

So given that we are at the optimum life formation region, it makes sense that perhaps, even after billions of years, we are the most advanced civilization in the galaxy. The aliens we see are the same as us -- time-travelling post-evolved humans. Heck some of them may even be genetic experiments gone wrong.

Assuming (and this is a very questionable assumption) the reports of "alien abductees" are accurate, that would make sense. After all, they report that they're being used in breeding experiments, and the "aliens" are creating hybrids. However, only closely related species can interbreed, and usually the resulting offspring is sterile. The odds of an intelligent lifeform that evolved on another world being geneticly similiar to humans is so remote it's probably safe to say it's impossible. Not to mention the odds of those intelligent beings being so similiar to humans in body shape... So I'd have to agree with you about the "aliens" being evolved, or geneticly altered humans from the future.

Of course I don't personally believe that it's really happening at all, but if it is...

As for whether other intelligent life exists, I believe that it most certainly does. However, I highly doubt there is another civilization or at least no such civilization more advanced than say earily 18th century earth within 50 or so light years from earth. After all, if a civilization within that range has radio, we would have almost certainly detected them. It's possible they've just recently developed it, though, in which case we would be able to detect them soon. Well, unless they were a bit smarter than us and realized that carelessly sending radio signals in every direction might attract unwanted attention.

[Lost]

Originally Posted by HoboGod

I can't accept that. Believing that something about this universe cannot be solved with logic is to say this universe is illogical. I would rather ponder endlessly than concede to that.

I wouldn't necessarily equate not being able to solve somethings with logic with the universe being illogical.

It really depends on how you see it. Take for example: we know that for the most part our universe follows some rules, natural, physical laws bound up with the coherent traveling of space and time. However, think of blackholes, in which physicists say time and space are scrambled up strangely, such that time maybe even travel backwards. Assuming those physicists are right, those natural laws we spoke of are here being broken. Does this departure from what we considered normal (natural/logical) make the universe illogical, unreasonable? Or is it rather just another feature of our universe, to be accepted the way it is?

Maybe a better analogy: While a T.V. may have been illogical to people in 1006 C.E., it surely isn't illogical to us now. (a lack of a T.V. would be illogical to most now )

The way I see it, logic (for that matter, all science) is an equation that requires our perceptive input; i.e. what we see, hear, feel, observe, what we use our senses for. It relies our perception (like C.A was saying, about languages). What happens when one part of this equation that is needed to make the equation complete, i.e. logical, is outside of our perception? That doesnt mean that the equation is unsolvable at all, which doesn't make the object/action/idea-in-question illogical (and by extension impossible?)

~~~~~~

That having be said, logic is still a wonderful tool in figuring stuff like what Wavie said. On your post, a certain lee-way must be made for randomness. Unless you felt something (which can't be verified by us here), why can't your experience be attributed to chance, a mere occurance at which time you happened to be in the room? Now assuming that is so, applying logic and reasoning to this would tell us, for one, its possible that the tacking came off. Perhaps it was because the room was too dry, humidity just a little percentage down, for some months so as to dry the tacking/tape up. Lets examine our starting assumption too: It is also not unreasonable that this was a chance occurance - things like this have happened to all of us one time or another, and yes, while we have felt them to be weird, we reason it out and find that in the circumstances (just as in yours) there is no reason to attribute the happening to anything other than chance.

Rather, I think it is unreasonable to, out-of the blue, associate this to the fact of your grandparents passing away in the same year. (I am sorry for your loss)

~~~~~~

But a point to remember is that even if something can be made sense of by logic, it isnt necessarily correct. "Solve them" doesnt mean "prove them." Because, again, we are looking thru our eyes, our perception. And a rather limited one too.

Back to square one.

disclaimer: i spent the last 47 minutes reading and re-reading
my post to figure if there were any loopholes, misinterpretations
and such to correct.

Originally Posted by Kamui

Well, unless they were a bit smarter than us and realized that carelessly sending radio signals in every direction might attract unwanted attention.

Hee hee I absolutely agree with that.

[Kasrkin Squad]

Originally Posted by Number 48

I believe that right now a massive space warfare is being fought somewhere in the Universe--even on our galaxy. Maybe humans too will be able to join someday--but when that happens--some of our bones probably have turned into dust.

Refering to 40k or just in general?

Originally Posted by Wavie

man thatd be cooooool, i wouldnt wanna kill people or aliens. but id love to be able to fly in space as part of a war - fighting robots maybe lol?

You wouldn't like Warhammer 40k at all. (Well maybe.)

My addition to this thread will be two make that three jokes from George Carlin.

The first one is from his HBO special "Life is Worthlosing." Basically he goes on about things we do. Human scarifice, genocide, canablism, necrofelia, (sp) etc. Once he is done with going over those he ends it with a "And then we wonder why a UFO doesn't just land and say hello."

The second one comes from one of his books. This isn't it exactly but it is still funny and gets the point across. I believe that aliens came down to Earth abducted early man. They then altered our genes to make us just smart enough to create nuclear weapons but dumb enough to not use them correctly. Then they put us back, turned on the TV, and enjoyed the show. Personally I think they are getting their money's worth."

The last one is also from what I remember of it. "If it is true that humans are the only intellegent species in the universe then we can be sure of one thing. The universe aimed low but settled for very little."