Aldnoah.Zero - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Why? Why should he place that degree of trust in the Earth side?

The one time he clearly helped them out, it resulted in a tense confrontation between him and an Earth soldier, which in turn led to him getting shot out of the sky and captured/interrogated by Cruhteo.

Basically you are saying that in the end Slaine took such a big decision over a single confrontation with just a soldier. Despite what happened later to him Orange was just a single person. Basically he condemned the whole Earth over that brief exchange only. And having as only other option nothing more than a mere traitor who swore to kill her precious princess and destroy Earth.
That's basically why I can't justify him.
Letting aside that I can't buy that Slaine took that decision only for that. Inaho's "stealing his role" had a weight in all of this. As the events are hinting even in this episode.

[Eclipze]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Why? Why should he place that degree of trust in the Earth side?

The one time he clearly helped them out, it resulted in a tense confrontation between him and an Earth soldier, which in turn led to him getting shot out of the sky and captured/interrogated by Cruhteo.

The Earth side certainly didn't seem very grateful for how he helped them defeat Femi. Rather than gratefulness, or even simple eagerness to add him and his "bat" as an ally, the Earth side acted with suspicion towards him. However legitimate that suspicion may or may not be, it's only natural it would cause Slaine to be very leery of trying to ally with the Earth side. In his own mind, he may even think it's not an option at all.

I believe this was discussed way back during that episode already, but just because an enemy decides to back you up in a single fight, it doesn't mean that they should be trusted completely. Internal conflicts can happen in organizations, and sacrificing one of their own to trick the enemy is not entirely unheard of either.

Inaho gave Slaine a very simple question/test to determine if he could truly be trusted enough to be brought onboard to see Assyleum, and he failed the test miserably on top of being the first person to fire his weapon since he could not control his emotions.

Was Inaho partly at fault for insinuating that he might exploit the princess? Sure, but he was being truthful (She is an important factor that could end the war) and Slaine wasn't exactly being a role model as far as his handling of the situation goes either.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Arya

Basically you are saying that in the end Slaine took such a big decision over a single confrontation with just a soldier.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it was a factor, but not the only one.

Another factor was the connection that Slaine made with Saazbaum. Saazbaum clearly had a profound impact on Slaine. I think that Slaine's desire to reform Vers arose considerably from his interactions with Saazbaum. And to reform a people, it helps to be a part of them...

Originally Posted by Eclipze

Was Inaho partly at fault for insinuating that he might exploit the princess? Sure, but he was being truthful (She is an important factor that could end the war) and Slaine wasn't exactly being a role model as far as his handling of the situation goes either.

And that insinuation plays into why Slaine felt he couldn't trust the Earth side.

You don't have to condemn what Inaho did in order to understand why it would leave Slaine distrusting of the Earth side.

[Eclipze]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it was a factor, but not the only one.

Another factor was the connection that Slaine made with Saazbaum. Saazbaum clearly had a profound impact on Slaine. I think that Slaine's desire to reform Vers arose considerably from his interactions with Saazbaum. And to reform a people, it helps to be a part of them...

Eh, if anything, Slaine was probably suffering from Stockholm's Syndrome after spending time with Saaz, which explains why he rush to the count's rescue, starting that whole mess at the end of S1.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

And that insinuation plays into why Slaine felt he couldn't trust the Earth side.

You don't have to condemn what Inaho did in order to understand why it would leave Slaine distrusting of the Earth side.

Neither did he present himself in a trustworthy manner to the Earth side, it goes both ways.

[MonkeyDude]

...and in less than two years, Slaine is guilty of the very same thing he accused Inaho of doing. Slaine's hypocrisy runs deep, but he's also pretty genre-savvy! Keeping Asseylum locked up in her own bird cage while forcing a betrothal is a great way of building anti-NTR armor! Now he just needs to silence Eddelrittuo for starting to know a little too much of his business...

Originally Posted by Eclipze

Eh, if anything, Slaine was probably suffering from Stockholm's Syndrome after spending time with Saaz, which explains why he rush to the count's rescue, starting that whole mess at the end of S1.

I think it would be more along the lines of nightingale than stockholm syndrome. Sauce was the one who saved Slaine from bondage and was instrumental in nursing him back to health (gave the order to treat him and whatnot). Though the psychological effects do mirror stockholm more so than nightingale. Then again Slaine does make for pretty good yaoi bait...

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Another factor was the connection that Slaine made with Saazbaum. Saazbaum clearly had a profound impact on Slaine. I think that Slaine's desire to reform Vers arose considerably from his interactions with Saazbaum. And to reform a people, it helps to be a part of them...

In the end what I can't forgive him for is that he kept totally ignoring Earth and its inhabitants (and that has nothing to do with him being a Terran, even without it it would have bothered me).
In S1 he was focused totally on Asseylum and then he directly switched to save Mars. But I don't remember a moment he actually stopped and focused on the Earth. And here insert my previous post.

[azurestratos]

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

Rayet's choice is kind of simple. She was saved by Inaho's people. She didn't really have a way to keep fighting for Vers even if she wanted to, short of causing some mischief from within, but she is super limited. Not to mentioned she was dragged into it from the start, it wasn't like she wanted to be a terrorist.
She had basically been accepted by them before she made her choices, and that's what strenghtened her resolve.

And Inaho doesn't have enough problems, as silly as it sounds. His loyalties and his choices are never tested. Only his battle prowess is.

Just for a tiny example: when he let Count M. escape. He never had any doubts about it. No one else had any problems with it.

Or Asseylum.
Yes, she is a Vers princess, but it's obvious she is not really an enemy. She likes him since the very beginning. Yes, she is held by Slaine now, but it is a technical problem for Inaho, once again not an ethical or emotional one. He never gets to be jealous, need to win her over, have a mental breakdown about falling for an enemy or whatever.

L-Elf is also a 'robot', a supremely cool-blooded and skillful fellow, but his circumstances are different. He betrays his friends. He is not trusted or liked by his new 'team'. That's why people never hated on him that much.

Its not that other other people don't have problems, its just the other people don't act totally melodramatic when problem happens.

Rayet was on Vers side, the Vers killed her father, she lost trust in Vers and wanted revenge. Its just so happens the Terrans is her best chance to get back at the Martians for killing everyone that mattered to her.

Contrast that to Slaine, the Vers treat him like dirt, luckily he has Asseylum for support. Fast forward, he then oppose Vers for trying to kill Asseylum. After his stupid action with Inaho, he then sided with Saauzbaum, and back on Vers side.

Contrast with Inaho, Vers killed his parents, he had a hard life, luckily he has Yuki and friends. His best friend got killed by Vers, he wanted to fight back and survive. He could have aimed to destroy the Vers but instead helped Asseylum and aimed only to stop the war.

They all have lost loved ones, but Inaho kept his cool, Rayet went beserk one time, and Slaine had multiple emotional breakdowns. Just because one person cries louder doesn't mean their problem is more important. Mature people don't act like babies. Same goes for Saazbaum, who is a baby.

Originally Posted by IllegalGoddess

The only way Asseylum can get what she wants is the destruction of Vers.
Slaine would have probably given that to her if he could.

Also, following this logic, shouldn't she remember that she is not a Terran herself? Yet if Vers simply backed off from the war in order to end it, their society would have continued to suffer.

Asseylum's problem is that she cannot get what she wants without someone's blood being spilled in the process but she will not forgive whoever spills it.

The only way Asseylum can get what she wants is by undoing what her father Gilzeria did. If she had succeed in her diplomatic mission, and the greedy Lords haven't assassinated her, Asseylum could have paved way for open trade between Earth and Mars. Vers could have the resources they wanted, in exchange for technology, energy, or protection services with different countries.

Hell, I bet the Africans would grow food for them if Vers make a contract to supply electric with Aldnoah powerplant which would be zero cost and pollution. Environment-conscious Europeans would welcome them.

[azurestratos]

Originally Posted by Eclipze

I believe this was discussed way back during that episode already, but just because an enemy decides to back you up in a single fight, it doesn't mean that they should be trusted completely. Internal conflicts can happen in organizations, and sacrificing one of their own to trick the enemy is not entirely unheard of either.

Inaho gave Slaine a very simple question/test to determine if he could truly be trusted enough to be brought onboard to see Assyleum, and he failed the test miserably on top of being the first person to fire his weapon since he could not control his emotions.

Was Inaho partly at fault for insinuating that he might exploit the princess? Sure, but he was being truthful (She is an important factor that could end the war) and Slaine wasn't exactly being a role model as far as his handling of the situation goes either.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

And that insinuation plays into why Slaine felt he couldn't trust the Earth side.

You don't have to condemn what Inaho did in order to understand why it would leave Slaine distrusting of the Earth side.

Let's not forget what Slaine did is idiotic.

He pointed his gun, then opened fire on a Terran soldier. What comes after that?

Say he killed Inaho. What now? Its him and the Deucalion, is he going to storm the Deucalion with his Carrier and expect to successfully rescue the Princess unharmed?

If he was any smarter he would've played along, convince Inaho he was on Terran side, and get his audience with Princess. Then he could plan his escape with the Princess from the inside if he wanted to. I like Slaine as a character, but I also recognizes where his wrongdoings are.

[Dauerlutscher]

Originally Posted by azurestratos

Let's not forget what Slaine did is idiotic.

He pointed his gun, then opened fire on a Terran soldier. What comes after that?

Say he killed Inaho. What now? Its him and the Deucalion, is he going to storm the Deucalion with his Carrier and expect to successfully rescue the Princess unharmed?

If he was any smarter he would've played along, convince Inaho he was on Terran side, and get his audience with Princess. Then he could plan his escape with the Princess from the inside if he wanted to. I like Slaine as a character, but I also recognizes where his wrongdoings are.

Yup. The thing is that no matter how you look at it, Slaine was never in any position to demand something from the Terrans. If he wanted to see Asseylum, he should have cooperated. You know, answering the questions and do exactly what the Terrans want from him.
But nope, he did not cooperate, instead he had the nerve to demaded things and even shoot first.
Every crap he want through, is because of his own doing.
Even now, his lying, exploiting and betraying people, is because of his own doing.
That Assyelum got shoot and was in coma is because of him.
That Asseylum will be eventually forced to this absurd marriage with him, is also because of him.
That the war still continues and many people are dying is also because of him.

He is a Hypocrite, a traitor to mankind and is taking part on a genocide.
He is responsible for his own and many other peoples misery

That is why I can't feel any symphaty for him and facepalm everytime when some people come with the "poor Slaine is suffering" nonsense.

[Hidetoshi Nakata]

ould question has a very cool on 4chan forum, he has 14 Asked Questions?
1-Why was never shown, through Flash Back, Slaine feeling guilt and regrets for what he did?
2-ever, we Slaine have difficulties in their battles, and the rapid rise policy?
3-ever Slaine was seen, planning, studying tactics of fighting, studying the opponents, trying to figure out the weakness of the opponents, considering plans to combat and tactics, or thinking about the revolution?
4-Slaine had some difficulty in his political rise?
5-Slaine, had no loss during his political rise, because it could so easily?
6-Why, Slaine has no inner thoughts and monologues on their tactics and plans for revolution, or during your battles?
7-When Marylcian challenged Slaine, was never shown Slaine studying the fighting opponent, or making a plan for this fight, and Development is one tactic. That is a victory for convenience writers?
8-Taking the duel with Marylcian, what other fight Slaine had?
9-Slaine had some loss, any member of his family was killed, a friend died during his rise political?
10-It Harklight, who develops the plans, and battle tactics, and studies the opponents?
11 It is possible that only someone and shown reading books on flowers and birds, and visiting a princess in a tube, be a revolutionary?
12 It is possible a revolutionary, during a war, if preucupar with books on flowers and birds, instead of doing research on the battles, tactics to be used on the opponents, studying their weaknesses, if preucupando with the facts that will occur in future battles?
13-Pulling Marylcian because no other count, opposes, or questions about the rapid rise policy of Slaine to power?
14 It was very convenient and easy Barouhcruz have accepted Slaine?

[Sinestra]

Im not sure why people are calling Slaine's action Genocide, cause as of right now they are not. However, given his current state of mind its clear he is not doing this with pure intentions anymore. His actions could very well lead to Genocide. Does anyone think that him carving out a new territory on earth, would leave room for Terrans, not likely,

My problem with Slaine is i feel he is acting like petulant child with too much power. Not to mention iv always found his action to be a high form of treason. He does not know how to weld the power that has been handed to him responsibly. The way his plans are proceeding right now there will be a great loss of life, earths military is getting ready to get their assess handed to them.

Too be clear Vers has no claim of earth at all, it is not their planet. Vers is unable to solve their own problems so the best choice is the invasion and seizing of another planets resources through war. Selyum would not and will not e too pleased with this new Slaine and he even knows it himself, which is why he questions what she would think of him now. He will also have to worry about rebellious factions (as he stated) trying to stop him. Plus his lying to Lemrina will have dire consequences when she find out and she will.

If the earth forces find that they can not win this war, i would be in favor of scorched earth. Leave nothing for enemy, make no mistake without earths resources Vers is doomed. I for one would rather destroy majority of the earth than to leave it to the enemy.

Slaines mental stability which seems to be going downhill will be the end of him.

I loved hearing Yuki call Slaine the piece of shit that shot her little brother lol. I can see her trying to kill Slaine on her own.

[leelee85]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Im not sure why people are calling Slaine's action Genocide, cause as of right now they are not. However, given his current state of mind its clear he is not doing this with pure intentions anymore. His actions could very well lead to Genocide. Does anyone think that him carving out a new territory on earth, would leave room for Terrans, not likely,

My problem with Slaine is i feel he is acting like petulant child with too much power. Not to mention iv always found his action to be a high form of treason. He does not know how to weld the power that has been handed to him responsibly. The way his plans are proceeding right now there will be a great loss of life, earths military is getting ready to get their assess handed to them.

Too be clear Vers has no claim of earth at all, it is not their planet. Vers is unable to solve their own problems so the best choice is the invasion and seizing of another planets resources through war. Selyum would not and will not e too pleased with this new Slaine and he even knows it himself, which is why he questions what she would think of him now. He will also have to worry about rebellious factions (as he stated) trying to stop him. Plus his lying to Lemrina will have dire consequences when she find out and she will.

If the earth forces find that they can not win this war, i would be in favor of scorched earth. Leave nothing for enemy, make no mistake without earths resources Vers is doomed. I for one would rather destroy majority of the earth than to leave it to the enemy.

Slaines mental stability which seems to be going downhill will be the end of him.

I loved hearing Yuki call Slaine the piece of shit that shot her little brother lol. I can see her trying to kill Slaine on her own.

So bottom line is somebody needs to bring him back to earth and sanity

[foxbox360]

What does the captain lady mean when she said about giving up on the martians?

[monster]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Why? Why should he place that degree of trust in the Earth side?

Because of what he knows of the Martian side.

The one time he clearly helped them out, it resulted in a tense confrontation between him and an Earth soldier, which in turn led to him getting shot out of the sky and captured/interrogated by Cruhteo.

The Earth side certainly didn't seem very grateful for how he helped them defeat Femi. Rather than gratefulness, or even simple eagerness to add him and his "bat" as an ally, the Earth side acted with suspicion towards him. However legitimate that suspicion may or may not be, it's only natural it would cause Slaine to be very leery of trying to ally with the Earth side. In his own mind, he may even think it's not an option at all.

And whose fault was that? Like I said, he should actually try this time to make an alliance. It involves introducing himself first, not making demands just because he saved them in a battle.

It makes his decisions understandable, at least from a pragmatic perspective. His decisions probably aren't the best ones he could have made, but given a variety of factors and circumstances, I can understand why he made the decisions that he did.

Being understandable doesn't really mean much.

For example, it is understandable for a kid who has only been taught violence to commit violence, but just because it's understandable (and sad), it doesn't mean that we should overlook his actions.

At the very least, unlike that hypothetical kid, Slaine could've made a more informed decision.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by foxbox360

What does the captain lady mean when she said about giving up on the martians?

Mistranslation, she meant they are underestimating them. Cause they are winning one Knight at a time. Welp! As seen in this episode Slain emphasizes on teamwork.

Captain doesn't understand why the Deucalion is not sent in the front lines. I can see where the military leaders are coming from.

The Duecalion and Inaho are best at Asymmetric warfare. Due to the fact each Martian Kats have different tech.

On Slaine I'm beginning to to think the reason he is confused beside Stockholm syndrome is because he still has issues with his father, his real one.

Dr. Troyard abandons everything on Earth for the chance at Aldnoah research. Whether it yielded results we don't know.

I imagine Dr. Troyard is a neglectful father who values his research more than his son.

Slaine barely remembers Earth. By bringing him to Mars his father rendered him stateless. One who does not know where he belongs. Unlike Rayet who made her choice, Slaine just went with flow.


Mind you I'm also beginning to suspect Lemerina is not a legitimate heir of the Vers royalty. I don't mean being a bastard.

It is very suspect Sazzbaum having custody of a spare heir. Asseylum was born after the second emperor died. Lemerina was born after Asseylum was born.

Dr. Troyard from Sazzbaum's description is not an engineer but a medical doctor.

What if Troyard conspired with Sazzbaum to create a contender to the throne?

[foxbox360]

How will team Earth get out of the mess they in, a unified Aldnoah corp. Will Inaho use his Odin's eye to the fullest?

[SPARTAN 119]

Personally, I almost wonder, given the whole NTR incident last episode, if Slaine's final step in descending into evil might be

Spoiler for Speculation:

completely abandoning any hope of hooking up with Asseylum and instead seeing her as an obstacle to his power, and trying to "dispose" of her. If Slaine doesn't try this, I get the feeling Lemrina might.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by SPARTAN 119

Personally, I almost wonder, given the whole NTR incident last episode, if Slaine's final step in descending into evil might be

Spoiler for Speculation:

completely abandoning any hope of hooking up with Asseylum and instead seeing her as an obstacle to his power, and trying to "dispose" of her. If Slaine doesn't try this, I get the feeling Lemrina might.

If he does that, dude will get promoted to Most Hated Douchebag in Anime Ever. He's probably currently second place, right after Suzaku Kururugi, but that kind of dick move is exactly what he needs to surpass him.

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by SPARTAN 119

Personally, I almost wonder, given the whole NTR incident last episode, if Slaine's final step in descending into evil might be

Spoiler for Speculation:

completely abandoning any hope of hooking up with Asseylum and instead seeing her as an obstacle to his power, and trying to "dispose" of her. If Slaine doesn't try this, I get the feeling Lemrina might.

He's most likely just going to keep her hidden away in the garden. The "birds in the cage" scene alludes to that. Lemrina can't do anything even if she's aware of Asseylum's recovery. A bit of "plot demands it" has to happen for them to meet. If anything, I see her helping Asseylum escape. It serves her goals either way.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by SPARTAN 119

Personally, I almost wonder, given the whole NTR incident last episode, if Slaine's final step in descending into evil might be

Spoiler for Speculation:

completely abandoning any hope of hooking up with Asseylum and instead seeing her as an obstacle to his power, and trying to "dispose" of her. If Slaine doesn't try this, I get the feeling Lemrina might.

If that were to happen(I am not saying it would), expect the Slaine fandom to defend his actions there too.