Avatar Legend of Korra

[Gintokifan22]

Originally Posted by Yuukio

Am I stupid to think that a couple of lightning benders would be enough to cripple the super mecha tank?

I think Lava bending would do a better job destroying the thing.

I also think that's what they are setting it up for, notice how Bolin wasn't in that blast with the others? I can't imagine him taking this very well, his girlfriend and all hid loved ones were killed. Now of course they won't really be dead, I think Su and Korra did some thing to keep them all safe from that Attack but I don't think Bolin will see that. I could see him going in rage / revenge mode and tearing that thing apart with every thing he's got. I could also see him learning Metal bending, he's never delt with this type of situation, I could see him going from crying a few tears to being really pissed off and wanting revenge.

Edit;

Never mind, scratch that idea. Seems Bolin was in that place with the others and saved them all.
Stupid Nick, spoiling the most thrilling ending away like that. Shame on them ><

I still think Bolin's Lava bending is going to be the only thing defeat those guy's, Lightning bending will only be able to attack one at A time but Lava bending if used right can melt the entire army. I think they'll all try there best effort to defeat them but really? What can Airbending do against those things? Earth bending is another good one that has a shot at them I guess too, the other elements not so much.

[Guido]

Hi, Legend of Korra is broadcasted in my country exactly one season behind the current one in USA.

Today, the last chapter for Book Three got aired, and while I got mixed reviews at how the animation staff executed the whole episode, nevertheless, I liked attention and detail they invested for Ginora's coming-of-age and annointment ceremony for the end to Book Three's season finale.

I read Book Three for Legend of Korra continually didn't do well with the TV ratings, forcing the producers to broadcast the last five episodes into internet streaming.

I'm of the opinion that Book Three didn't do well because:
1. Couldn't top the quality and catharsis delivered during and after Book 2: Spirits came,
2. Book 3 main antagonist, Zaheer, to me felt like a rehash version from Book 1 antagonist, Amon. I comment upon this because both desire to bring forth a revolution of worldwide proportions attempting to overthrow the current status quo of the world, even if their goals are so different. Hence, Zaheer, didn't bring anything new on the table that was already served by antagonists introduced during the previous seasons before him.

Ultimately, Book Three was interesting giving new exposition to some of the characters supporting the main cast like, Lin and introducing for the first time into the series her sister Suyin. Nonetheless, it's pacing and execution was mostly generic for the most part, although watching the heartlessness and brutality of the Red Lotus members displayed on screen, at least kept me interested and satisfied that the quality for each season villains hadn't dropped.

The only thing that I'm enraged is the fact that last year when Book 2 was airing the TV station stopped airing the episodes just two episodes away for the season two finale.
I really want to go back and watch those two last episodes.

[Random14]

Yeah, the giant mech was a bit sudden. The "interrogation" at the end was more annoying. Its not like any of them are mean enough to beat the answers out of Baatar, Jr. Especially with his mother there, when before Baatar was completely on board with Kuvira's brutal campaign, so a scolding from Su isn't going to change his mind. And they have no idea how to be careful about letting the hostage talk too much, specifically the part where Kuvira asked if everyone is there, although her tracking the signal was kind of convenient.

And so the Republic forces stay redshirts to the end. After seeing their defense mustered, its all for nothing in the face of a giant robot. How much resources does Kuvira have to build something like that in secret? Is that where all the Zaofu domes went? Bolin was an idiot, only there for PR, but even Varrick wasn't in on the design phase.

It would be nice if Bolin could just sink the thing in lava, but considering his track record so far this season, where how he couldn't even melt down regular mecha, they dodged his attacks, I doubt he'll be that useful for the finale. He'd probably have to create a really large lava pit, and not sure he could make one that fast and they would probably worry about making that much lava so near to Republic City.

Kuvira is just mean, or rather ruthless, since she gave up on Baatar fast. Well, Baatar for the whole city isn't exactly a fair trade, but still. She's gotten so far mainly because Korra was so messed up this season. I hope we finally get to see Korra go all-out super powerful Avatar state. She's never really reached that point, whereas Aang came close a few times before his series finale. Not sure what else she's waiting for, it would have been better to engage the giant robot before it reached the city. Well, just as long as we don't get another giant monster fight, after how stupid Book 2 was (aside from the Wan flashback episode).

[Gintokifan22]

If Bolin's an idiot for not seeing what she's building, than Zhu Li must be an even bigger one, she was putting it together and even had blue prints for it, she still had no idea what Kuriva was doing.

Ask for his track records, he's been around people that he doesn't want to harm with his Lava bending, Varrick those refuges they helped. I assume he was trying to fight with it without hurting others in the process.

Though times like this he might not have a choice now, this time it's an all out battle to save the city and inasent by standards who live in that place. Last couple of fights was protect himself and people around him but this is a bigger picture.

Hey'll have to turn up the heat now in order to protect the city and the ones he loves, even if means damage or slightly hurting others around him.

[VTHokiePride]

That was the most anti-climactic battle I've seen. Both armies lined up ready to fight and a huge gundam appears for Kuvira. The army could've split into groups and set up positions in the city while the airbenders, flying mechs, and gliders could have harassed the mech and possibly launched a raid to get inside of it and blow it up from the inside. Would've liked that instead of seeing the President throw in the towel.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Random14

How much resources does Kuvira have to build something like that in secret? Is that where all the Zaofu domes went? Bolin was an idiot, only there for PR, but even Varrick wasn't in on the design phase.

Varrick wasn't in on the design phase because the idea for the giant robot probably didn't come up until after they decided to make a giant spirit cannon. A giant robot like that would be pretty impratcial if not for being a way to transport and use their super weapon

Originally Posted by VTHokiePride

That was the most anti-climactic battle I've seen. Both armies lined up ready to fight and a huge gundam appears for Kuvira. The army could've split into groups and set up positions in the city while the airbenders, flying mechs, and gliders could have harassed the mech and possibly launched a raid to get inside of it and blow it up from the inside. Would've liked that instead of seeing the President throw in the towel.

They wouldn't have won and the casualties would have been staggering. The cannon has enough range and power to hit any spot in the city and destroy everything inbetween it and the target. Kuvira also has no problem with collateral damage. They try to hide in the city she'll just pick them off from outside. And since most of the republic lacks long range weapons, that means they would have to meet the mech out in the open field to get close enough to damage it... The only weapons they have with long range are the slow moving ships that are easy targets for her.

And you also have to remember they aren't just fighting one giant robot, but a giant robot backed up by an army that can rival their own. To get a chance to fight the mech you have to go through the army first... and even if you DO take down the mech, it won't matter if she already managed to use it to wipe out half the army... if half the army is gone, then her army can just finish the job the old fashion way.

Also the flying mech suits were not operational yet; they needed more time. That's why they went to the factory to try and get a couple of them online.

Raiko made a very rational decision.

Originally Posted by james0246

You're misunderstanding my words just a bit. It's probably my fault for not properly explaining what I meant by threat (which harkens back to something I wrote here several weeks ago).

Not an unfair assessment. Kuvira is pretty "meh" as far as villians go... That i would not be so quick to put her below unaloq. As far personal threats go, She seems to be as every bit a good metal bender as he is a water bender.

Originally Posted by Gintokifan22

If Bolin's an idiot for not seeing what she's building, than Zhu Li must be an even bigger one, she was putting it together and even had blue prints for it, she still had no idea what Kuriva was doing.

Zhu Li didn't have the blue prints to the mech. She was only assigned to work on the cannon. I don't really know why people find it so unbelievable that she could keep the mech a secret. I mean how exactly should anyone have found out about it? If they were building the thing in a secured factory somewhere, the ONLY way anyone would know about it is if someone turned traitor. Heck even in the modern age we have to work hard to figure out what's going inside of another country's military

[Mach56gs]

In defense of Kuvira:

She presents and represents a very dangerous ideal, scarier than Fire lord Ozai, Zaheer and the rest of 'em. For rizzles.

Her sanctions are guided not by her ideas, but by rational pros/cons. To her, all of this is necessary to ensure a brighter future for the Earth Nation (Empire now I guess). She's doing this in the name of progress and advancement, perfectly highlighted by her use of Spirit vines, which everyone can connect to nuclear power.

She's taken the civilian losses and the brutality of her "re-education" camps and all of her wrongdoings, and to her its a necessary evil that benefits everyone in the end.

It's classic Kant vs. Jon Stewart Mill.

Korra and gang represent Kant and hold morality to be standard and unchanging.

Kuvira is acting under Utilitarian thought, which considers morality as an equation, and whatever results in the most good is the best choice, no matter what is sacrificed or required to occur.

Spoiler for Example/Spoiler:

A famous M.A.S.H episode explains Utilitarianism very easily: a woman strangles her crying baby on the bus in order to save all of the occupants from capture and certain death from the Vietcong forces. Saves everyone, but tragic and repulsive to think of.

The example can be repeated in various forms: Would you sacrifice ten men to save your mom? Would you kill your mom to save a millionaire who plans to donate millions/billions to aid to a suffering country? The true utilitarian would let their mum die. (You can complain about the circumstances, but just pretend their rigid.)

It's a typical scenario where a villain justifies wrongdoing or murder as a means to save a race or a galaxy or whatever. You see it all the time in films, games, shows and what not, which may get people turned off from it.

But it's a real and scary theme that exists in the real world, and is not some fantasy. Terrible people and rulers used it to justify genocides and holocausts, to create a "greater nation" or a race of "perfect beings"...And Kuvira truly follows it without emotion, as Bataar is expendable too, no matter how much he means to her.

Who cares about a the rest of the previous villains who fought for selfish and twisted reasons. Kuvira truly believed she has the moral high ground, and has the best intentions for a whole nation if people. In her mind, once she is victorious, fifty years later everyone from all nations would hail her as a hero, as a "Great Uniter".

That's why she's such a threat and a potent bad-guy. A perfect way to end the series too: The avatar had to stop progress, for progress's sakes.

[HandofFate]

I thought it was funny that Korra's solution was to propose to Bataar and live together with him forever. Korra wouldn't make that bad a wife..

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by sayde

Not sure why this giant mech is such a huge threat. Bend the earth underneath it and it should fall. Metal bend it, and it should break. And now that Korra has regained control over the avatar state, I wonder whats stopping her from simply steam rolling over Kuvira, her army, and her obnoxiously large mech. Guess I just have a distorted perspective of how powerful the avatar state is supposed to be.

No you don't. It's just been conveniently nerfed for plot reasons. Considering the feats of Roku, Kyoshi, and finale-Aang pulled off in the avatar state, Korra should be able to defeat that mech with ease. It's just too unwieldy when going against super powerful bending.

Once again, though, you don't even need Korra. Bolin could just open up a pit of lava beneath one of its legs...

That's been my biggest gripe with The Legend of Korra all the way through. For the most part, the characters are enjoyable and each is unique, the world is awesome, the plot is usually pretty good too. None of those things are perfect, but all pretty damn good. The problem lies in the power scales. Convenient Korra nerfing, Jinora ex machina, etc, has been such a consistent and annoying detraction from fully enjoying what's otherwise been a really good cartoon.

[Mach56gs]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

No you don't. It's just been conveniently nerfed for plot reasons. Considering the feats of Roku, Kyoshi, and finale-Aang pulled off in the avatar state, Korra should be able to defeat that mech with ease. It's just too unwieldy when going against super powerful bending.

Once again, though, you don't even need Korra. Bolin could just open up a pit of lava beneath one of its legs...

That's been my biggest gripe with The Legend of Korra all the way through. For the most part, the characters are enjoyable and each is unique, the world is awesome, the plot is usually pretty good too. None of those things are perfect, but all pretty damn good. The problem lies in the power scales. Convenient Korra nerfing, Jinora ex machina, etc, has been such a consistent and annoying detraction from fully enjoying what's otherwise been a really good cartoon.

Dunno, I only think Korra could pull it off.

Bolin would have to make a bonafide lake of lava where there isn't any present. Tall order, guys. His lavabending powers seem linked to proximity towards, well, lava. We saw previously how his lava froze quickly when they escaped the boarder. It's powerful, sure, but I doubt he could make a pool big enough and deep enough for the mech to sit in and get stuck in. Seems that Kuvira would just march on. With a red hot leg or two. Into the ocean. The scale of the mech is just so massive, Bolin's lava would be a puddle at best. Could trip up the mech or stick her down for a moment, though...... Which is what I think will occur.

As for lightning, the mech might be wearing rubber soles :P. In all seriousness, Kuvira controls it through metal-bending. Doesn't seem there are critical electronics that the electricity would fry, and it's safe to assume Kuvira and Co are safe from the lightning because they ARE wearing insulation. The cannon.... Why would you make that thing go critical right outside the city? Remember, you'd be making all of the spirit vines go critical AT THE SAME TIME. Risk blowing up the entire bloody eastern coast with everybody? Not a wise decision.

The mech seems pretty formidable. Though it's firing position is pretty corny....

[Nayrael]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Though this isn't to say Kuvira is a great villain, just that its wrong to call her weak because she needs an army and other tools. Kuvira's a poor villian because she's too one dimensional. She's a pretty good threat, but she's not very interesting. Zaheer was easily the best, followed by Amon... Not sure about Unaloq, he was also a very boring and uninteresting villain too.

IMO, all of the villains in LoK are underdeveloped. As a matter of fact, the whole narrative style here is old-fashioned: we follow the Main Characters as they fight the villains and that's it. The villains don't get much time for themselves, so we don't get to learn much about their past, why did they make the decisions they did, character development, sympathy... they are just big bads who need to be taken down, with a few informations about their characters here and there. Really, one entire episode focused solely on the season's big bad would have done wonders.
Yes, Ozai was worse... but the thing is, he was supposed to be stereotypically evil. But Amon, Tarrlok, Unalaq, Zaheer and Kuvira were all conceived as anti-villains at best or failed heroes at worst.

Which is a shame: each one of them had a LOT of potential to be both a good villain and a deep character. Unfortunately, looking at the fact that Ozai did no better even though he was the big bad for 60+ episodes, I fear that the authors are just not good enough with handling villains, even if they are good at coming up with them.

Still, the disappointment for Kuvira is legit: she is the FINAL boss and was conceived as a character who resembles Korra in many ways. But in the end, she ended up being just a random Evil Overlord, almost all of her potential left unused. It would have been fine if she was a big bad in an earlier season, but not here.

Originally Posted by Yuukio

Am I stupid to think that a couple of lightning benders would be enough to cripple the super mecha tank?

If you go to such lengths that you build such a mecha, you probably protected it from the obvious threats.

[DMurphy]

Originally Posted by Mach56gs

Dunno, I only think Korra could pull it off.

Bolin would have to make a bonafide lake of lava where there isn't any present. Tall order, guys. His lavabending powers seem linked to proximity towards, well, lava. We saw previously how his lava froze quickly when they escaped the boarder.

I don't think that actually has anything to do with the specifics of his lavabending powers. I mean, when we saw him use it in Book 3, he definitely was only able to manipulate already pre-existing lava, that much is definite. But he's acquired earth-melting abilities now, and I'm pretty sure his lava freezing quickly isn't to do with him, specifically.

I think it might be to do with what types of rock are being bent. Not all lava is alike, after all. I think that so far we've mostly seen Bolin bending felsic and andesitic lava, which solidifies faster due to being more viscous: Most of his bending has taken place next to large metalbent constructs, so it's not crazy to assume that he's bending in areas that are high in metals like aluminium, iron and magnesium, which would produce thicker felsic and andesitic lavas, and would also require less effort on Bolin's part, since those lavas form at lower temperatures.

Ghazan, meanwhile, mostly bends lava out of mountains. We see him bend lava most prolifically in the Air Temple and the crystal caves, both of which would be prime for producing mafic and ultramafic lavas (also high in magnesium and iron, but much lower in aluminium and silica). These flow more easily (Ghazan's lava definitely flowed a lot more easily than Bolin's), cool down slower, and are much, much hotter (Ghazan's lava is so hot it can functionally self-replicate by melting rock around it without his involvement).

The only direct point of comparison we have is that they both bend lava in or near Zaofu. When Ghazan does this, his lava is actually a lot more like Bolin's: It doesn't melt the rock around him, he seems to have to concentrate to keep it hot, and it cools down very easily (all it takes is Zaheer creating a gust of wind and it cools immediately.)

...

...

Oh god. I just spent five minutes writing about lava types, I - I have to go.

[Mach56gs]

Originally Posted by DMurphy

I don't think that actually has anything to do with the specifics of his lavabending powers. I mean, when we saw him use it in Book 3, he definitely was only able to manipulate already pre-existing lava, that much is definite. But he's acquired earth-melting abilities now, and I'm pretty sure his lava freezing quickly isn't to do with him, specifically.

I think it might be to do with what types of rock are being bent. Not all lava is alike, after all. I think that so far we've mostly seen Bolin bending felsic and andesitic lava, which solidifies faster due to being more viscous: Most of his bending has taken place next to large metalbent constructs, so it's not crazy to assume that he's bending in areas that are high in metals like aluminium, iron and magnesium, which would produce thicker felsic and andesitic lavas, and would also require less effort on Bolin's part, since those lavas form at lower temperatures.

Ghazan, meanwhile, mostly bends lava out of mountains. We see him bend lava most prolifically in the Air Temple and the crystal caves, both of which would be prime for producing mafic and ultramafic lavas (also high in magnesium and iron, but much lower in aluminium and silica). These flow more easily (Ghazan's lava definitely flowed a lot more easily than Bolin's), cool down slower, and are much, much hotter (Ghazan's lava is so hot it can functionally self-replicate by melting rock around it without his involvement).

The only direct point of comparison we have is that they both bend lava in or near Zaofu. When Ghazan does this, his lava is actually a lot more like Bolin's: It doesn't melt the rock around him, he seems to have to concentrate to keep it hot, and it cools down very easily (all it takes is Zaheer creating a gust of wind and it cools immediately.)

...

...

Oh god. I just spent five minutes writing about lava types, I - I have to go.

Well, yeah, but Bolin can't acquire maefic-saturated lava. Too deep in the earth. He could try and bend metal into lava, but that has yet to be clarified as possible or canon. For now most lava-bending is felsic in nature....

And what I was trying to draw on was that the scale of the lava-bending would have to be immense. Sure, Bolin could create pools of lava, but their depth and scale haven't been shown to be that much of a threat to the building-mech that Kuvira operates.

As I said though, it could be used to gum up her movement and hold her in place, which may factor into Team Avatar's plan to take out the mech in general. But as the sole method of taking out Kuvira? Not very convincing.

[james0246]

I imagine the mecha will have platinum or a platinum-alloy casing, and something so big will either be lightning resistant or simply too massive to be affected by the amount of lightning benders present. I still say a massive air raid would produce the best results, but whatever the case the mecha shouldn't fall too easily.

[ellifeedn]

I think the mecha is made from the Zaofu domes that were stripped down.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by Mach56gs

Well, yeah, but Bolin can't acquire maefic-saturated lava. Too deep in the earth. He could try and bend metal into lava, but that has yet to be clarified as possible or canon. For now most lava-bending is felsic in nature....

And what I was trying to draw on was that the scale of the lava-bending would have to be immense. Sure, Bolin could create pools of lava, but their depth and scale haven't been shown to be that much of a threat to the building-mech that Kuvira operates.

As I said though, it could be used to gum up her movement and hold her in place, which may factor into Team Avatar's plan to take out the mech in general. But as the sole method of taking out Kuvira? Not very convincing.

Wouldn't a fairly shallow pool the width of one of the mech's feet do the job? It's foot will sink and melt in the pool and then the whole thing would topple over.

[blakstealth]

Originally Posted by ellifeedn

I think the mecha is made from the Zaofu domes that were stripped down.

I think you're right.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by ellifeedn

I think the mecha is made from the Zaofu domes that were stripped down.

Undoubtedly. But, we already know that platinum is, for whatever reason, the only known metal that can not be bent (or at least the only one directly mentioned). So, I expect the metal to be a part of the giant mecha if for no other reason than to protect the behemoth from other metal benders.

Then again, I guess the machine could be run by dozens of metal benders scattered throughout the mecha keeping it together and preventing the machine from being un-bent.

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Wouldn't a fairly shallow pool the width of one of the mech's feet do the job? It's foot will sink and melt in the pool and then the whole thing would topple over.

Bolin would be better served to attempt to turn the mecha itself into lava rather than trying to open holes underneath the mecha in order to attempt to melt the beast.

Originally Posted by Mach56gs

Kuvira is acting under Utilitarian thought, which considers morality as an equation, and whatever results in the most good is the best choice, no matter what is sacrificed or required to occur.

I don't know if that is really true. I do not claim to know much about Utilitarianism, but nothing about what Kuvira does is intended to maximize pleasure or minimize pain for anyone, not even really herself. As it is, many of her political issues have no real bearing on the function, power or pleasure of her state, in fact many of her actions have done more to harm her case and her nations standing in the world. Her interment camps serve no real purpose other than to kill her opponents and eventually piss off the other nations, she rules the majority of her own people through fear and intimidation, and her stance on Republic City makes little to no sense considering the vast majority of the people living in the Earth Nation have never even known the land of Republic City as being anything other than the headquarters of the International Republic (it should be noted that the only person we have ever heard complain about Republic City's presence in the Earth Nation was the former Earth Queen, and she was a despot in her own right). Unless it turns out that Aang literally stole the land from the native Earth citizens (which I highly doubt), Kuvira seems to be fighting over a legitimate property deal that was made before she was even born...it would be like a person from Maryland wanting Washington D.C. back simply because once upon a time the land was part of the state/colony.

I do agree that Kuvira wants stories to be written of her as the Great Uniter, but I doubt she is really looking at her actions as being anything other than her own personal desires (which may be part of utilitarianism and I simply do not know). And I have to say, it certainly doesn't help that Kuvira spends the majority of her time smirking. It's hard to see her as being objective when she takes such pleasure out of beating down her opponents.

Then again, as others have commented, it is hard to get a read on Kuvira's motives simply because she is so underwritten. I will say, though, that Amon and Unalaq used similar PR machines to get public/fringe approval for their heinous actions, and they were eventually revealed to be selfish megalomaniacs. If anything, Zaheer was the only real villain that had any real, albeit somewhat contrived, philosophical underpinnings to his actions, all the others were eventually revealed to be self-serving monsters, and I am expecting Kuvira end similarly.

[Psyco Diver]

Sadly I think they'll do something cliché like have the airbenders take rope and fly around it's legs while the earthbenders raise the ground to trip it and the fire benders will keep her army distracted. Then Korra and her will have a epic battle. In the end something will cause the cannon to fire or overload, Korra will sacrifice herself to save the day and everyone will think she's dead but somehow gets reconnected to the past avatars

[durack]

Originally Posted by Psyco Diver

Sadly I think they'll do something cliché like have the airbenders take rope and fly around it's legs while the earthbenders raise the ground to trip it and the fire benders will keep her army distracted. Then Korra and her will have a epic battle. In the end something will cause the cannon to fire or overload, Korra will sacrifice herself to save the day and everyone will think she's dead but somehow gets reconnected to the past avatars

I hope you are wrong but this sounds extremely plausible...