2009-07-24, 19:48 | Link #221 | ||||
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2009-07-24, 20:30 | Link #222 |
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I'd also like to add that a word that means something in real life could mean something entirely different in the context of a manga. An example of this would be the word 'pirate'. A pirate is defined as 'One who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commission from a sovereign nation.', and we know that this isn't how Oda uses it (Luffy n friends do not steal; Oda has confirmed that there are 2 types of pirates in the OP world, adventurers and plunderers, whilst the word pirate in the real world only refers to such plunderers). Also words like Chakra (which originated from India) and Shinigami have meanings in their respective mangas which completely differ from their original meaning.
This is why I don't think we should interpret what Oda is trying to mean by using the word haki just yet, as we have too little information as of now.
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2009-07-24, 20:39 | Link #223 | |||
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2009-07-24, 21:09 | Link #224 | ||||
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2009-07-25, 02:59 | Link #225 | |
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My posts on Haki and Ki are based on the word's definition and how it has always been shown in fiction. The definition of the word is unchanged in any of the fictional references, its only the extent of exaggeration. Exaggeration is common in fiction, anything that suspends belief or is impossible in the real world is an exaggeration. Fiction uses amplified effects of something that happens in the real world to emphasize the point. Haki is amplified, exaggerated in fiction to show the extent of how ambitious and strong willed the characters are.
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2009-07-25, 03:07 | Link #226 | |
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2009-07-25, 04:34 | Link #227 | |||
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Every universe has its own "logic". The idea that someone's "willpower" is strong enough to influence arrows and people's DF's powers is unsubstantiated in the OP universe. And frankly, I think it would make for illogical plotholes later. |
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2009-07-25, 04:49 | Link #228 | ||
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And do you have any proof that it is not willpower but internal energy? Actually if you've bothered to read more of my posts, you'll find out that that 'internal energy' is Ki. And Ki is a person's spirit, will, emotion, mood and health, in other words, the entire person. Your emotions, will and intention is your drive, it is the energy for you to accomplish something. Why does Goku become stronger when he is angry? Why does Kenshiro become stronger with more sadness? Why does Domon become stronger when he calms himself? What is the power of love? Why is courage power? Why do Japanese say 'omoi no chikara', 'power of feelings'? It is because in the Japanese culture, energy comes from your emotions and will, that is what Ki is about. I'll copy and paste this one again: Quote:
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2009-07-25, 05:38 | Link #230 | ||||||
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And although this reasoning hits closer to home, i.e. the OP universe, it still does not explain properly why there are only a few people who can have "the king's haki": the haki of the chosen. That itself already implies that it's some special ability/power from within that exceeds the explanation of "will". |
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2009-07-25, 05:56 | Link #231 |
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The reason I post so much is because I learnt and understand Japanese and I'm explaining to people who don't about what Ki means.
Since there are some people who are not taking my words, Ill just leave it to other people: How fundamental Ki can be: http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/...our-%E6%B0%97/ Ki in various perspectives: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi The East and the West view the world differently: http://ci.nii.ac.jp/naid/110000486932/en The Japanese use Ki in just about everything, it is the fundamental element of everything.
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2009-07-25, 06:13 | Link #232 | |||||
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First line third link: Quote:
If nothing else, your links only strengthen my point. Quote:
Last edited by DSDSSDWE; 2009-07-25 at 06:36. Reason: Oops, was actually the third link, not the second link :) |
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2009-07-25, 06:33 | Link #233 | |
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The third link is to tell you that you do not understand what Ki is fundamentally because of your Western perspective.
Do you know that if you read One Piece in Japanese, every time Haki is mentioned, it is simply a part of sentences as a normal verb or noun? It is spoken just like how people use the word in real life. Haki is the spirit and mood that the characters have, the extent of the power it has doesn't matter. Ki is your mind and spirit, that is why it is called the energy embodied by the mind and spirit. It changes with your mood and acts with your will. The intentions and emotions behind the Ki lead to different variations of Ki, which is why it has 11,000+ words based on it. Quote:
The links are there to show how different our perspectives are.
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2009-07-25, 06:42 | Link #234 | |
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And that's why I said you need to differentiate between "something that controls" and "something that is". I'm not a gun even though I can control/influence a gun. Will(power) that influences some kind of energy does not equal that energy equaling will(power). |
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2009-07-25, 06:53 | Link #235 |
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気力(kiryoku): Willpower, energy.
気: Ki 力: Power Willpower is the power of Ki, the strength of a person's Ki comes from his willpower. Willpower is the energy among other factors like emotions that makes up a person's Ki.
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2009-07-25, 07:07 | Link #236 | |
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Also we're not concerned with its (real life) definition as much as its application in the OP universe. Besides, that definition doesn't imply "energy" as in the energy to change (inanimate) things, but talking about "emotions". That's obviously different. |
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2009-07-25, 07:17 | Link #237 | ||
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2009-07-25, 07:24 | Link #238 |
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If you want an actual discussion, I urge you again to read my posts.
The 1st and 3rd links do not refute Ki being will. Actually if you do a search on the thread, I've never once said Ki being willpower, I've always been saying that Ki is will. Will is indeed one of the meanings of Ki. And since you started saying Ki is willpower, I brought in 'Kiryoku' which actually means 'willpower'. For real life definitions vs fictional definition: For example, if there's a character powered by courage just like the way Haki powers characters in One Piece. Do people differentiate the meanings of courage in real life and in fiction? Courage is courage, it is the character's fearlessness and bravery. Haki is the same, Haki in fiction is the same as Haki in real life, just like courage is the same in fiction and real life. Haki is just another word used in everyday sentences, it has no difference in fiction or real life. Is beauty different in fiction and real life? What about intelligence? Haki is just like all these words, they are the same in fiction and real life.
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2009-07-25, 07:44 | Link #239 | |||
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And you are correct in saying that I've incorrectly used "willpower" to mean "will", which is why I've changed it from willpower to will a couple of posts into this discussion, before you've said this. Quote:
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2009-07-25, 10:36 | Link #240 | |||
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Asian medicine are said to regulate Ki simply because when you are sick(byoki), you take medicine to become healthy(genki). Gaogaigar is powered by 'Yuuki', as long as Guy has Yuuki, he will continue to fight. Kenshiro and Raoh's source of power is their 'Touki', their Touki allows them to continue fighting. Translate those words into english and you get: Gaogaigar is powered by courage, as long as Guy has courage, he will continue to fight. Kenshiro and Raoh's source of power is their fighting spirit, their fighting spirit allows them to continue fighting. Haki sounds and works exactly like those 2 examples of Ki. Gaogaigar is a Super Robot running on Guy's courage, Raoh's fighting spirit can crack the earth he's standing on. Is their courage and fighting spirit different from the real world's? No, they mean exactly the same, the fictional effects are just there to emphasize the point. Honestly I doubt you actually read what I posted carefully. You have no idea what Ki is at all and you cannot grasp the concept.
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