Higurashi Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by FubaredByAnime

Well now that the sub is out and anyone can pretty much watch to find out what happens, let me be the first (and probably only) one to ask Sushi or KJ this question based off Sushi's commentary of the episode.

Spoiler:

Can you give a quick lowdown of what it was we missed? It definitely sounds interesting. Especially the human meat incident. I love a sick thrill. Reminds me of the Wendy's "finger in the chili". They lost me as a customer for a few months.

Spoiler:

Not a quote on quote translation, but something close to it. All the following are said through Mion's words at that scene:

1. Hinamizawa was formerly known as Onigafuchi

2. The residents of Onigafuchi believed strongly that they inherited demons' blood and considered themselves to be more noble than others

3. However, with the opening of Japan by Commodore Matthew C. Perry, the times in Japan changed dramatically. With the new Meiji government's policy of doing away with the old and introducing newer ideas for rapid modernization, Onigafuchi's name was changed to Hinamizawa.

4. As Japan sped through modernization, it extended its military might in the name of "rich country, strong military." Spanning military victories in the Sino-Japanese War and the Russo-Japanese War, Japan entered into Pacific War (Pacific Front of WWII).

5*. By this time, Onigafuchi's reverence as a sacred village was in ruins. Villagers and residents from this area were frowned upon as hinin. Slanderous and unsubtantiated rumors about Onigafuchi being an isolated hamlet run by criminals and low-lives became the standard.

6*. People were discriminated for just being from Onigafuchi/Hinamizawa. Parents in the outlying areas told their children that residents of Hinamizawa have a disease. Kids who were touched by children of Hinamizawa cried and parents would actually put salt onto the area where he/she were touched.

7*. Adults would tell their children to never go to Hinamizawa as they would disappear as an Onikakushi, chopped up and eaten. They would tell unsubstantiated horror stories that residents of Hinamizawa lived through a famine in the past by eating human corpses.

8*. Such slanderous rumors did not end within childrens' world. Companies refused to hire people from Onigafuchi. Marriages were also broken; when it was found out that they married a person from Onigafuchi, the other family pressed for an immediate divorce.

[*5~8: These are typical of the burakumin problems that Japan faced/faces since the Meiji Restoration. Residents of blacklisted buraku areas faced/faces huge discrimination, ranging from unemployment and marriage for just being from a certain area. As this is a very sensitive issue, it might be one of the reasons why this section was not explained in the anime]

9. Even under the propaganda slogans of "defending this nation as one" during the war, people in Hinamizawa were still discrimated, despite contributing its residents to the war effort.

10. However, the war finally ended in 1945. Men who went off to war returned, but many did not. However, a bright future for Hinamizawa seemed to lie ahead as General MacArthur's GHQ began to implement a new constitution to get rid of social discrimination once and for all (under the Meiji constitution, discrimination was illegal de jure). Residents of Hinamizawa began to work hard to bring back the rich nature of their beloved homeland.

11. One of the persons who contributed much to redeveloping Hinamizawa and amassing immense wealth was Mion's grandfather, Sonozaki Souhei.

12. Souhei was a food and supplies warehouse manager in Harbin during the war. When the end of the war was announced, Souhei schemes with his fellow members and superiors to smuggle canned military food rations back to Japan. Once back in Japan, he made a fortune selling the smuggled canned foods.

13. But Souhei did not use his new found wealth to his own good. He gave all the money that he amassed to his wife, the head of the Sonozaki family.

14. "Let us rebuild Hinamizawa. All the villagers are family. This fortune shall be shared amongst everyone." said Mion's grandmother, Sonozaki Oryou. This is the main reason why Hinamizawa exists as today and why the Sonozaki family has great influence in this area.

15. Using the money, the villagers helped rebuild the stagnating economy of Hinamizawa. Those that succeeded in turn helped others with their new found wealth. The strong bond of Hinamizawa's residents were reinforced through this process.

16. But by the mid 1950s, a change in the wind took place once again. Suspicions and rumors of the "human canned meat" began to spread. Souhei's former superior officer broke out the shocking news that the canned meat that he sold were in fact, human meat. Because of this, the unfounded discrimination of residents of Hinamizawa as demons that devour on human flesh started to flare again.

17. Why would human meat be in canned foods? Wasn't Souhei just a manager of the supplies warehouse? According to his former superior, Souhei was really just a meager private who exterminated mice and got rid of human corpses - a job fit for a lowly social status coming from his residential records.

18. Souhei would later be transferred as a corpse handler to a certain medical unit of the military. But that unit was a dark area of the military whose staff were doing things that were more inhumane that the unfounded rumors of Onigafuchi.

19. People would know this military unit as Unit 731 - the inhumane medical experimentations on human test subjects to create biological weapons. How obnoxious these military people are - they look down upon a resident of Onigafuchi/Hinamizawa just on baseless rumors and bottom-out-of-sight social economic status when they themselves are doing things that are far worse and horrific.

20. Souhei was transferred to a division within that unit where they were studying how to obtain much needed food for its militarymen. Japan was facing a huge problem during the war in providing its servicemen food in their frontlines. Malnutrition lead to loss of concentration and body mechanisms to fight off diseases. The morale to keep on fighting was also in danger. Hence, this division was given the order to find a way to obtain food in the battlefield. At first they studied stealing from locals and creating survival kits on plants and animals of that region. However, they soon lost sight and opened the door of the unthinkable.

21. What is the most readily available source of protein in the battlefield? Yes, you thought right - human corpses. Bodies of the enemy or our own servicemen, it didn't matter. They believed that its servicemen should eat whatever that is available to live out this war. Mion's grandfather would despise them. These men frowned upon him with baseless slanders of coming from a village that ate human corpses. Yet, these men were the ones that went further. "So what if they call me a corpse-eating demon? These men were the real demons. I don't feel subjugated on no matter what they say." said Mion's grandfather.

22. Several samples were made. But these scientists dared not to try out themselves. So they sent some to the front under the name of "alternative meat." The scientists stamped a logo "circle-alt" on these cans so they don't mistakenly eat them themselves. But the servicemen at the fronts loved it.

23. Did Souhei really sell canned foods that were made by human meat? No one knows precisely. Souhei himself denied it firmly to the end. But there were many who were jealous of Hinamizawa's road to rebuilding it's economy. They called us people who were living off of the wealth made by selling human corpses. Once again, Hinamizawa was back to where it was - being discriminated by everyone.

24. Kids of Hinamizawa were once again thrown stones by other children. That's when Mion' grandmother stepped in. She told the children, "if one child throws a stone at you, throw back with two. If two kids throw stones at you, get back at them with four. If eight kids come after you with sticks, you thwart them off with sixteen. If slandered by thirty, you yell back with sixty. And if a thousand tries to get us, we all come out as residents of Hinamizawa." Sonozaki Oryou stepped up as a leader of Hinamizawa.

25. Residents of Hinamizawa formed a strong bond to look after each other. If a child was bullied, they went to the bully's house. If an adult was discriminated, everyone, young and old, went out to voice their opinion. "Piss off a member of Hinamizawa, you're gonna get into deep shit." That was the thought process behind it. That is the exact reason why Kei was saved by the residents of Hinamizawa who ganged up on those three delinquents.

26 onward: as you saw in the anime




This explanation itselves are quite long (as well as touching several sensitive issues). Hence, the Mion's explanation of Hinamizawa's past was rather shortened to demons of Onigafuchi being bullied by others.

[Pellissier]

I've seen that the discussien has quite arisen from yesterday. Meanwhile, I've watched episode 8 three times already.
I won't hook up on any of the theories I've read so far, they all may be more or less believable, but I prefere to keep my brief observations as stand-alone, for now.

1)Rena and Keiichi decide to face Mion. Rena spots Oishi willing to use Keeichi as a bait.

Spoiler:

I liked Rena's whole behaviour. Almost unbelievable if compared to the Rena we got to know in Onikakushi. Actually, I never knew if I had to completely trust in her or not (she may have come paired up with Mion later, after all).

2)Mion's story.

Spoiler:

I've read they left out pieces of the story. Well, I don't consider it as a great fault since after all, time-wise, this episode was completely full.
As for the story, Mion is the heir. Or is that Shion? I totally give up on this matter. The twins are completely equal as for we see them drawn, and they also have the same voice. Every hint of who may be or who may not, would be pure speculation IMHO, with the hints we owe now.
I'll wait for the Meakashi-hen who should fill the holes.
I was surprised by the way, by the supernatural deviation the show took. I mean "I inherited the soul of a Oni", it's not something you expect to hear everyday. It was kind of sudden, made some sense but after all 4 episodes don't seem enough to cover a whole arc. (same was for Onikakushi, but here I felt the sensation of insufficiency as stronger).

3)"There are too many dead people walking, nowadays" (Oishi-san)

Spoiler:

As for the twins, I'm ready to state that there would be a "third" one. Not a third twin, but simply an "evil version" of the heir. Being she Mion or Shion.
I mean, I don't believe the evil lives with the normal human being. Once the evil possesses the body of the victim, the human being is gone.
And the evil could as well act as a corpse. So that's how I'd explain how Mion (Shion?) was able to "kill (kill?) them all" despite her being dead before the happenings.
Same for Takano-san. If she was already dead that night in the storehouse, maybe that wasn't properly her, but an evil-being possessing her corpse.

So basically, even if someone is dead, it's still possible to see him/her around as the possessed form. Which clearly can't be spotted by normal peoples

- The scene of the doll would have been meaningful and impactful, I believe. I hope in Meakashi to see it.

- I was disappointed not to see Rika's suicide. I remember Mion's eyes: they were surprised when Rika stabbed herself. But then she started laughing hysterically (happily?). Best guess, I think Rika committed suicide because she recognized she had no way of save herself.
No clues about Satoko instead, may she rest in peace, as far as Watanagashi is concerned.

- "I killed them all" (Mion) , but I think Rena actually survived on this stage, as Rika and Satoko survived in Onikakushi.

All in all, the episode was a bit confusing. Still I feel there are not pieces of puzzles given away enough to make safe assumptions.

Still recognizing this episode's greatness, the disappointment for the missing Rika's suicide induce me to deduct one point from the total.

9/10


-------------------------------

And now can't wait for Tatarigoroshi! Satoko is quite of an unknown character for what we got to see 'till now. And very often the unknown characters result to be the best ones at the end. I'm very confident that it will be a memorable arc, less creepy but most depressing? I'm ready for it.
Go Satoko, it's your turn ^^

Spoiler:

Kawaii ^^

I wonder if they will keep the 4 episode for chapter formula. Also because with 8 chapters, 4x8=32 , not episodes enough (this if Matsuribayashi will have the actual chance to be included in the anime. Or if it will be added later in the time).

[Amaranthine]

*sigh* I had nice long post all typed out, but of course Firefox felt it necessary to crash before I could actually post it. :|

The gist of it was that I don't have a great deal of speculation to add, thanks to watching the episode after everybody else has already posted the things I was thinking. And I can't be bothered to type again what I did have to add, apart from just one thing. I don't think this has been mentioned, although I know the opposite of it has.

Basically, I was thinking that Oishi could smoke so much to protect himself from... something... rather than his cigarettes being a cause of hallucinations/paranoia/whatever themselves. Just what that thing is, or why he would know about it, well, I haven't really thought through yet. It's just a little thought that came to me suddenly.

Finally, I'm very suprised (now that I know about it) that the doll scene wasn't included. The pages of the manga which Suhi-Y posted had an impact on me... as is probably obvious. ↓

[Vicke]

I guess this episode proves that people who where saying that Kei-chan was weak after he freak out on the phone where wrong, I mean how many would remain so calm when being about to get tortured to death.

After this ep I still believe its Mion in the prison and its Shion that took Mions place. The demon inside Shion would be a dual personality that call herself "Mion". The Mions that stab Kei-chan in the gut and attacks him in the hospital are both his hallucination I think, the slit eyes on them are back and all that. As people already said I think it was the big rock in the head that caused it.

Now what I really can't explain is the mystery about Takano, who where supposed to be dead when Kei-chan went in the storagehouse. I dont think Kei-chan was hallucinating Takano and I dont think Oishi lied about it.

[orion]

Originally Posted by MarmoO

Spoiler:

Wouldn't it be that the one who have gone into warehouse was in fact Mion, but she was also the one responsible for murders. (She said she heard something there, she said it was really loud. Wouldn't it be a trigger for her "second" personality's awakening.

Spoiler:

The one who entered the warehouse is probably Shion. She refers to Mion as "Onee" at the festival in episode 6 and at 13:46 ep. 6 in a conversation with K1 after they are out of the warehouse. So there was probably no switching by the twins on the day of the festival. Also, Sushi-Y's clue found here noted earlier in this thread points to Shion being in the prison cell as well.

That would be kind of gross if...

Spoiler:

the reason some of the bodies can't be found is that they were processed into canned meat.

I'm not a fan of the Mion/Shion switch noted in the blog earlier because it's way too complicated to pull off in an anime production, even though it would be the ultimate mind trip. A situational switch is more easier to execute.

Spoiler:

If Mion was partially possessed by the "demon" and expected to die, then some barriers would be removed and could explain the behavior noted in the blog imo. (Aren't white kimonos associated with death?) Besides, the "true" heir would need to be under supervision of the head of the family, so not being in the main compound would be rare imo.

Also, people talk all the time in a small town. It's not out of the ordinary for something like the cafe incident to spread to Mion.

It would also be expected that Shion is capable of becoming an "ogre" too, since they are exact copies DNA-wise. The environment could be a determining factor imo if you believe that Shion is not the "ogre" in this arc.

[Nics]

Ugh, this episode was great but spoils everything I hypothesized before hand!

Plus that last scene was scary as hell, and the whole text fade to red done by wind fansubs added more thrills to the moment. Gasp.

[MarmoO]

[QUOTE=orion]

Spoiler:

The one who entered the warehouse is probably Shion. She refers to Mion as "Onee" at the festival in episode 6 and at 13:46 ep. 6 in a conversation with K1 after they are out of the warehouse. So there was probably no switching by the twins on the day of the festival. Also, Sushi-Y's clue found here noted earlier in this thread points to Shion being in the prison cell as well.

Spoiler:

In conversation with Keichi she wanted to convince him that she really is a Shion, because she felt uneasy all the time around him as “tough Mion”, if that trip to warehouse awakened her "ogre" then it is also possible that Shion really was in that cell, that’s why she called her “Onee”.

I wonder if Mion's ogre was a case of split personality or maybe it was something similar to Keichi's madness from first arc. It was rather impossible for Mion to change places with Shion so I assume "ogre" died. Yet it was Shion who tried to kill Keichi. Shion commited suicide, but one of the twins appeared in his room - there is no chance that she would be there in any way, except supernatural. If we don't consider supernatural reasoning and if we don't take it as a kind of teaser from director then it is a sure thing Keichi also has lost his senses. Earlier it was mentioned that in game Rika has been found with syringe. Also in scene where Rika killed herself Mion/Shion looked like she was rather trying to defend herself, than being aggressive (wouldn't it be that something similar to Keichi’s madness from first arc happened to all of them?)

[SvenTheSweeper]

Originally Posted by orion

That would be kind of gross if...

Spoiler:

the reason some of the bodies can't be found is that they were processed into canned meat.

Are you referring to below?

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Spoiler:

2) They took a 30-minutes confession scene and shortened it down to... 3 minutes? As a result, many interesting stories, including the history of the Sonozaki family, the recovery of Hinamizawa after WWII, and the canned human meat incident were all left out.
-------------------------------

[Cyz]

Is it me or are all the chapters have different stories in it that can stand by themselves and with just the same characters?

[Wakuseino]

Ok then~ I admit to having not read through the rest of this thread, and now I am going to make a couple hairbrained theories. Please excuse things...

Spoiler for gogohairbrained theories:

Theory #1: Takano

Evidence: Takano was dead for 24 hours before her body was discovered? Despite this, she was quite alive so that she could break into the storeroom. Thus, we are forced to raise questions as to how that happened... the answer becomes fairly clear once one realizes that the corpse was burned beyond recognition, of course. The only way they managed to identify the body was through dental/medical records - something that as a nurse, she would theoretically have access to.

Conclusion: Takano faked her death.

Problems: There are a few notable problems here. First off, if all the missing people from this rash of murders has been discovered... Whose body was it that was in there if it wasn't Takano's? Another major problem is a question of why she would want to fake her death...

Theory #2: Mion/Shion/Threeon?

Ok, don't expect this theory to make a lot of sense, this is more my interpretation of what happened during the whole scene with Shion in the cell and afterwards. Now, it was pretty clear that Mion was intending to kill Shion last, but I figure there was a change of plans, as she saw she didn't have enough time to do anything. She tazered Keiichi primarily because she had another plan.

She knew she wouldn't have enough time to kill both Keiichi and Shion, so was forced to think fast. She tazered Keiichi, then while Keiichi was unconscious, killed Shion, and dumped her into the well (considering that she did the killing in that area, it's likely it has a direct link to the well - don't want to expose the guro overmuch, after all). Then, with Shion dead, she switched places, putting herself into the cell until the police arrived, and brought her to the hospital, believing her to be Shion.

The night of Keiichi's stabbing, she probably snuck out the window, then found Keiichi and stabbed him. Believing it was over, she then climbed herself back into her room, then jumped out the window killing herself. It was stated as they were pulling her corpse away, that death was probably instantanious.

With all this in mind, we're left with another question... Who then, was in Keiichi's room? It couldn't have been either Shion OR Mion, as they're both undoubtedly getting an autopsy done at the time being... Thus, we're left with a real problem... There are Three Mions running around, by the looks of things.

...Huh. That might actually explain why the twins weren't killed... Do the rules apply to triplets?

Problems: ...Of course, the major one winds up being "...a third Mion? That doesn't make any sense!". And I know it doesn't make any sense, that's why I've described this theory as not making any sense. I have no explanation for this third Mion, but if what Keiichi saw was real, there must be a third one, if only because the other two bodies are in police custody.

...Ah... the joys of insane hairbrained theories...

...WAIT! I HAVE IT!

Spoiler for combining the two theories to create...:

The third "Mion" was actually probably a hallucination in retrospect. I just realized the position Keiichi and Mion (or Shion) was in... both were in the hospital, and broke down... The question is of course, why. I'm not subscribing to the demon theory, so I'm assuming that Mion was indeed the one in the hospital. Takano, being 'dead', was thus in the perfect position to target them in another way without them realizing: Both Mion and Keiichi were drugged shortly after being brought into the hospital. That means that Mion was getting drugged for a good 3 days before she died. Considering that there were three days in between, it's hard to believe that no clothes from home were brought in for "Shion", so she'd likely have some clothes left over... after 3 days of getting the wacky juice that may have been applied to Keiichi in two doses back in Chapter 1... she's certifiably nuts, and it wouldn't matter whether it's Mion or Shion... She probably went out to meet Keiichi with the best of intentions, really - ...and then the stuff kicked in again, and she went kinda crazy.

I believe it was stated in Chapter 1 that whatever this mysterious drug-like thing that affected Tomitake caused something similar to bipolarism... Likely that kicked in again, and she threw herself out of the window during one of the short suicidal moments.

As for what happened to Keiichi... just the beginnings of the hallucinations he would be having from hereon...

[Deku Kirby]

Originally Posted by Wakuseino

Ok then~ I admit to having not read through the rest of this thread, and now I am going to make a couple hairbrained theories. Please excuse things...

Spoiler for gogohairbrained theories:

Theory #1: Takano

Evidence: Takano was dead for 24 hours before her body was discovered? Despite this, she was quite alive so that she could break into the storeroom. Thus, we are forced to raise questions as to how that happened... the answer becomes fairly clear once one realizes that the corpse was burned beyond recognition, of course. The only way they managed to identify the body was through dental/medical records - something that as a nurse, she would theoretically have access to.

Conclusion: Takano faked her death.

Problems: There are a few notable problems here. First off, if all the missing people from this rash of murders has been discovered... Whose body was it that was in there if it wasn't Takano's? Another major problem is a question of why she would want to fake her death...

Theory #2: Mion/Shion/Threeon?

Ok, don't expect this theory to make a lot of sense, this is more my interpretation of what happened during the whole scene with Shion in the cell and afterwards. Now, it was pretty clear that Mion was intending to kill Shion last, but I figure there was a change of plans, as she saw she didn't have enough time to do anything. She tazered Keiichi primarily because she had another plan.

She knew she wouldn't have enough time to kill both Keiichi and Shion, so was forced to think fast. She tazered Keiichi, then while Keiichi was unconscious, killed Shion, and dumped her into the well (considering that she did the killing in that area, it's likely it has a direct link to the well - don't want to expose the guro overmuch, after all). Then, with Shion dead, she switched places, putting herself into the cell until the police arrived, and brought her to the hospital, believing her to be Shion.

The night of Keiichi's stabbing, she probably snuck out the window, then found Keiichi and stabbed him. Believing it was over, she then climbed herself back into her room, then jumped out the window killing herself. It was stated as they were pulling her corpse away, that death was probably instantanious.

With all this in mind, we're left with another question... Who then, was in Keiichi's room? It couldn't have been either Shion OR Mion, as they're both undoubtedly getting an autopsy done at the time being... Thus, we're left with a real problem... There are Three Mions running around, by the looks of things.

...Huh. That might actually explain why the twins weren't killed... Do the rules apply to triplets?

Problems: ...Of course, the major one winds up being "...a third Mion? That doesn't make any sense!". And I know it doesn't make any sense, that's why I've described this theory as not making any sense. I have no explanation for this third Mion, but if what Keiichi saw was real, there must be a third one, if only because the other two bodies are in police custody.

...Ah... the joys of insane hairbrained theories...

...WAIT! I HAVE IT!

Spoiler for combining the two theories to create...:

The third "Mion" was actually probably a hallucination in retrospect. I just realized the position Keiichi and Mion (or Shion) was in... both were in the hospital, and broke down... The question is of course, why. I'm not subscribing to the demon theory, so I'm assuming that Mion was indeed the one in the hospital. Takano, being 'dead', was thus in the perfect position to target them in another way without them realizing: Both Mion and Keiichi were drugged shortly after being brought into the hospital. That means that Mion was getting drugged for a good 3 days before she died. Considering that there were three days in between, it's hard to believe that no clothes from home were brought in for "Shion", so she'd likely have some clothes left over... after 3 days of getting the wacky juice that may have been applied to Keiichi in two doses back in Chapter 1... she's certifiably nuts, and it wouldn't matter whether it's Mion or Shion... She probably went out to meet Keiichi with the best of intentions, really - ...and then the stuff kicked in again, and she went kinda crazy.

I believe it was stated in Chapter 1 that whatever this mysterious drug-like thing that affected Tomitake caused something similar to bipolarism... Likely that kicked in again, and she threw herself out of the window during one of the short suicidal moments.

As for what happened to Keiichi... just the beginnings of the hallucinations he would be having from hereon...

*takes off glasses*

My god...I think we have a winner.

[orion]

Originally Posted by SvenTheSweeper

Are you referring to below?

Spoiler for Sushi-Y:

2) They took a 30-minutes confession scene and shortened it down to... 3 minutes? As a result, many interesting stories, including the history of the Sonozaki family, the recovery of Hinamizawa after WWII, and the canned human meat incident were all left out.

Yep. That would be the one.

I also agree with the Takano theory.

Spoiler:

That was the only death that didn't fit the pattern in both chapters. She kills and burns a body double and switches dental records to cover her trail so that the "demon" and/or the "demon" helpers wouldn't hunt her. Pretty sick of her if you asked me.

So do we ever find out what mistake Rika made in her dance and why Rena got spared?

I finally got the prologue.

Spoiler:

It took place in the Sonazaki kitchen after Rika went over to borrow some soy sauce and with a syringe to attempt to inject Mion. Whatever is in that syringe, they aren't injecting people with it early enough to have an effect.

[Green²]

Spoiler for Ep.8:

Aww, fuck... they tortured her. But I'm having an tough time here placing things as it is, though I'd almost say she was forced just to watch her friends get tortured to death. Well, no bruises/blood on her from what we could see. ... could imagine, other.

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Spoiler for Episode 8 highlight:

2) The reason why Mion kept Shion alive was because she was saving her until the end. Mion wanted to kill her in a best, most painful way after forcing her to watch the death of all the other captives first.

Eat your heart out, Narutaru.

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Spoiler for Episode 8 highlight:

2) They took a 30-minutes confession scene and shortened it down to... 3 minutes? As a result, many interesting stories, including the history of the Sonozaki family, the recovery of Hinamizawa after WWII, and the canned human meat incident were all left out.

Jimmy Hoffa brand, I say.

Originally Posted by Wakuseino

Ok then~ I admit to having not read through the rest of this thread, and now I am going to make a couple hairbrained theories. Please excuse things...

Spoiler for gogohairbrained theories:

Theory #1: Takano

Evidence: Takano was dead for 24 hours before her body was discovered? Despite this, she was quite alive so that she could break into the storeroom. Thus, we are forced to raise questions as to how that happened... the answer becomes fairly clear once one realizes that the corpse was burned beyond recognition, of course. The only way they managed to identify the body was through dental/medical records - something that as a nurse, she would theoretically have access to.

Conclusion: Takano faked her death.

Problems: There are a few notable problems here. First off, if all the missing people from this rash of murders has been discovered... Whose body was it that was in there if it wasn't Takano's? Another major problem is a question of why she would want to fake her death...

Theory #2: Mion/Shion/Threeon?

Ok, don't expect this theory to make a lot of sense, this is more my interpretation of what happened during the whole scene with Shion in the cell and afterwards. Now, it was pretty clear that Mion was intending to kill Shion last, but I figure there was a change of plans, as she saw she didn't have enough time to do anything. She tazered Keiichi primarily because she had another plan.

She knew she wouldn't have enough time to kill both Keiichi and Shion, so was forced to think fast. She tazered Keiichi, then while Keiichi was unconscious, killed Shion, and dumped her into the well (considering that she did the killing in that area, it's likely it has a direct link to the well - don't want to expose the guro overmuch, after all). Then, with Shion dead, she switched places, putting herself into the cell until the police arrived, and brought her to the hospital, believing her to be Shion.

The night of Keiichi's stabbing, she probably snuck out the window, then found Keiichi and stabbed him. Believing it was over, she then climbed herself back into her room, then jumped out the window killing herself. It was stated as they were pulling her corpse away, that death was probably instantanious.

With all this in mind, we're left with another question... Who then, was in Keiichi's room? It couldn't have been either Shion OR Mion, as they're both undoubtedly getting an autopsy done at the time being... Thus, we're left with a real problem... There are Three Mions running around, by the looks of things.

...Huh. That might actually explain why the twins weren't killed... Do the rules apply to triplets?

Problems: ...Of course, the major one winds up being "...a third Mion? That doesn't make any sense!". And I know it doesn't make any sense, that's why I've described this theory as not making any sense. I have no explanation for this third Mion, but if what Keiichi saw was real, there must be a third one, if only because the other two bodies are in police custody.

...Ah... the joys of insane hairbrained theories...

...WAIT! I HAVE IT!

Spoiler for combining the two theories to create...:

The third "Mion" was actually probably a hallucination in retrospect. I just realized the position Keiichi and Mion (or Shion) was in... both were in the hospital, and broke down... The question is of course, why. I'm not subscribing to the demon theory, so I'm assuming that Mion was indeed the one in the hospital. Takano, being 'dead', was thus in the perfect position to target them in another way without them realizing: Both Mion and Keiichi were drugged shortly after being brought into the hospital. That means that Mion was getting drugged for a good 3 days before she died. Considering that there were three days in between, it's hard to believe that no clothes from home were brought in for "Shion", so she'd likely have some clothes left over... after 3 days of getting the wacky juice that may have been applied to Keiichi in two doses back in Chapter 1... she's certifiably nuts, and it wouldn't matter whether it's Mion or Shion... She probably went out to meet Keiichi with the best of intentions, really - ...and then the stuff kicked in again, and she went kinda crazy.

I believe it was stated in Chapter 1 that whatever this mysterious drug-like thing that affected Tomitake caused something similar to bipolarism... Likely that kicked in again, and she threw herself out of the window during one of the short suicidal moments.

As for what happened to Keiichi... just the beginnings of the hallucinations he would be having from hereon...

Spoiler for and a twist:

Some do assume that she did indeed jumped to her death. But, why was she alive later at the hospital? I would put it as an faked death as well. ...a la Romeo & Juliet, when drugs come to mind. Then to later awaken within mortuary of the hospital. Probably all later covered-up by the white coats.

Though, I'd suppose the creators are trying to point to another direction:



...with clean foot that be.

[Nics]

Spoiler:

Clean foot? Theory for such an odd detail?

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by kj1980

Spoiler:

Not a quote on quote translation, but something close to it. All the following are said through Mion's words at that scene:

1. Hinamizawa was formerly known as Onigafuchi

2. The residents of Onigafuchi believed strongly that they inherited demons' blood and considered themselves to be more noble than others

3. However, with the opening of Japan by Commodore Matthew C. Perry, the times in Japan changed dramatically. With the new Meiji government's policy of doing away with the old and introducing newer ideas for rapid modernization, Onigafuchi's name was changed to Hinamizawa.

4. As Japan sped through modernization, it extended its military might in the name of "rich country, strong military." Spanning military victories in the Sino-Japanese War and the Russo-Japanese War, Japan entered into Pacific War (Pacific Front of WWII).

5*. By this time, Onigafuchi's reverence as a sacred village was in ruins. Villagers and residents from this area were frowned upon as hinin. Slanderous and unsubtantiated rumors about Onigafuchi being an isolated hamlet run by criminals and low-lives became the standard.

6*. People were discriminated for just being from Onigafuchi/Hinamizawa. Parents in the outlying areas told their children that residents of Hinamizawa have a disease. Kids who were touched by children of Hinamizawa cried and parents would actually put salt onto the area where he/she were touched.

7*. Adults would tell their children to never go to Hinamizawa as they would disappear as an Onikakushi, chopped up and eaten. They would tell unsubstantiated horror stories that residents of Hinamizawa lived through a famine in the past by eating human corpses.

8*. Such slanderous rumors did not end within childrens' world. Companies refused to hire people from Onigafuchi. Marriages were also broken; when it was found out that they married a person from Onigafuchi, the other family pressed for an immediate divorce.

[*5~8: These are typical of the burakumin problems that Japan faced/faces since the Meiji Restoration. Residents of blacklisted buraku areas faced/faces huge discrimination, ranging from unemployment and marriage for just being from a certain area. As this is a very sensitive issue, it might be one of the reasons why this section was not explained in the anime]

9. Even under the propaganda slogans of "defending this nation as one" during the war, people in Hinamizawa were still discrimated, despite contributing its residents to the war effort.

10. However, the war finally ended in 1945. Men who went off to war returned, but many did not. However, a bright future for Hinamizawa seemed to lie ahead as General MacArthur's GHQ began to implement a new constitution to get rid of social discrimination once and for all (under the Meiji constitution, discrimination was illegal de jure). Residents of Hinamizawa began to work hard to bring back the rich nature of their beloved homeland.

11. One of the persons who contributed much to redeveloping Hinamizawa and amassing immense wealth was Mion's grandfather, Sonozaki Souhei.

12. Souhei was a food and supplies warehouse manager in Harbin during the war. When the end of the war was announced, Souhei schemes with his fellow members and superiors to smuggle canned military food rations back to Japan. Once back in Japan, he made a fortune selling the smuggled canned foods.

13. But Souhei did not use his new found wealth to his own good. He gave all the money that he amassed to his wife, the head of the Sonozaki family.

14. "Let us rebuild Hinamizawa. All the villagers are family. This fortune shall be shared amongst everyone." said Mion's grandmother, Sonozaki Oryou. This is the main reason why Hinamizawa exists as today and why the Sonozaki family has great influence in this area.

15. Using the money, the villagers helped rebuild the stagnating economy of Hinamizawa. Those that succeeded in turn helped others with their new found wealth. The strong bond of Hinamizawa's residents were reinforced through this process.

16. But by the mid 1950s, a change in the wind took place once again. Suspicions and rumors of the "human canned meat" began to spread. Souhei's former superior officer broke out the shocking news that the canned meat that he sold were in fact, human meat. Because of this, the unfounded discrimination of residents of Hinamizawa as demons that devour on human flesh started to flare again.

17. Why would human meat be in canned foods? Wasn't Souhei just a manager of the supplies warehouse? According to his former superior, Souhei was really just a meager private who exterminated mice and got rid of human corpses - a job fit for a lowly social status coming from his residential records.

18. Souhei would later be transferred as a corpse handler to a certain medical unit of the military. But that unit was a dark area of the military whose staff were doing things that were more inhumane that the unfounded rumors of Onigafuchi.

19. People would know this military unit as Unit 731 - the inhumane medical experimentations on human test subjects to create biological weapons. How obnoxious these military people are - they look down upon a resident of Onigafuchi/Hinamizawa just on baseless rumors and bottom-out-of-sight social economic status when they themselves are doing things that are far worse and horrific.

20. Souhei was transferred to a division within that unit where they were studying how to obtain much needed food for its militarymen. Japan was facing a huge problem during the war in providing its servicemen food in their frontlines. Malnutrition lead to loss of concentration and body mechanisms to fight off diseases. The morale to keep on fighting was also in danger. Hence, this division was given the order to find a way to obtain food in the battlefield. At first they studied stealing from locals and creating survival kits on plants and animals of that region. However, they soon lost sight and opened the door of the unthinkable.

21. What is the most readily available source of protein in the battlefield? Yes, you thought right - human corpses. Bodies of the enemy or our own servicemen, it didn't matter. They believed that its servicemen should eat whatever that is available to live out this war. Mion's grandfather would despise them. These men frowned upon him with baseless slanders of coming from a village that ate human corpses. Yet, these men were the ones that went further. "So what if they call me a corpse-eating demon? These men were the real demons. I don't feel subjugated on no matter what they say." said Mion's grandfather.

22. Several samples were made. But these scientists dared not to try out themselves. So they sent some to the front under the name of "alternative meat." The scientists stamped a logo "circle-alt" on these cans so they don't mistakenly eat them themselves. But the servicemen at the fronts loved it.

23. Did Souhei really sell canned foods that were made by human meat? No one knows precisely. Souhei himself denied it firmly to the end. But there were many who were jealous of Hinamizawa's road to rebuilding it's economy. They called us people who were living off of the wealth made by selling human corpses. Once again, Hinamizawa was back to where it was - being discriminated by everyone.

24. Kids of Hinamizawa were once again thrown stones by other children. That's when Mion' grandmother stepped in. She told the children, "if one child throws a stone at you, throw back with two. If two kids throw stones at you, get back at them with four. If eight kids come after you with sticks, you thwart them off with sixteen. If slandered by thirty, you yell back with sixty. And if a thousand tries to get us, we all come out as residents of Hinamizawa." Sonozaki Oryou stepped up as a leader of Hinamizawa.

25. Residents of Hinamizawa formed a strong bond to look after each other. If a child was bullied, they went to the bully's house. If an adult was discriminated, everyone, young and old, went out to voice their opinion. "Piss off a member of Hinamizawa, you're gonna get into deep shit." That was the thought process behind it. That is the exact reason why Kei was saved by the residents of Hinamizawa who ganged up on those three delinquents.

26 onward: as you saw in the anime




This explanation itselves are quite long (as well as touching several sensitive issues). Hence, the Mion's explanation of Hinamizawa's past was rather shortened to demons of Onigafuchi being bullied by others.

Wow, good job, that probably took you a while to type.

Originally Posted by Pellissier

- I was disappointed not to see Rika's suicide. I remember Mion's eyes: they were surprised when Rika stabbed herself. But then she started laughing hysterically (happily?). Best guess, I think Rika committed suicide because she recognized she had no way of save herself.
No clues about Satoko instead, may she rest in peace, as far as Watanagashi is concerned.

You'll find out about both in Meakashi-hen. Rika's suicide scene was from there to begin with.

Originally Posted by Pellissier

- "I killed them all" (Mion) , but I think Rena actually survived on this stage, as Rika and Satoko survived in Onikakushi.

Rena lived on in Watanagashi-hen (it was mentioned in an epilogue-ish debrief scene, I think). As for Rika and Satoko in Onikakushi-hen, their conditions are "unknown" since that chapter ended without any reference to them. (Well, the gamers who finished Minagoroshi-hen knows what happened to them though)

Originally Posted by Pellissier

And now can't wait for Tatarigoroshi! Satoko is quite of an unknown character for what we got to see 'till now. And very often the unknown characters result to be the best ones at the end. I'm very confident that it will be a memorable arc, less creepy but most depressing? I'm ready for it.

My favorite chapter, my favorite character. ^^

Rather than calling it depressing, I'd describe it as being more "painful" to watch. Tatarigoroshi-hen is also the most confusing (complex?) chapter of them all. Watanagashi-hen's ending was confusing, but it's nothing compared to Tatarigoroshi-hen, which will have more twists and turns than a rollercoaster.

By the way, some preview pics for episode 9 from the official site:

Spoiler:

According to the preview, it'll probably feature the initial events (Keiichi's cooking incident and the baseball competition), where we will learn more about Satoko and her ni-ni- (Satoko's way of calling her "oniichan" (big brother)), Satoshi.

Originally Posted by Pellissier

I wonder if they will keep the 4 episode for chapter formula. Also because with 8 chapters, 4x8=32 , not episodes enough (this if Matsuribayashi will have the actual chance to be included in the anime. Or if it will be added later in the time).

As far as I know, the anime will only cover up to Tsumihoroboshi-hen (6th chapter). When this anime was being planned, Minagoroshi-hen wasn't even out yet (December 2005). And the final chapter, Matsuribayashi-hen, is still in production, due out by Comike 70 (August 2006).

If we take the list of chapters, and insert the anime episode numbers beside them, it'll probably look like this:

Higurashi no Naku Koroni (question arc)
Chapter 1: Onikakushi-hen (Episode 1 - 4)
Chapter 2: Watanagashi-hen (Episode 5 - 8)
Chapter 3: Tatarigoroshi-hen (Episode 9 - 12?)
Chapter 4: Himatsubushi-hen (Episode 13 - 16?)

Higurashi no Naku Koroni Kai (answer arc)
Chapter 5: Meakashi-hen (Episode 17 - 21?)
Chapter 6: Tsumihoroboshi-hen (Episode 21 - 26?)
Chapter 7: Minagoroshi-hen
Chapter 8: Matsuribayashi-hen

From a gamer's point of view, I'm not sure what it'll be like if the anime ended with Tsumihoroboshi. Especially because, in many ways, Minagoroshi-hen (7th chapter) was the chapter were we learn of the TRUE answers (Meakashi and Tsumihoroboshi provided answers to the specific events in the question chapters, but the larger, more fundamental questions remain)

Like I mentioned in another post somewhere else before, if they do skip out on the final TIP of Tsumihoroboshi-hen, "Demon's Script" (and since I don't see any TIP appearing in the anime, they probably will skip out on it ^^; ), which you obtain AFTER the ending of Tsumihoroboshi-hen, then Tsumihoroboshi-hen's ending would actually make a really nice ending for the anime too.

But it'd be kind of like a fake ending where nothing's really solved. Oh well, we'll see.

[Green²]

Originally Posted by Nics

Spoiler:

Clean foot? Theory for such an odd detail?

Spoiler:

If truely jumped. Otherwise, dirty if walked out. ... Not that, one couldn't have had help. But thin.

[Guardian Enzo]

This anime must be the all-time Animesuki leader in spoiler tags...

[Freakman]

*clears voice*
After getting approval from kj, here's a small TIP :
There's no third Sonozaki sister.
That much I'd like to make clear

[Menshi]

Spoiler:

Alot of people are missing something that seems sort of obvious to me. K1 had to have gone insane noone stabbed him or hammered a nail through his finger in the hospital. My reasoning is because why would the person who stabbed him say I killed everyone they're all dead if Rena is still alive and K1 didn't die. She would have finished him off if she really went there to kill him. Also the hammer through the finger thing it's not like she was hiding under the bed waiting for Oishi to leave.

[Newprimus]

Originally Posted by Menshi

Spoiler:

Alot of people are missing something that seems sort of obvious to me. K1 had to have gone insane noone stabbed him or hammered a nail through his finger in the hospital. My reasoning is because why would the person who stabbed him say I killed everyone they're all dead if Rena is still alive and K1 didn't die. She would have finished him off if she really went there to kill him. Also the hammer through the finger thing it's not like she was hiding under the bed waiting for Oishi to leave.

Spoiler:

By everyone I think Mion meant everyone who was involved in the whole thing somehow. I don't think Rena was among those involved, even if she did figure out a lot of things. I think you might be taking "Everyone" too literally. Remember, this is Higurashi.

As for K1 not getting stabbed..... then why would he be in the hospital? SOMEONE stabbed him. Whether that someone was Mion, or Oyashiro-sama, or something else remains to be seen.

Mion probably came back to finish the job. The end result, of course, is not shown. Again, she's probably NOT Mion, but something else.

I had been thinking that the cause of everything is entirely human and mundane, but ever since the end of Watanagashi, I'm pretty sure there's a supernatural element involved in there somewhere.