Bleach Episode 289 Discussion Thread

[JustRob]

Originally Posted by dragonmeister

He used his bankai against Aizen, which was what made Aizen seem so awesomely awesome - if you remember, there was the full body of his bankai rather than the arm of his shikai.

No, he crashed down on Soukyoku hill shouting Aizen's name with his Shikai already unsealed. It was the sword arm of the giant that swung down on Aizen. Then the other arm of the giant came out trying to punch Aizen. Then Komamura asked Tousen for an explanation, after which he tried to release his bankai, but was shredded by Aizen's kidou before he could do so.

[JustRob]

Also I wonder how much more hairstyles they will come up with for Tousen. I think he got four different ones now, which is one more then Mayuri. Impressive.

[Mr.Amazing]

Originally Posted by Gin

Hisagi really impressed me this episode, I think he's easily the strongest of all the VCs.

I agree, I think he is most suited to be a Captain in the Gotei 13. I can only imagine what kind of Bankai he would have. And I can't believe Tosen has hollowfication!?!?! Does this mean Gin also has a mask?! I thought I saw in the preview last week that Tosen was about to pull out a mask!

[dragonmeister]

Why did Tousen's mask putting-on ritual (like Ichigo's face grabbing) take so much time with so many special effects? (whirlwind of doom) It's not like it could have been his first time using it (going by how easily he was using it and how sure he was of his capabilities in that form). Also, why does he get such awesome shoulder pads? None of Shinji's vizard get anything but masks (having trained for 100 years), and even Ichigo, having undergone several mask evolutions (gaining stripes, the post-Ulquiorra form), lacks this sort of hollowification. It's plain double standards - one level of awesome for the heroes, but another, better one entirely for the villains.

[-Sho-]

Damn Espada 0 is boring ...

Fortunately Tosen start to fight seriously .

Now i can't wait for Gin , he's mysterious ...

So this is the end of the anime/manga soon ? There are only the 3 boss guys with the dumb boy left . Unless that they'll bring a new Bad Guy .... and then Ichigo will go for more imba power ....

[sayde]

Originally Posted by dragonmeister

Why did Tousen's mask putting-on ritual (like Ichigo's face grabbing) take so much time with so many special effects? (whirlwind of doom) It's not like it could have been his first time using it (going by how easily he was using it and how sure he was of his capabilities in that form). Also, why does he get such awesome shoulder pads? None of Shinji's vizard get anything but masks (having trained for 100 years), and even Ichigo, having undergone several mask evolutions (gaining stripes, the post-Ulquiorra form), lacks this sort of hollowification. It's plain double standards - one level of awesome for the heroes, but another, better one entirely for the villains.

It's not all that hard to come up with a plausible explanation. The Vizards Aizen created were early experiments. At the time, he didn't have the knowledge or the tools (the hogyouku) necessary to perfect the process. So it stands to reason that the Vizards are somewhat imperfect in comparison to Tousen--who had the privilege of undergoing hollowfication an entire century later after Aizen obtained further knowledge and the hogyouku. Hence, the "whirlwind of doom" and the shoulder pads among other things possibly.

Even Ichigo's hollowfication is proving to be more and more different in comparison to all the other Vizards. Afterall, he's the only one we've seen so far to have a "perfect hollowfication" transformation. Him being the only Vizard not created through artificial means might have something to do with it.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by -Sho-

Damn Espada 0 is boring ...

Fortunately Tosen start to fight seriously .

Now i can't wait for Gin , he's mysterious ...

Espada 0 is indeed getting boring.. He gets more powerful by getting angry is just silly.. He is still easily smacked by Byakuya and Kenpachi

I'm surprised that Tosen gained Hallowfication.. It shows how much he wants to follow this "So called path of Justice" as he first claimed before leaving SS with Aizen and Gin.

I'm very interested to see what Gin does..

So this is the end of the anime/manga soon ? There are only the 3 boss guys with the dumb boy left . Unless that they'll bring a new Bad Guy .... and then Ichigo will go for more imba power ....

I always wonder what's going to happen to the boy... He seems strong in some way.. But just clueless..

[Alchemist007]

Tousen fight should be good.

[JustRob]

The reason Tousen's hollowfication took so long is one reason: Anime. They're trying to drag things out as much as possible, without inserting filler crap. That's why they make scenes like this a lot longer then in the manga, in the manga this happened in two seconds.

I don't really mind to be honest, it's better then that stupid Arabian filler crap from last week.

And yes the Byakuya VS Yammy fight is getting stupid, Yammy is now basically just their b*tch. But, since he is the Espada 0, stronger then Halibel, Barragan, and Starrk, that has to be saying something. I'm still holding my breath.

[Pa1n]

I really love yami fight - dont know why u dont , but espcially when Yami going mad-crazy(Powerfull more and more ) , I have feeling its going to get crazy fight

The reason Tousen hollowfication took time ... isn't it obious ? Its cool to see it like that for the first time , like Ichigo first bankai .... there is no need to explain it

can some 1 tell me / remind me , how ichigo got his hollowfication ? as said in the ep , it wasn't by a choice , so how he got it? Ihcigo is a test subject for Uno... ?

question for the manga boys : Is this Aizen arc is the final arc or there is way long story ahead?

[JustRob]

Ichigo developed an Inner Hollow right at the end of the first arc of Bleach, when he trained with Kisuke. Kisuke dragged his soul (without Shinigami powers) out of his body and threw him into a pit, challenging him to get out of there before turning into a Hollow. Ichigo managed to get out of there, but barely. He briefly transformed into a Hollow before regaining Shinigami powers.

That is why his "Inner Hollow" exists, and it's the reason he can become a Visored.

[Pa1n]

why was he turning into a Hollow ?

[JustRob]

Well, before he was thrown in the pit, Tessai cut off the soul chain that connects the soul to the body. The soul chain then started to erode, and Ichigo would turn into a Hollow if it eroded all the way to the end. It did, and so he turned into a Hollow.

[Alchemist007]

Completely.

[JustRob]

Well, we only saw as much as his mask. But at the very least that was when his inner Hollow awakened.

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by JustRob

And yes the Byakuya VS Yammy fight is getting stupid, Yammy is now basically just their b*tch. But, since he is the Espada 0, stronger then Halibel, Barragan, and Starrk, that has to be saying something. I'm still holding my breath.

The only thing it says imo, from just what we've seen in both manga and anime...he's physically the strongest Espada and nothing more.

[Kookee2k2]

Originally Posted by sayde

I'd respond, but I'm not sure over whether you were simply trying to answer secretzfan's question alone or if you were also trying to respond to my posts (with regards to why Tousen doesn't use Bankai).

well it was a bit more of both in my case, again I only stated in my own understanding of Bankai as a whole.

so by all means, please do

at anyrate: I did pose the question (basically: ) 'did I get it rite? lol?' was meant for anyone to answer

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Kookee2k2

well it was a bit more of both in my case, again I only stated in my own understanding of Bankai as a whole.

so by all means, please do

Well in that case, I'll take you up on the offer. And I'll do my best to keep it relatively brief. So lets see if I have this right...

Originally Posted by Kookee2k2

in conclusion: by obtaining a hollowification, one can keep a compression ratio with one's own reistu while 'powered up' state with-out the use of bankai (or at times shikai)

Originally Posted by Kookee2k2

reason why many other captains can lose when they have released their bankai, isn't the fact of any sort of 'easy target' (In my opinion), it is that their Bankai is so un-compressed when they release it,

Originally Posted by Kookee2k2

when they do, that it is fundamentally weaker (dispite the overall offensive gains)

So basically what you're trying to say is the following:
Hollowfication=more spirit energy compression & control
Bankai = less spirit energy compression & control.
Less spirit energy compression & control = decrease or no change in strength when releasing to Bankai depending on the bankai.
Therefore, hollowfication > Bankai


I think that's the jist of it. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

However, if these are indeed all of your points, and we're too assume it's all true (even though I have my doubts with a few things in that post) I'm not entirely convinced it gives Tousen a good strategic reason to not use Bankai. This is because (going off your statements alone) the affects of hollowfication should allow a shinigami to overcome a bankai's main weakness. In other words, instead of a Bankai decompressing a shinigami's reiatsu, hollowfication should allow them to keep their reiatsu compressed (or at least to a greater extent), therefore vastly improving their potential and effectiveness during the use of Bankai as a result.

So Tousen should be able to benefit from all the hax advantages his bankai grants while also gaining the speed and strength boosts he's demonstrated so far. I think that about sums up my perspective on the matter.

Originally Posted by Kookee2k2

at anyrate: I did pose the question (basically: ) 'did I get it rite? lol?' was meant for anyone to answer

For the purpose of trying to keep this from getting too long, I'd prefer not to answer.
Besides, I'm not sure I needed to for the sake of supporting my point.

[Mr.Amazing]

I feel like the reason Tosen doesn't use Bankai is because he wants to renounce soul reapers. Hisagi asks Tosen what he fears, and he states that he feared being assimilated into Soul Society, so he relies on his hollow powers instead of his shinigami ones.

[sayde]

By that logic, Tousen shouldn't have even resorted to going shikai to free his blade from Hisagi's zanpakuto. Of course, this comment is directed more so towards Kubo than you. It's actually a very good point. I mean it.

*edit*
It's just unfortunate that we have to witness such a thing so soon after Shunsui so elegantly stated that only amateurs would give up a victory for the sake of their own code.