Little Busters ~Refrain~ - Episode 13 [END] Discussion / Poll

[AP24]

Originally Posted by Akito Kinomoto

Wow. A Key anime. And it had...a good...ending? What sorcery is this?!

Don't most Key anime had good ending, if by good you mean happy ending?

[BloodyKitty]

Originally Posted by Akito Kinomoto

Wow. A Key anime. And it had...a good...ending? What sorcery is this?!

You need to elaborate on what you mean about a good ending .

LB has a happy ending, but takes quite some unbelievable actions to deliver it, like what DragoonKain3 said. The transition is a lot better than how it was done in CLANNAD, but still... In this aspect I think Kanon's happy ending bugs me the least. I still like Air's ending the most out of Key animes. It isn't outright happy, but good in many senses.

[Proto]

You need to elaborate on what you mean about a good ending

1. An ending is good if Proto likes it
2. Proto likes it

1 ^ 2 : It's a good ending.

To this day it bugs me to hell why ppl hold Kanon in such a high pedestal. Don't misunderstand me, it's great, i love it, but it does show that it' s the work of more inexperienced writers compared to Key's latter works.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by BloodyKitty

You need to elaborate on what you mean about a good ending .

LB has a happy ending, but takes quite some unbelievable actions to deliver it, like what DragoonKain3 said. The transition is a lot better than how it was done in CLANNAD, but still... In this aspect I think Kanon's happy ending bugs me the least. I still like Air's ending the most out of Key animes. It isn't outright happy, but good in many senses.

Yeah, the ending has a few stretches to the imagination, but with all the lite-fantasy stuff in this series, surviving an explosion by sheer dumb luck is less miraculous and more acceptable. It managed to reverse a guaranteed tragedy without it looking like it came out of nowhere, because Rikki and Rin earned their happy ending. I know others wanted a little bit of bittersweetness, but the writing here made me accept a philosophy to Jun Maeda's endings that's plagued his works since Kanon (2006). That's an accomplishment in itself, I say.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Proto

1. An ending is good if Proto likes it
2. Proto likes it

1 ^ 2 : It's a good ending.

To this day it bugs me to hell why ppl hold Kanon in such a high pedestal. Don't misunderstand me, it's great, i love it, but it does show that it' s the work of more inexperienced writers compared to Key's latter works.

In my view, Kanon had the best of the Key male leads, at least taken in a vacuum (i.e. without considering final pairings).

Spoiler for More Kanon discussions/comparisons, bit on Clannad too:

I felt Yuichi was a very smooth operator with good style, and a great sense of humor.

I also think the Mai and Shiori arcs were uniquely strong for "secondary" heroine arcs for a Key anime.

On the flip-side, though, I find Ayu to be the hardest of the Key main heroines to take seriously, and Kanon's ending just kind of happens. I'm honestly surprised its the happy Key ending that BloodyKitty has the least issue with.

At least with Clannad: After Story's ending, I can kind of see how the mysteries of the "hidden world", sporadically shown by the show itself and referred to directly by Kotomi, could allow for a happy come-from-behind ending. And I largely agree with Akito on this ending for Little Busters.

[User68604]

can't say i was too happy with this ending.

i'm not a sucker for sad endings, heck i dont even like bittersweet endings but this one felt forced. I wanted to see Rin and Riki really cherish what Kyousuke and the others did for them and move on in life. I mean, Kyousuke's intent was to have the become strong individuals who could handle the harsh reality that all their friends died in the bus accident.

For them to be saved felt cheesy and cheap to me.

[BloodyKitty]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

In my view, Kanon had the best of the Key male leads, at least taken in a vacuum (i.e. without considering final pairings).

Spoiler for More Kanon discussions/comparisons, bit on Clannad too:

I felt Yuichi was a very smooth operator with good style, and a great sense of humor.

I also think the Mai and Shiori arcs were uniquely strong for "secondary" heroine arcs for a Key anime.

On the flip-side, though, I find Ayu to be the hardest of the Key main heroines to take seriously, and Kanon's ending just kind of happens. I'm honestly surprised its the happy Key ending that BloodyKitty has the least issue with.

At least with Clannad: After Story's ending, I can kind of see how the mysteries of the "hidden world", sporadically shown by the show itself and referred to directly by Kotomi, could allow for a happy come-from-behind ending. And I largely agree with Akito on this ending for Little Busters.

Spoiler for spoilers on Kanon and CLANNAD:

Actually the Yuuichi x Ayu pairing is my least favorite among the "final pairings" in Key works, and the least favorite among Kanon's possible pairings as well. Here I'm not talking about what they choose to be the final pairing, but how the "turn-around ending" came. I did see how they threw hints and foreshadowing before the CLANNAD's ending came, but you know, after taking my tears by throwing actual deaths of two important characters to my face, the happy ending just came in a way that made me go "WTF is this? Give me back my tears!". Actually after some time I have come to terms with it and think about it like the way you and other positive interpretations take it, but seriously that feeling of being cheated is still registered in my mind. Let's just say while Kanon's and LB's turn-around endings also have issues to me, at least it didn't throw that kind of cheated feel to me like with CLANNAD, because even when it was heavily hinted that some characters might die or really have been dead, there are still slim hints that they might still be barely alive, and the main characters took that chance to make the happy ending. I appreciate that in those two endings, a little more with LB. Basically I prefer more realistic aspects when it comes to endings than the fantasy aspects.

Now that I think back about it, I don't really prefer either Kanon's ending or LB's ending over each other, so no hard feeling. Honestly, I don't usually like sudden turn-around full happy endings for all characters, and I still haven't found one that actually fully satisfy me.

[Lord of Fire]

Did Kyousuke cover Riki and Rin when the bus exploded or something? I can't offer any other explanation why he needed the most time to recover, while the other two seemed to have recovered fairly quickly.

The one thing that seemed a bit inconsistent to me was that they all survived the crash, when I thought they were all dead, especially since it was said – or at the very least strongly hinted at – that only Riki and Rin survived the crash and that Kyousuke was merely buying Riki and Rin time to get to a safe place before the bus would blow up.

Overall, I liked Refrain, and it'll probably make me appreciate the first season more, now that I know what the whole secret is all about.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by Lord of Fire

The one thing that seemed a bit inconsistent to me was that they all survived the crash, when I thought they were all dead, especially since it was said – or at the very least strongly hinted at – that only Riki and Rin survived the crash and that Kyousuke was merely buying Riki and Rin time to get to a safe place before the bus would blow up.

Kyousuke had the help of the others too, so I'm guessing all of them thought they were as good as dead. Or maybe they were only mostly dead, not actually dead.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Proto

1. An ending is good if Proto likes it
2. Proto likes it

1 ^ 2 : It's a good ending.

To this day it bugs me to hell why ppl hold Kanon in such a high pedestal. Don't misunderstand me, it's great, i love it, but it does show that it' s the work of more inexperienced writers compared to Key's latter works.

There are some nuances that can be found in Kanon that won't be found in later works. In a sense, Kanon was quieter when stuff like Clannad was loud and Air was deafening, lol. But usually it was loud and annoying too. Honestly, I would really claim that Kyoani Key anime are put on too highly of a pedestal in general even if I do like Clannad the most-- if you would remember what happened when people found out LB was not animated by Kyoani. It ranged from this...



to

Spoiler for Madoka:

Kyoani is no longer animating Key. That means Little Busters, Rewrite and everything after ... are all doomed! They'll have even less animation then our show! Which means...





No, Mami-san! You haven't even given a chance yet. At least it's not Deen!



But it's ok, since Homura later went to JC Staff to ensure LB would be of some quality.

Also, LB anime ending is the best out of the Key anime endings. At least it made some degree of consistency.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

There are some nuances that can be found in Kanon that won't be found in later works. In a sense, Kanon was quieter when stuff like Clannad was loud and Air was deafening, lol. But usually it was loud and annoying too. Honestly, I would really claim that Kyoani Key anime are put on too highly of a pedestal in general even if I do like Clannad the most

I'd prefer to use a more neutral term here, but I can't think of a more neutral term that effectively captures what I'm talking about, so let's pretend this term is neutral. The term is "sappy".

Key gets "sappy" extremely, extremely well. And some people love sappy stories more than anything else. I'm not saying that to praise or to criticize, just to make a basic observation. Speaking personally, I tend more towards sappy than I do "dark and cynical", so if anything, I'm complimenting Key here.

If "sappy" is what you love best, then Key delivers that as well as anybody else in (or tied to) the anime industry, in my view. The fact that KyoAni portrayed it in lovely visuals with generally good, unified stories, just made it even better. But JC Staff just showed that KyoAni does not have a monopoly on lovely visuals and generally good, unified stories.

Back when JC Staff doing LB! was first announced, the highly criticized anime-original content in Shakugan no Shana was still fresh in people's minds. And KyoAni's reputation for source material faithfulness was sterling, bolstered by the three Key/KyoAni anime themselves.

... My, how things have changed since then. One thing I like about the anime industry is that it can be strangely surprising sometimes.

-- if you would remember what happened when people found out LB was not animated by Kyoani. It ranged from this...



to

Spoiler for Madoka:

Kyoani is no longer animating Key. That means Little Busters, Rewrite and everything after ... are all doomed! They'll have even less animation then our show! Which means...





No, Mami-san! You haven't even given a chance yet. At least it's not Deen!

Also, LB anime ending is the best out of the Key anime endings. At least it made some degree of consistency.

lol Very well-played, Archon.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I'd prefer to use a more neutral term here, but I can't think of a more neutral term that effectively captures what I'm talking about, so let's pretend this term is neutral. The term is "sappy".

Key gets "sappy" extremely, extremely well. And some people love sappy stories more than anything else. I'm not saying that to praise or to criticize, just to make a basic observation. Speaking personally, I tend more towards sappy than I do "dark and cynical", so if anything, I'm complimenting Key here.

If "sappy" is what you love best, then Key delivers that better than anything else, in my view. The fact that KyoAni portrayed it in lovely visuals with generally good, unified stories, just made it even better. But JC Staff just showed that KyoAni does not have a monopoly on lovely visuals and generally good, unified stories.

Back when JC Staff doing LB! was first announced, the highly criticized anime-original content in Shakugan no Shana was still fresh in people's minds. And KyoAni's reputation for source material faithfulness was sterling, bolstered by the three Key/KyoAni anime themselves.

... My, how things have changed since then. One thing I like about the anime industry is that it can be strangely surprising sometimes.

At first, I found Little Busters in season 1 to be pretty insufferable with them sappy parts, I remember Haruka's like telling them she's been abused and then you have a bunch of childish girls going "we're all friends" and Riki being like "That's too sad!" I was like "Wow, this is corny as hell". Power of friendship saves the day? Someone needs to make a abridged series! When Kud got kidnapped, I was totally expecting them to go save her and break into some kind of musical Tari Tari style to save the day. (They should have, actually)

But incidentally this is when I started liking the series more since this narrative was able to do this with a straight face, and not the Mio kind. And Haruka may have ended as my favorite character in this because she embodies Key tendencies to be loud and annoying but also be very soulful and emotionally intense when the need is there. It's not gonna be the deepest or thought provoking stuff around, but having a vibrant soul is sometimes what matters more. In any case, where everything seems to be so cynically marketed, Little Busters as well as the other Key series may stand out.

And yea, Shana series left quite a bit of a bad taste for some people especially with season 2, and also left us to think that JC Staff was only going to cast female leads that sound like Shana. (Actually if you tweak Rin's voice a little...)

[Randrak42]

This kinda reminds me of the whole Killer Instinct (game) debacle. Back when the game was announced to being developed by Double Helix Games everyone was in an uproar because this game developer was known for some fantastic games like:
G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra! Green Lantern: Rise of the Manhunters! Battleship! and the fantastically cringe worthy Silent Hill: Homecoming!
Then the business model of "buy the fighters you want" was introduced and everyone raged about how stupid it was. Everyone cried about how this will ruin the legacy of the original Killer Instinct.

The result? The game came out and it's one of the best (if not THE best) fighting games of the year with one of the fairest business models in the industry.

I'm not saying the anime was, in my opinion, up to the standards of the VN but it certainly wasn't an embarrassment. JC Staff did much better than expected.

[Leo_Otaku]

Hey, Archon I'm waiting to hear your opinion of the last episode

Originally Posted by BloodyKitty

Spoiler for spoilers on Kanon and CLANNAD:

Actually the Yuuichi x Ayu pairing is my least favorite among the "final pairings" in Key works, and the least favorite among Kanon's possible pairings as well. Here I'm not talking about what they choose to be the final pairing, but how the "turn-around ending" came. I did see how they threw hints and foreshadowing before the CLANNAD's ending came, but you know, after taking my tears by throwing actual deaths of two important characters to my face, the happy ending just came in a way that made me go "WTF is this? Give me back my tears!". Actually after some time I have come to terms with it and think about it like the way you and other positive interpretations take it, but seriously that feeling of being cheated is still registered in my mind. Let's just say while Kanon's and LB's turn-around endings also have issues to me, at least it didn't throw that kind of cheated feel to me like with CLANNAD, because even when it was heavily hinted that some characters might die or really have been dead, there are still slim hints that they might still be barely alive, and the main characters took that chance to make the happy ending. I appreciate that in those two endings, a little more with LB. Basically I prefer more realistic aspects when it comes to endings than the fantasy aspects.

Now that I think back about it, I don't really prefer either Kanon's ending or LB's ending over each other, so no hard feeling. Honestly, I don't usually like sudden turn-around full happy endings for all characters, and I still haven't found one that actually fully satisfy me.

Just reply

Spoiler for Reply to Kanon spoiler:

Really? I loved Yuuichi and Ayu the best as a couple. I really liked the childhood friend bit. i also like her story the best. I loved everyone, except Nayuki, her story was the weakest. I wonder if they went like in the game and only gave Ayu the good end. On an OT note I liked how Toei played out the ending of the miracle happening rather than suddenly, bam!

I like AIR's ending myself quite a bit, bit I don't have a favorite ending D:

[kitten320]

I have to admit that I'm disappointed. For one there were too many inner monologues in the last 2 episodes that made me go"Hurry up already! You don't have all day to save them!"

Secondly that explosion was not needed.

Thirdly all that dramatic build up from before was for nothing and fully wasted. The ending really reminded of Mai HiME. Though Mai HiME still handled it better and irritated me less.
When Kyouseke said that Riki and Rin are the only ones alive, I did take it as everyone else are already dead, not unconscious.

And fourth... since Haruka's arc was my fave, I'm extremely disappointed with the fact that we didn't get a single scene with the sisters this season. Especially after the accident, like for example a scene in the hospital or something. Mai HiME at least gave some conclusion to characters stories while here "Yeh we all lived happy, THE END!"
Even transition from sad to happy was handled there better while here "BAM! Explosion! And we lived happily ever after."
Like really?
It was really underwhelming and unemotional. Probably my least favourite ending out of all Key works.

We also never found out who is that girl with an eye patch and why she has such strong influence on Kengo. I was disappointed so I checked and found some info from VN myself.

Spoiler for info that was not revealed in anime:

I think it is very important to know that she is actually DEAD.

I give this season 7 and even that is a bit too much. Very tempted to lower it till 6
And it could be such a nice final.

[Leo_Otaku]

Originally Posted by kitten320

I have to admit that I'm disappointed. For one there were too many inner monologues in the last 2 episodes that made me go"Hurry up already! You don't have all day to save them!"

Secondly that explosion was not needed.

Thirdly all that dramatic build up from before was for nothing and fully wasted. The ending really reminded of Mai HiME. Though Mai HiME still handled it better and irritated me less.
When Kyouseke said that Riki and Rin are the only ones alive, I did take it as everyone else are already dead, not unconscious.

And fourth... since Haruka's arc was my fave, I'm extremely disappointed with the fact that we didn't get a single scene with the sisters this season. Especially after the accident, like for example a scene in the hospital or something. Mai HiME at least gave some conclusion to characters stories while here "Yeh we all lived happy, THE END!"
Even transition from sad to happy was handled there better while here "BAM! Explosion! And we lived happily ever after."
Like really?
It was really underwhelming and unemotional. Probably my least favourite ending out of all Key works.

We also never found out who is that girl with an eye patch and why she has such strong influence on Kengo. I was disappointed so I checked and found some info from VN myself.

Spoiler for info that was not revealed in anime:

I think it is very important to know that she is actually DEAD.

I give this season 7 and even that is a bit too much. Very tempted to lower it till 6
And it could be such a nice final.

I do not think Mai HiME handled their ending better at all what so ever. That ending was an utter mess. Just saying. This one made sense.

It wasn't for nothing. They became strong enough to save everyone, which was more than what Kyousuke expected of them. The dramatic build-up was not wasted. I don't know how you thought that. Everyone was dead because of the explosion. It would be pretty hard to kill everyone just from a fall, unless the bus crushed their bodies. An explosion was fully needed, and is what killed them. Riki fell into his narcoleptic state and was unable to do anything to help when the bus exploded. They even went in to describe that was part of his weakness and due to what had happened in the world Kyousuke made he was able to overcome it.

I think there should have been some casualties, but with everyone dead in the end it would have been such a sad game. Endings like that that are not well revived. But, you can be one of the people that think when the bus exploded they all really died and afterward is a dream.

There is also Refrain which deals with Kanata, Haruka's sister. It would have been odd to have her in the ending placed in there like that. Haruka overcame her regrets in the dreamworld, not the real world.

I do see how you are annoyed with Miyuki being ignored to shit. I was pretty mad to find out that she actually died. I really liked her a lot. Even in the novel nothing is mentioned afterward about her.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by kitten320

I have to admit that I'm disappointed. For one there were too many inner monologues in the last 2 episodes that made me go"Hurry up already! You don't have all day to save them!"

I viewed these inner monologues the same way I do elaborate magical girl transformation scenes. In other words, time is essentially frozen here. It's not like several minutes of "real time" are passing by while these inner monologues are going on. We're just seeing the thoughts and reflections of the characters at a symbolic level. In "real time", these thoughts/reflections likely go by much faster, and may even be happening while rescue is underway.

Secondly that explosion was not needed.

The explosion was definitely needed. The emphasis on the gas leak (made back during the episode that Kyousuke narrated) would make no sense if there wasn't an explosion.

Thirdly all that dramatic build up from before was for nothing and fully wasted.

I'm sympathetic to this view. Going into Episode 13, I was prepared to feel this way. But that means...

Spoiler for Mai HiME comparison:

The ending really reminded of Mai HiME. Though Mai HiME still handled it better and irritated me less.

Spoiler for Mai HiME comparison:

I really don't see how anybody could compare the Mai HiMe ending favorably to Little Buster Refrain's. Mai HiME's 2nd last episode gave little if any clue of the mass character resurrection to come in the last episode.

In sharp contrast, Refrain's 2nd last episode gives loads of clues - To the point of making it almost obvious - That the final episode was going to involve a dramatic happy turnaround ending.

Giving viewers a week to mentally prepare for this made a big difference in my opinion. It's one of the main reasons why I think Refrain handled this way better than Mai HiME did.

When Kyouseke said that Riki and Rin are the only ones alive, I did take it as everyone else are already dead, not unconscious.

I took it that way as well. Which is why the dramatic change in tone starting in Episode 12 really took me by surprise. Still, Kyousuke is only human. Humans sometimes jump to conclusions, and sometimes state things in definitive terms that are more a matter of opinion or belief than indisputable fact.

And fourth... since Haruka's arc was my fave, I'm extremely disappointed with the fact that we didn't get a single scene with the sisters this season.

I'm inclined to think that the Kanata in the real world never made up with Haruka. The Kanata in Kyousuke's fake time-loop world is likely a total fabrication.

Yes, one of the sad implications here is that a lot of the secondary heroine arcs lose some of their impact once you realize it all took place in a dream world. But that would have been true even if Riki and Rin were the only two people to survive.

Mai HiME at least gave some conclusion to characters stories...

Spoiler for Mai HiMe comparison:

You mean conclusions like how ridiculously easily people were able to forgive Shizuru and Nao for the deaths and chaos they caused? This made me facepalm almost as much as Mai HiME's ridiculously out-of-nowhere happy ending in general did.

I'm glad that Refrain never had that sort of character story conclusion.

It was really underwhelming and unemotional.

I found it nicely emotional myself.

Originally Posted by Leo_Otaku

I think there should have been some casualties,

Why? How would that have been better than a truly happy ending with nicely non-conflicted feelings for viewers like me?

Also, who would you have killed?

I think if you're going for a happy ending, then make it a happy ending. Don't dilute it with needless casualties. So I disagree with you on this.

There's nothing more overdone today than the bittersweet ending. I find it very refreshing to see an ending that's willing to be totally happy.

[Magicflier]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

While I would've preferred that Rin and Riki have only survived (and no, that's not my shippy side talking... it would've made the lessons learned from the dream world more poignant), the true happy ending didn't feel like an asspull that was the last series.

Pretty much this... This is the sole reason why Little Busters is my favorite Key visual novel, since the ending wasn't something unexplained. It made sense more so compared to all other endings. (excluding Angel Beats since I don't really know what was planned for that anime... so we'll see in the future when the vn comes out and a remake is announced to give us proper explainations)

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Sure, it had some things that were unbelievable. Like say, how 2 people moved maybe like 20 people, or how there were no casualties at all, or how Kyousuke can do a backflip coming out from the hospital comatose, or how the hospital doesn't even let family members visit. But hey, I bought the dream sequence where the members of the Little Busters all pariticipated in, I guess I can forgive the rest.

About Kyousuke backflip, if you back a few scenes you'll notice a scene where it's showing Kyousuke from the third year classroom preparing to jump into the second year classroom window. Still doesn't answer anything, but just something I wanted to tell you. XD

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Art direction IMO was the best of the key work adaptations. From the very beginning the washed up, old school look gave the series a dreamy feel, and who would've thought that this was just a hint that this isn't reality we are seeing. Really interesting when you contrast it with how sharp the reality scenes looked.

Meh, art was top notch and when you cap a screenshot of a scene it looks amazing, but animation wasn't. Disappointed in the visual animation as it would've given the series more expression and impact to the scenes.

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

That said, I do think the music is the weakest of all the Key adaptations. I dunno, it just seemed a wee bit repetitive, and some scenes could've used actual music. Doesn't help that I didn't like either of the Refrain's OP or ED, but eh, music is like lowest weight in my criteria.

I think LB's music is the best though? Probably because those ending songs for the character's endings was so abused in the anime that it just turned dull... EX will have new music, so hope JC STAFF will make use of it's VN sources properly...

Originally Posted by kitten320

Thirdly all that dramatic build up from before was for nothing and fully wasted. The ending really reminded of Mai HiME. Though Mai HiME still handled it better and irritated me less.
When Kyouseke said that Riki and Rin are the only ones alive, I did take it as everyone else are already dead, not unconscious.

Here we go again... Since when did Kyousuke explicitly said that Rin and Riki were the only ones alive? He only said "We are not going to make it". That just implies that Kyousuke didn't hope for Riki to be able to save everyone.

...and why do you think it's wasted? From the outside it looks like a dramatic build-up with a complete happy ending that wasted the build-up, but why do you think Kyousuke went through all that 'Become stronger, Riki! Surpass me!" stuff? In the end, Kyousuke basically gave up on trying to get Riki to surpass him, and just simply believed that he should become strong enough to handle on his own to protect Rin since he was running out of time. That's why he told Riki to protect Rin no matter what happens afterwards. Forget Rin, Kyousuke never would've thought Riki would end up having enough courage to save everyone with Rin. Riki could've had a narcolepsy attack anytime so Kyousuke thought that it would've been impossible for Riki to save everyone. But look, Riki managed to fix the problem and source of his own narcolepsy all on his own hecause of the emotional strength he's gained from Kyousuke's help. With Rin's help, he saved everyone and surpassed Kyousuke without himself knowing. Kysousuke was surprised, as he even tells Riki how Riki finally surpassed him after accomplishing what would've been impossible possible.

Originally Posted by kitten320

And fourth... since Haruka's arc was my fave, I'm extremely disappointed with the fact that we didn't get a single scene with the sisters this season. Especially after the accident, like for example a scene in the hospital or something. Mai HiME at least gave some conclusion to characters stories while here "Yeh we all lived happy, THE END!"
Even transition from sad to happy was handled there better while here "BAM! Explosion! And we lived happily ever after."
Like really?
It was really underwhelming and unemotional. Probably my least favourite ending out of all Key works.

This is why many vn readers are hating on this ending, it ruined the moment since it was rushed like hell. I loved it anyway though despite the haters... because who doesn't like a happy ending? I don't think it was that forced... but I can agree that the anime's delivery of the ending was failure to most people. To me it was emotional though, so I don't know what you were looking for... a sad ending? or a dragged out ending that will soon lead to the happy ending?

Originally Posted by kitten320

We also never found out who is that girl with an eye patch and why she has such strong influence on Kengo. I was disappointed so I checked and found some info from VN myself.

Spoiler for info that was not revealed in anime:

I think it is very important to know that she is actually DEAD.

Important info not added, don't know why... meh. So I agree with this too. Another reason for vn haters to hate... :\

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I'm inclined to think that the Kanata in the real world never made up with Haruka. The Kanata in Kyousuke's fake time-loop world is likely a total fabrication.

Yes, one of the sad implications here is that a lot of the secondary heroine arcs lose some of their impact once you realize it all took place in a dream world. But that would have been true even if Riki and Rin were the only two people to survive.

Well let's hope that EX will give us something in Kanata's route about this. XD
I don't think it lost imact though. Since Mio, Yuiko and Haruka remembers what went on in the dream world, that just means that Mio isn't going to use her umbrella anymore, Haruka will make up with her sister now (that has no knowledge of all this, but since it worked out in the dream world then it should also work out in the real world), Yuiko will have realized she has a place to belong to now as well as feeling a feel she's never felt before (aka love) + not having to worry about the limits of what you want, and Komari's memories of her brother is accepted. But think about Kud's situation, doesn't that mean that Kud's family is dead? I think it's kind of a half-half thing. That's why I don't think it lost impact. Since Kyousuke called it "the girl's regrets" then that just means it's past-tense for all the girl's situations. Kud can never go back to redo her regret since it's not something you could fix if given a second chance.

[kitten320]

How exactly does this world make sense? Ok they created it through their sheer will, I can buy that. But what about the occupants? They have other students, terrorists, parents, hospitals and etc. How did all of this people get there?

If they were just part of imagination then it makes half of those arcs useless. Especially Haruka's whose arc was actually the best one with Kurugaya's second best. Every other was pretty meh. And now you are telling me that it barely played any role?

No matter how I look at it, Little Busters is the weakest of Key works. It left a lot of things unanswered and whole build up and drama had very small to no impact at all on me in all those arcs.
Every other Key work made me feel something but here it's just "Oh cool, problem solved. Whose next?"
As I said, only Haruka's and Kurugaya's had some kind of impact on me as well as some small moment here and there like for example Kengo's breakdown when he saw Miyuki and yet we never got any info on her.

Over all I would rate Little Busters as 6/10.
Very weak considering that other Key works I rated at 8 and 9.

[Magicflier]

Originally Posted by kitten320

How exactly does this world make sense? Ok they created it through their sheer will, I can buy that. But what about the occupants? They have other students, terrorists, parents, hospitals and etc. How did all of this people get there?

If they were just part of imagination then it makes half of those arcs useless. Especially Haruka's whose arc was actually the best one with Kurugaya's second best. Every other was pretty meh. And now you are telling me that it barely played any role?

No matter how I look at it, Little Busters is the weakest of Key works. It left a lot of things unanswered and whole build up and drama had very small to no impact at all on me in all those arcs.
Every other Key work made me feel something but here it's just "Oh cool, problem solved. Whose next?"
As I said, only Haruka's and Kurugaya's had some kind of impact on me as well as some small moment here and there like for example Kengo's breakdown when he saw Miyuki and yet we never got any info on her.

Over all I would rate Little Busters as 6/10.
Very weak considering that other Key works I rated at 8 and 9.

Don't question the Key Magic. Yea, they created the world together. It's the explanations to get to this point that makes the most sense compared to every other Key ending. Occupants/Other students were obviously created as well, including Haruka's sister, Kanata. There are no hospitals, and the school has dormitories so parents aren't there. If there were parents, they'll be created by the ol'mighty Kyousuke anyway. (I'm pretty sure there was a few that appeared here and there, just count these people as NPCs of some sort)

If you want to question Key, start with Clannad's...

Spoiler for end of Clannad After Story:

alternative world with that Ushio clone, it's orbs, and it's somehow alternate happy ending.

Kyousuke said that he took in specific girls who had regrets in their lives, and they simply helped Kyousuke create the world unconsciously. He got them involved into the plan, without their consent, hence Kyousuke saying the girls start to realize it was a dream world in episode 10. Kud realized a lot sooner than all the other girls because of her abnormal regret. They played a role simply because of that! They helped Kyousuke hold the world even if it's only for a big longer. Creating such a dream world alone is probably impossible. I think Kyousuke mentioned that he was able to create the dream world from the manifestation of the girl's regrets that he got involved.
http://imgur.com/a/fSJLK
Also please read this, it's complied by Vladz0r from MAL. It will also answer any of your questions regarding this.

I just wanted to tell you that you have no right to call Little Busters the weakest of Key's work if you haven't played and compared any of their visual novels. It's the weakest adaption though. If you say "Key's work" then you are referring to the source of the anime adaptions, not the anime adaptions. Excluding Air, I played Kanon, Clannad, Little Busters EX, Tomoyo After, Kud Wafter and Rewrite; and I can say with confidence that Little Busters is the top Key work. You should also understand that this is my opinion, and that opinions differ. How you think that LB "is the weakest Key work" is your own opinion too, so don't make it sound as if your opinion is the biggest fact of the century.

Despite it being a bad adaption, I still got emotionally moved and even teared up a total of 3 times in this whole series, I really connected with the character's circumstances. Too bad it didn't move me as far as how it did in the LB visual novel. Since it should be hard to even tear me up from anime or show in general, LB was the only Key work that actually made me cry; reason why I think of it so highly. I got moved more here with LB than with any other Key work, but Clannad's adaption portrayed it's emotions way better than Little Busters adaption. LB anime was horrid, yet people were still able to love it's anime without any knowledge of the visual novel. That's why this is a matter of how well your connecting with the characters. I know people like you who didn't feel much out of this, even felt everything was forced; but others did actually tear up from what I read, some of my friends cried from the anime (which is shocking...). Everyone has mixed feelings about the ending. Some where really happy it had a great ending for the cast they love so much, others preferred everyone dead to get rid of that "forced happiness" pulled out for the sake of a happy ending. In the end the series played with everyone's emotions and tricked the viewer as it ended up happy after a dramatic buildup. Could be a charm of LB's story? Maybe. So like I said, it's a matter of connecting with the characters. That just means you couldn't connect with the characters well enough. Though I know that doesn't change the fact that this was a horrible adaption and everything needed more buildup, it's still not as horrible as Kanon's or Angel Beats' adaptions. If you loved those more, then good for you. In my opinion LB's anime overtook Kanon and Angel Beats' adaptions.