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Ithekro · 2012-09-14, 19:58

The only probability would be if there was some sort of problem that changes with scale that can't be mesured in a lab as the scale needed is too large? Planetary scale?

There have been times when a generally accepted scientific model has been proven wrong because the science of the time lacked a piece of data they could not observe. Or a force observed was actaully the counterforce to something else they had not considered.

I recall someone suggesting that gravity was related to the amount as atmosphere a planet had, or that is was a centripital force pushing down on things rather than pulling down on things. I don't recall the entire argument presently. It was the sort of science one would get if you decided to not take Newton and such at their word and looked at things backwards to see currect scientists have missed something because they are too locked into old theories.

MakubeX2 · 2012-09-14, 20:10

All these reeks of the Segway Hype

Lots of hyperbole, but lacks of substance. If there is any at all.

And those hyperlinks are all internal. You need external links to creditable sources if you want the research to be taken seriously. Like some sort of article in Science, even a slight mention, will be suffice.

Sugetsu · 2012-09-14, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

Sounds nice, except the mathematics of it just wouldn't work.

The principles of magnetism are extremely well established. What he says is simply absurd. Read yourself, it's not hard to understand.

You are claiming that you understand gravity better than he does, when in fact the force of gravity is one of the biggest mysteries in the world of science to date.

It is one of the weakest forces in the universe and its origins are unknown. Membrane theory claims that is a product of the 11th dimension, which is one of the principal reasons why quantum physicists are employing the Hadron Collider in order to prove the existence of the Higgs boson, which is supposed to confirm that all matter originates from that particle.

Apparently, the evidence seems to point out the existance of this "God particle", which is why I remain highly skeptical of Keshe's claims in regards to gravity and mass. The problem is whether his research is compatible with the current developments. String and membrane theories encountered the same problem, as both theories were initially incompatible with each other but ultimately proved to be able to coexist in Quantum Mechanics and Special Relativity equations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

All these reeks of the Segway Hype

Lots of hyperbole, but lacks of substance. If there is any at all.

And those hyperlinks are all internal. You need an external links to a creditable source if you want the research to be taken seriously. Like some sort of article in Science, even a slight mention, will be suffice.

That's the big problem, I can't find any reputable journal to back his climbs, but I don't dismiss them. The foundation claims that its founding principles are based on Tesla's work. After all the guy says that he can create plasma batteries that can solve the world's energy problems once and for all, and you know very well that if those claims were to be true it would be a devastating blow to the energy industry, which is the world's richest. They have already done what they can to fight the global warming theory.

When a person discovers something that challenges the establishment he is bound to encounter serious push back. As I already posted before, the Kesh foundation received a surprise inspection from the Belgian government under the claim of nuclear threat and confiscated a lot of their materials, as well as denying them a license to publicly demonstrate their technology.

DonQuigleone · 2012-09-14, 20:29

Gravity doesn't work that way.

If you do the Math, there isn't really any alternative explanations.

Also, experiments have been done to measure gravity. In labs they have held objects close together and measured the negligible gravitational force between them.

If you read the physics most of it makes sense. It's only when you go into quantum physics and relativity that things get very hard. But Newtonian mechanics, which is right 99% of the time, is readily understandable, and will conform to your own everyday experiences. It's quite elegant.

If you want to build your understanding of physics I'd ignore Quantum physics and relativity, those two are irrelevant for most of what you see around you (even if they might seem to be in the news quite often).

And unlike what Keshe is proposing here, quantum and relativity were not complete revolutions from Newtonian physics. They're more like extensions, solving inconsistencies between predictions based on Newtonian mechanics and observations in reality.

But to proceed you need to learn the foundational stuff. Force, mass, acceleration, heat transfer, and all that everyday stuff. It may not seem as glamorous as quarks and gluons, but I think it's much more interesting, due to it's relatability to real life.

Cosmic Eagle · 2012-09-14, 20:37

This sounds similar actually to another theory being proposed..subquantum kinetics and electrogravitics..I've yet to actually see solid science-based counter argument from the conventional physics side rather than just lambasting the theories as crap.

I would love to see a proper scientifc debate over this. google scholar search results are very one sided unfortunately

MakubeX2 · 2012-09-14, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugetsu

When a person discovers something that challenges the establishment he is bound to encounter serious push back. As I already posted before, the Kesh foundation received a surprise inspection from the Belgian government under the claim of nuclear threat and confiscated a lot of their materials, as well as denying them a license to publicly demonstrate their technology.

You do not need a working prototype of the research. All you need to do is to write an article and send it in where it will be assessed by fellow peers and scientists, not by some authority. If the subject is creditable and convincing, it will be published.

Cosmic Eagle · 2012-09-14, 20:58

I wonder what he means by electrons and such are plasma though...that makes no sense. Unless he means "plasma" as more like "ether"

sa547 · 2012-09-14, 21:13

I don't know whether to laugh, cry, facepalm or orz. That's all.

Sugetsu · 2012-09-14, 21:14

I think I found something significant by an external source. The source is PES Network, inc,

Quote:

PES Network, Inc. is a news, directory and networking service to identify extreme cutting-edge, clean energy technologies capable of making it to market and making a large impact, and to facilitate their progress by helping to plug them into whatever resources they need to move forward, thereby promoting a sustainable future, inviting all energy enthusiasts to participate in the effort.

http://peswiki.com

Here is the article I found on the Keshe foundation. Pay special attention the comments section of the article; they seem quite skeptical of it: http://pesn.com/2012/07/13/9602134_K...r_world_peace/

Quote:

Keshe Foundation to release Magravs technology in September for world peace

"On 21 September 2012 the Keshe Foundation will release the first phase of its space technology and the gravitational and magnetic (Magravs) systems it has developed, to all scientists around the world simultaneously, for production and duplication... The energy crisis will be resolved at a stroke... The world water shortage will be addressed and resolved."

Intro by Sterling D. Allan
Pure Energy Systems News

I've received several emails today bringing this development to my attention, asking what I know about it and what my thoughts are.

As those of you who follow our news know, we've been tracking the Keshe Foundation for several years. One of our stories is listed as the most popular on the Keshe website.

As much as I would like to believe that something will materialize here, I have to admit that I am skeptical on this one.

Here is their announcement, quoting from http://www.keshefoundation.org/.../3...-of-technology

Another thing I found interesting on their website is a video of the opening of their Kf Center in Ninove in March, 2012. When a company opens a center, you can't really ignore them or completely dismiss them. That takes a lot and says a lot.

Here is a whole wiki by PES following the Kesh foundation and its work:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Keshe_Foundation

-----

But the following news is really quite interesting. Remember the news when Iran captured a US spy drone flying over its territory without damaging it? Well apparently Iran employed Kesh technology to accomplish to the task.

Xenio · 2012-09-14, 22:10

travel from Tehran to New York will be about 10 minutes? arcording to Google Maps Distance Calculator, the distance is about 9867.187 km, which mean that unless they teleport, whatever use to travel will travel at about 16445 m/s or 59202 km/h, is that even possible without killing everyone inside or friction tearing the thing apart? 0_o, and how the hell are they going to decelerate?

aohige · 2012-09-14, 22:33

This is how religion is born.

SaintessHeart · 2012-09-14, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenio

travel from Tehran to New York will be about 10 minutes? arcording to Google Maps Distance Calculator, the distance is about 9867.187 km, which mean that unless they teleport, whatever use to travel will travel at about 16445 m/s or 59202 km/h, is that even possible without killing everyone inside or friction tearing the thing apart? 0_o, and how the hell are they going to decelerate?

Beam me up, Scotty.

Ithekro · 2012-09-14, 23:19

Wormholes.

Sugetsu · 2012-09-14, 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenio

travel from Tehran to New York will be about 10 minutes? arcording to Google Maps Distance Calculator, the distance is about 9867.187 km, which mean that unless they teleport, whatever use to travel will travel at about 16445 m/s or 59202 km/h, is that even possible without killing everyone inside or friction tearing the thing apart? 0_o, and how the hell are they going to decelerate?

That isn't the only fantastic claim, in case you have not realize it

Ithekro · 2012-09-14, 23:30

I recall claims of wormholes being developed to make the large nuclear assets unneeded between the larger powers, as they could open one up from Washington to Moscow and deliver a much smaller nuclear package directly to Putin's office desk.

It isn't as easy with other powers nor terrorists as the coordinate system needed was extremely complex or something and couldn't be done on the fly to say Anywhere, Iran for instance or up the street a ways and down a kilometer to the bunker. It just wasn't that good that quickly.

It is all speculative fiction anyway.

Kimidori · 2012-09-14, 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Wormholes.

it say "flight" though

Quote:

From that point on, international borders will cease to have any real significance. This is because, once the first flight system has been built and put into operation by public, the time of travel for example from Tehran to New York will be about 10 minutes maximum.

Sugetsu · 2012-09-15, 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimidori

it say "flight" though

I would say that a more plausible way to achieve safe acceleration and deceleration would be to somehow nullify the law of inertia, perhaps through magnetism.

Ithekro · 2012-09-15, 00:04

One can fly through a wormhole. It might be needed due to some sort of inability to simply walk through it.

Raiga · 2012-09-15, 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugetsu

You are claiming that you understand gravity better than he does, when in fact the force of gravity is one of the biggest mysteries in the world of science to date.

It is one of the weakest forces in the universe and its origins are unknown. Membrane theory claims that is a product of the 11th dimension, which is one of the principal reasons why quantum physicists are employing the Hadron Collider in order to prove the existence of the Higgs boson, which is supposed to confirm that all matter originates from that particle.

Apparently, the evidence seems to point out the existance of this "God particle", which is why I remain highly skeptical of Keshe's claims in regards to gravity and mass. The problem is whether his research is compatible with the current developments. String and membrane theories encountered the same problem, as both theories were initially incompatible with each other but ultimately proved to be able to coexist in Quantum Mechanics and Special Relativity equations.

No.

Stop.

By all means go back to reading CERN publications, but don't use the simplified science you read about on CNN to justify giving Keshe the benefit of the doubt.

I am very sure that Don does understand gravity better than Keshe does, because my 10-year-old sister understands gravity better than Keshe does. If I had a dog, my dog would understand gravity better than Keshe does, because the dog would understand how a baseball flies when thrown.

There's a lot of unanswered questions about the fundamental mechanics of gravity, but the phenomenon itself is understood extremely well. You may not know exactly how your car works, but you know that if you pull on the steering wheel your car won't start flying. By claiming that electromagnetism can produce gravity, he's basically claiming that a ground car can fly. He's claiming that if you rub your hands together, a genie will appear. Quite simply, it doesn't work like that.

I challenge you to find me anybody who has taken an introductory college physics course who buys this video. He bullshits on such a fundamental level that it's hardly worth pointing out the errors. The errors are "everything!"

There is no reason to give Keshe any benefit of the doubt. It's a scam. A hoax. A sham. Snake oil. I am not 100% confident that the Big Bang happened, but I'm 100% confident that Keshe doesn't know shit about science.

MakubeX2 · 2012-09-15, 02:56

With such fantastical claims and no creditable sources to back it up, I'm incline to think this is a lame attempt at viral marketing.

2012-09-14, 19:58	Link #21
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	The only probability would be if there was some sort of problem that changes with scale that can't be mesured in a lab as the scale needed is too large? Planetary scale? There have been times when a generally accepted scientific model has been proven wrong because the science of the time lacked a piece of data they could not observe. Or a force observed was actaully the counterforce to something else they had not considered. I recall someone suggesting that gravity was related to the amount as atmosphere a planet had, or that is was a centripital force pushing down on things rather than pulling down on things. I don't recall the entire argument presently. It was the sort of science one would get if you decided to not take Newton and such at their word and looked at things backwards to see currect scientists have missed something because they are too locked into old theories. __________________

2012-09-14, 20:10	Link #22
MakubeX2 うるとらぺど Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 44	All these reeks of the Segway Hype Lots of hyperbole, but lacks of substance. If there is any at all. And those hyperlinks are all internal. You need external links to creditable sources if you want the research to be taken seriously. Like some sort of article in Science, even a slight mention, will be suffice. Last edited by MakubeX2; 2012-09-14 at 20:24.

2012-09-14, 20:37	Link #25
Cosmic Eagle 今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている Join Date: Jan 2009	This sounds similar actually to another theory being proposed..subquantum kinetics and electrogravitics..I've yet to actually see solid science-based counter argument from the conventional physics side rather than just lambasting the theories as crap. I would love to see a proper scientifc debate over this. google scholar search results are very one sided unfortunately __________________

2012-09-14, 20:58	Link #27
Cosmic Eagle 今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている Join Date: Jan 2009	I wonder what he means by electrons and such are plasma though...that makes no sense. Unless he means "plasma" as more like "ether" __________________

2012-09-14, 21:13	Link #28
sa547 Senior Member Author Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Philippines Age: 47	I don't know whether to laugh, cry, facepalm or orz. That's all. __________________

2012-09-14, 20:29	Link #24
DonQuigleone Knight Errant Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Age: 35	Gravity doesn't work that way. If you do the Math, there isn't really any alternative explanations. Also, experiments have been done to measure gravity. In labs they have held objects close together and measured the negligible gravitational force between them. If you read the physics most of it makes sense. It's only when you go into quantum physics and relativity that things get very hard. But Newtonian mechanics, which is right 99% of the time, is readily understandable, and will conform to your own everyday experiences. It's quite elegant. If you want to build your understanding of physics I'd ignore Quantum physics and relativity, those two are irrelevant for most of what you see around you (even if they might seem to be in the news quite often). And unlike what Keshe is proposing here, quantum and relativity were not complete revolutions from Newtonian physics. They're more like extensions, solving inconsistencies between predictions based on Newtonian mechanics and observations in reality. But to proceed you need to learn the foundational stuff. Force, mass, acceleration, heat transfer, and all that everyday stuff. It may not seem as glamorous as quarks and gluons, but I think it's much more interesting, due to it's relatability to real life.

2012-09-14, 22:10	Link #30
Xenio Flower Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Somewhere in Asia	travel from Tehran to New York will be about 10 minutes? arcording to Google Maps Distance Calculator, the distance is about 9867.187 km, which mean that unless they teleport, whatever use to travel will travel at about 16445 m/s or 59202 km/h, is that even possible without killing everyone inside or friction tearing the thing apart? 0_o, and how the hell are they going to decelerate?

2012-09-14, 22:33	Link #31
aohige ( ಠ_ಠ) Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep	This is how religion is born. __________________

2012-09-14, 23:19	Link #33
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Wormholes. __________________

2012-09-14, 23:30	Link #35
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	I recall claims of wormholes being developed to make the large nuclear assets unneeded between the larger powers, as they could open one up from Washington to Moscow and deliver a much smaller nuclear package directly to Putin's office desk. It isn't as easy with other powers nor terrorists as the coordinate system needed was extremely complex or something and couldn't be done on the fly to say Anywhere, Iran for instance or up the street a ways and down a kilometer to the bunker. It just wasn't that good that quickly. It is all speculative fiction anyway. __________________

2012-09-15, 00:04	Link #38
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	One can fly through a wormhole. It might be needed due to some sort of inability to simply walk through it. __________________

2012-09-15, 02:56	Link #40
MakubeX2 うるとらぺど Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 44	With such fantastical claims and no creditable sources to back it up, I'm incline to think this is a lame attempt at viral marketing.