AnimeSuki Forums

Sorrow-K · 2007-08-21, 06:56

I think the problem with this season is that it's suffering from the identity crisis that the first series managed to avoid by not taking itself seriously. The way this series, particularly in this ep as well as some of the other worse ones, is constantly and clumsily jumping between drama and comedy is really jarring to say the least. The fact that Saito and Louise's relationship is going nowhere is pretty much killing the romantic aspect of this show as well.

But what really hurts is that Aines' backstory, which has consumed most of the last two eps, is just not interesting. It's hard to care to begin with, but I just can't see what impact it's going to have on the plot down the line, so it really feels like a waste of time... time they could be using to develop more interesting characters or, (arguably more importantly) Saito and Louise's relationship.

It's disappointing that such a highly enjoyable first season has devolved into such an inane and poorly manages second season. I think, now is the time for the blame games to begin, and my finger is pointing squarely at the director, Kou Yuu, who seemingly lacks (first series' director) Iwasaki's appreciation of the source material and ability to know when to use comedy and when to take things seriously.

Shiroth · 2007-08-21, 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Also, what role did Colbert play in the massacre of Agnes' hometown? And did the think a plague was a good enough motivation to burn people alive?

Especially after the running scene, i think that

Spoiler:

Sinestra · 2007-08-21, 07:55

Not a horrible episode but to me it was very boring no advancement in the plot and the humore was mediocre at best. However there were good parts just to be fair. Julios hair was freakin funny and Seito's reaction of a chilled iceberg when he said they were more like his best friends.

Can pretty much guess that Colbert was the one that saved Anies after all he is a Saint like that. Plus after Anies starts talking about her past and Colbert realizes what incident she was talking about everything seemed to click in his mind who she was. After all how many people know that their was a suvivor. PLus he started talking about falling in love and he was staring at her when Seito caught him.

Of course Siesta in that 2 sizes to small sailor outfit was GAAAAAAAAAAAAA nose blood all over. But the best had to be her little slip of the tounge about Louise having no breast was too funny for words.

Im going to agree with the above post i dont think that Kou Yuu really knows what direction to take the series in and just where to use comedy and when for it to take a backseat to the main story. Ther humore feels pushed on you and at times when things need to be serious a not so funny joke or same old material is brought in. Very disappointing im still enjoying the series but not as much as the first season

Did anyone else find it funny when Louise said "ill tolrate it for now but tonight your going to get it"? I had so many thoughts flow through my head about that comment plust Seito didnt look to upset about it.

OMGWTFHAXBBQ · 2007-08-21, 08:17

I bet Colbert played an important role in the war.

1. I bet he's the one who saved Anies form the fire
2. He's a fire mage, so it makes him more suspicious.
3. I bet he's the one commander guy that Anies was talking about who's still alive.
4. He's the one tore the page out.

Anh_Minh · 2007-08-21, 08:30

I didn't take the first series seriously. I don't take this one seriously either. So I can still enjoy it, despite the lack of plot.

The only thing I really regret is the lack of Tabitha and Kirche.

Sinestra · 2007-08-21, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

The only thing I really regret is the lack of Tabitha and Kirche.

Your right i do miss having them around. During the first season season Tabitha was my favorite character. Its such a shame their rolls have been reduced to the opening credits

Darknemo2000 · 2007-08-21, 10:28

Sorrow-K, actually I think that the main reason why this feels so bad is actually a bad direction of the first series... I think that its mostly Iwasaki's misatkes that we are seeing now...Why?

If you read novels you noticesd that while first voilume didnt had much serious moments second volume started to mix up seriousness with comedy, that later become one of the trademarks of ZnT. Srious scenes here a mixing well with comedy ones and dont lkill the general flow of the story.

In first season they turned it all into comedy. While they managed to get away with dumbing down the second volume, even from that point I allready saw they they will come into problems later. They used up the most comedy scenes and where left with more serious material. But they cant really face the serious material without killing the general comedy feeling of the first season.

But this is mostly because Iwasaki screwed up to begin with. He took in all comedy scenes while leaving the serious ones out. Now that becomes a real problem to Kou Yuu, as he doesnt want too lose the flow of the first season, but for thet he would need to rewrite the whole novels, since the first season butchered the serious parts of it they become allien to the story while in the novels they mix well.

So I really think you guys should look back a bit and see the roots of the flaws that we see right now. Simple the first season though good on the comedy, used TOO much of it, making it into ONLY comedy series while novels is based on comedy it has quite a bit of serious scenes as well.

So what can Kou Yuu do? He is cornered. There arent much comedy left as most tasty bits were taken by the first season, and he cant really get back to serious parts since like in Henreitta/Wales episode it might not turn out too well, and would feel like something different, that does not belong here.

Lets face it guys: ZnT anime is probably the worst of all recent animes that were born following the novels . Both seasons are just a badly done parody of it and nothing more. The only reason why this season feels worse is because it was borned from rotten seeds of the first one (yeah it managed to cover its flaws pretty well, but we can see where it lead clearly now).

S_K · 2007-08-21, 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMGWTFHAXBBQ

I bet Colbert played an important role in the war.

1. I bet he's the one who saved Anies form the fire
2. He's a fire mage, so it makes him more suspicious.
3. I bet he's the one commander guy that Anies was talking about who's still alive.
4. He's the one tore the page out.

I have the exact same thought as you, I also thought that Colbert saved Anies

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I didn't take the first series seriously. I don't take this one seriously either. So I can still enjoy it, despite the lack of plot.

The only thing I really regret is the lack of Tabitha and Kirche.

Well they're probably going to show Tabitha and Kirche soon hopefully
This show was never serious to begin with, each episode contains very little elements of plot

SAILOR UNIFORM!!!!!

asdffdsa · 2007-08-21, 12:04

I don't actually feel the whole season is bad. I am actually really enjoying it (with the exception of this episode). They just need to drop this Anies storyline, avoid any fillers/originals whatsoever (is there really any reason to make fillers with all of the novel content that is available?), re-focus on Saito and Louise, and stop ending the episodes with Louise going berserk on Saito. Yeah, it's funny seeing Louise show her Tsundere/S&M side now and then, but at this point, episode 4 (boat scene) seems like it never even happened.

Oh, and if the very last scene of this anime is Louise getting pissed off at Saito, well...

.../wrists.

Kazuma77 · 2007-08-21, 13:41

i am only at half of the episode, and my stomac hurts from laughing

"I, I, I don't have breats right? As flat as an airport runway, right?"

Sinestra · 2007-08-21, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazuma77

i am only at half of the episode, and my stomac hurts from laughing

"I, I, I don't have breats right? As flat as an airport runway, right?"

SCORE!!! god that was funny i dont know whats worse the fact that Louise actually said it or the fact that she actually aknowledges shes that flat

I damand more Tabitha

mist2123 · 2007-08-21, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazuma77

i am only at half of the episode, and my stomac hurts from laughing

"I, I, I don't have breats right? As flat as an airport runway, right?"

how does she even know the airport runway??? they cant even make a simple electromagnet

Ellis · 2007-08-21, 18:44

This episode was pretty nice ! I just love to see things as letters or inscriptions written in french

Sorrow-K · 2007-08-21, 20:54

Darknemo2000: I don't really judge anime by their loyalty to the source material. I can see that Iwasaki probably took liberties with the first series, particularly with the tone, but the result was a very enjoyable take on a fairly cliched premise. There was probably an inevitability that the second season wasn't going to be as enjoyable as the first given the fact that the source material moving into more serious ground was going to jarr with Iwasaki's somewhat tongue-in-cheek style, but that doesn't change the fact that Kou's handling of mood has been clumsy in this series, and he hasn't done enough to separate out the serious and light moments in the story and put clear, obvious borders between them. I mean, in the first series, when things got serious, like they did for Tabitha's backstory, there was a clear boundary between the heavier material and the light stuff in that ep (which, from memory, was the stuff leading up to Louise going under the effect of the love potion). Here we have Siesta in sailor fuku right beside Aines' revenge quest, and it's hard for the audience to make the right transition in mood to swallow the serious story when it's being intermixed with the light comic relief in the ep. This is what I have against Kou's style... there should be more effort to keep the two contrasts apart, if he wants us to take the serious stuff seriously.

I don't disagree that the problems were inevitable, or, at best, would have been difficult to avoid given the directions the source material took, but one must question, why was the second season even made if people suspected this was going to happen? I mean, the first season ended at a pretty satisfactory point... it wasn't like Higurashi or Honey & Clover that chose really bad places to end their first seasons and needed sequels to complete the story.

OMGWTFHAXBBQ · 2007-08-21, 21:03

Siesta was HAWT in this episode.

Echoes · 2007-08-21, 21:55

I'm enjoying the second season a lot, though I thought it had sort of a rough start, I still look forward to each episode, and my expectations are always met.

I don't mind any of the flaws that have been pointed out here, because, simply put, I just enjoy watching Zero no Tsukaima very much. I can't articulate it more eloquently, I just like the random mixes of sides stories, humor and drama, and I think the characters make the show great, regardless.

Darknemo2000 · 2007-08-22, 03:02

Sorrow-K, I cannot disagree with you as well my friend. i never said that Kou is better than Iwasaki. Actually, I think that better director (better than Kou or Iwasaki) could still handle this season pretty well even considering the flaws made in the first season.

Kou doesnt have much talent. We can obviously see that when he tries to push in humour that he made himself (like Louise beating Saitoo in every ending of the epsiode or other fillers in). Its rather repetetive and boring. On the other hand, since Iwasaki took out many comedy scenes from later volumes and took them in first season, Kou is left with too much seriousness on his hands, and he has to make new comedy scenes to not stray away from the first season. He is bad at it, without a doubt, but again we shouldnt balme just him. He is cornered to begin with.

Now to answer why did they start new season...well think about it...They only covered first 2-3 volumes of the novels, fans would be quite a bit annoyed if they would have stopped there. Not to mention that more epsiodes = more money.

The bad part is, that because of Iwasakis mistakes in chosing tone of the anime, now character development is also practically non-existant. Specially talking about Louise and Saito relationship. It doesnt move or if moves, the in sudden jumps that look weird. ofcourse if you are not Louise fan and you havent read novels then its not too big problem (frankly speaking, if I had watched anime only then Louise would have never been one of my favorite caharcters, shes way too annoying here), but if you read novels you have to rather dissapointed with the way anime traets novels and its caharcters.

As for this episode...Anes story is way to long for only 12 episodes. In novels it wasnt all that great. They skip interesting scenes while replacing them with one of the most boring ones, and putting the repetative and not-funny Kou's humour on it.

I dont understand why did the JC Staff did so badly with animation of ZnT considering that they did Shana pretty well...

Guido · 2007-08-22, 19:02

The episode wasn't good but at least decent. The reason why I give it a seven is due that the writers are outstretching Agne's side-plot on her quest for revenge, but there have been no much development from the other party; Sheffield mounting the troops at Albion.

We haven't seen anything else from Sheffield since episode two, and I'm doubting if with the remaining episodes the animation staff would be able to pick up a proper pacing to give enough time to develop the crisis of the war against Albion.

However, at least the prologue to the episode made a little but significant progression with Henrietta, although opposed, signing the treaty.

I still well enjoyed the newly-introduced twists to Agne's side-plot.

Spoiler:

Darklightz · 2007-08-22, 19:51

I think it was Colbert who saved Agnies in that fire.

I'm not sure I like the new slutty Siesta. I like her much more in season one.

And well,the whole "Male lead gets in naughty situation so the female lead beats him up" scenario has been done and overdone so many times it's just not interesting at all.

OMGWTFHAXBBQ · 2007-08-22, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darklightz

I think it was Colbert who saved Agnies in that fire.

I'm not sure I like the new slutty Siesta. I like her much more in season one.

And well,the whole "Male lead gets in naughty situation so the female lead beats him up" scenario has been done and overdone so many times it's just not interesting at all.

Hmm? I love the new slutty Siesta.

View Poll Results: Zero no Tsukaima (second series) - Episode 7 Rating
Perfect 10	2	4.00%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	8	16.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	11	22.00%
7 out of 10 : Good	16	32.00%
6 out of 10 : Average	11	22.00%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	0	0%
4 out of 10 : Poor	2	4.00%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	0	0%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

2007-08-21, 06:56	Link #21
Sorrow-K Somehow I found out Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 40	I think the problem with this season is that it's suffering from the identity crisis that the first series managed to avoid by not taking itself seriously. The way this series, particularly in this ep as well as some of the other worse ones, is constantly and clumsily jumping between drama and comedy is really jarring to say the least. The fact that Saito and Louise's relationship is going nowhere is pretty much killing the romantic aspect of this show as well. But what really hurts is that Aines' backstory, which has consumed most of the last two eps, is just not interesting. It's hard to care to begin with, but I just can't see what impact it's going to have on the plot down the line, so it really feels like a waste of time... time they could be using to develop more interesting characters or, (arguably more importantly) Saito and Louise's relationship. It's disappointing that such a highly enjoyable first season has devolved into such an inane and poorly manages second season. I think, now is the time for the blame games to begin, and my finger is pointing squarely at the director, Kou Yuu, who seemingly lacks (first series' director) Iwasaki's appreciation of the source material and ability to know when to use comedy and when to take things seriously. __________________ .:The Nihon Review:.:Ikoku Meiro no Croisée:.:Tamayura: Hitotose:. .:Behind The Nihon Review:.:Understanding Guilty Crown’s Failure:. .:MAL:.:Twitter:.

2007-08-21, 07:55	Link #23
Sinestra ション (^^) IT Support Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Freedom Guard Ship Amaterasu	Not a horrible episode but to me it was very boring no advancement in the plot and the humore was mediocre at best. However there were good parts just to be fair. Julios hair was freakin funny and Seito's reaction of a chilled iceberg when he said they were more like his best friends. Can pretty much guess that Colbert was the one that saved Anies after all he is a Saint like that. Plus after Anies starts talking about her past and Colbert realizes what incident she was talking about everything seemed to click in his mind who she was. After all how many people know that their was a suvivor. PLus he started talking about falling in love and he was staring at her when Seito caught him. Of course Siesta in that 2 sizes to small sailor outfit was GAAAAAAAAAAAAA nose blood all over. But the best had to be her little slip of the tounge about Louise having no breast was too funny for words. Im going to agree with the above post i dont think that Kou Yuu really knows what direction to take the series in and just where to use comedy and when for it to take a backseat to the main story. Ther humore feels pushed on you and at times when things need to be serious a not so funny joke or same old material is brought in. Very disappointing im still enjoying the series but not as much as the first season Did anyone else find it funny when Louise said "ill tolrate it for now but tonight your going to get it"? I had so many thoughts flow through my head about that comment plust Seito didnt look to upset about it. __________________

2007-08-21, 13:41	Link #30
Kazuma77 Kakashi Fangirl Join Date: Jul 2007 Age: 39	i am only at half of the episode, and my stomac hurts from laughing "I, I, I don't have breats right? As flat as an airport runway, right?" __________________ ~Ladies, if a guy ever tells you, he wants to cover you from head to toe in honey, and lick it all off inch by inch, that's the man who hasn't done it before. You start at her toes, and before you get to anything interesting, she is asleep and you are in diabetic coma ~ Last edited by Kazuma77; 2007-08-21 at 13:59.

2007-08-21, 20:54	Link #34
Sorrow-K Somehow I found out Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 40	Darknemo2000: I don't really judge anime by their loyalty to the source material. I can see that Iwasaki probably took liberties with the first series, particularly with the tone, but the result was a very enjoyable take on a fairly cliched premise. There was probably an inevitability that the second season wasn't going to be as enjoyable as the first given the fact that the source material moving into more serious ground was going to jarr with Iwasaki's somewhat tongue-in-cheek style, but that doesn't change the fact that Kou's handling of mood has been clumsy in this series, and he hasn't done enough to separate out the serious and light moments in the story and put clear, obvious borders between them. I mean, in the first series, when things got serious, like they did for Tabitha's backstory, there was a clear boundary between the heavier material and the light stuff in that ep (which, from memory, was the stuff leading up to Louise going under the effect of the love potion). Here we have Siesta in sailor fuku right beside Aines' revenge quest, and it's hard for the audience to make the right transition in mood to swallow the serious story when it's being intermixed with the light comic relief in the ep. This is what I have against Kou's style... there should be more effort to keep the two contrasts apart, if he wants us to take the serious stuff seriously. I don't disagree that the problems were inevitable, or, at best, would have been difficult to avoid given the directions the source material took, but one must question, why was the second season even made if people suspected this was going to happen? I mean, the first season ended at a pretty satisfactory point... it wasn't like Higurashi or Honey & Clover that chose really bad places to end their first seasons and needed sequels to complete the story. __________________ .:The Nihon Review:.:Ikoku Meiro no Croisée:.:Tamayura: Hitotose:. .:Behind The Nihon Review:.:Understanding Guilty Crown’s Failure:. .:MAL:.:Twitter:.

2007-08-21, 08:17	Link #24
OMGWTFHAXBBQ Member Join Date: Aug 2007	I bet Colbert played an important role in the war. 1. I bet he's the one who saved Anies form the fire 2. He's a fire mage, so it makes him more suspicious. 3. I bet he's the one commander guy that Anies was talking about who's still alive. 4. He's the one tore the page out.

2007-08-21, 08:30	Link #25
Anh_Minh I disagree with you all. Join Date: Dec 2005	I didn't take the first series seriously. I don't take this one seriously either. So I can still enjoy it, despite the lack of plot. The only thing I really regret is the lack of Tabitha and Kirche.

2007-08-21, 10:28	Link #27
Darknemo2000 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lithuania Age: 39	Sorrow-K, actually I think that the main reason why this feels so bad is actually a bad direction of the first series... I think that its mostly Iwasaki's misatkes that we are seeing now...Why? If you read novels you noticesd that while first voilume didnt had much serious moments second volume started to mix up seriousness with comedy, that later become one of the trademarks of ZnT. Srious scenes here a mixing well with comedy ones and dont lkill the general flow of the story. In first season they turned it all into comedy. While they managed to get away with dumbing down the second volume, even from that point I allready saw they they will come into problems later. They used up the most comedy scenes and where left with more serious material. But they cant really face the serious material without killing the general comedy feeling of the first season. But this is mostly because Iwasaki screwed up to begin with. He took in all comedy scenes while leaving the serious ones out. Now that becomes a real problem to Kou Yuu, as he doesnt want too lose the flow of the first season, but for thet he would need to rewrite the whole novels, since the first season butchered the serious parts of it they become allien to the story while in the novels they mix well. So I really think you guys should look back a bit and see the roots of the flaws that we see right now. Simple the first season though good on the comedy, used TOO much of it, making it into ONLY comedy series while novels is based on comedy it has quite a bit of serious scenes as well. So what can Kou Yuu do? He is cornered. There arent much comedy left as most tasty bits were taken by the first season, and he cant really get back to serious parts since like in Henreitta/Wales episode it might not turn out too well, and would feel like something different, that does not belong here. Lets face it guys: ZnT anime is probably the worst of all recent animes that were born following the novels . Both seasons are just a badly done parody of it and nothing more. The only reason why this season feels worse is because it was borned from rotten seeds of the first one (yeah it managed to cover its flaws pretty well, but we can see where it lead clearly now).

2007-08-21, 12:04	Link #29
asdffdsa Member Join Date: Jul 2007	I don't actually feel the whole season is bad. I am actually really enjoying it (with the exception of this episode). They just need to drop this Anies storyline, avoid any fillers/originals whatsoever (is there really any reason to make fillers with all of the novel content that is available?), re-focus on Saito and Louise, and stop ending the episodes with Louise going berserk on Saito. Yeah, it's funny seeing Louise show her Tsundere/S&M side now and then, but at this point, episode 4 (boat scene) seems like it never even happened. Oh, and if the very last scene of this anime is Louise getting pissed off at Saito, well... .../wrists.

2007-08-21, 18:44	Link #33
Ellis Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007	This episode was pretty nice ! I just love to see things as letters or inscriptions written in french

2007-08-21, 21:03	Link #35
OMGWTFHAXBBQ Member Join Date: Aug 2007	Siesta was HAWT in this episode.

2007-08-21, 21:55	Link #36
Echoes Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: In line to confess his sins. Age: 36	I'm enjoying the second season a lot, though I thought it had sort of a rough start, I still look forward to each episode, and my expectations are always met. I don't mind any of the flaws that have been pointed out here, because, simply put, I just enjoy watching Zero no Tsukaima very much. I can't articulate it more eloquently, I just like the random mixes of sides stories, humor and drama, and I think the characters make the show great, regardless. __________________ MyAnimeList Reviews and stuff

2007-08-22, 03:02	Link #37
Darknemo2000 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lithuania Age: 39	Sorrow-K, I cannot disagree with you as well my friend. i never said that Kou is better than Iwasaki. Actually, I think that better director (better than Kou or Iwasaki) could still handle this season pretty well even considering the flaws made in the first season. Kou doesnt have much talent. We can obviously see that when he tries to push in humour that he made himself (like Louise beating Saitoo in every ending of the epsiode or other fillers in). Its rather repetetive and boring. On the other hand, since Iwasaki took out many comedy scenes from later volumes and took them in first season, Kou is left with too much seriousness on his hands, and he has to make new comedy scenes to not stray away from the first season. He is bad at it, without a doubt, but again we shouldnt balme just him. He is cornered to begin with. Now to answer why did they start new season...well think about it...They only covered first 2-3 volumes of the novels, fans would be quite a bit annoyed if they would have stopped there. Not to mention that more epsiodes = more money. The bad part is, that because of Iwasakis mistakes in chosing tone of the anime, now character development is also practically non-existant. Specially talking about Louise and Saito relationship. It doesnt move or if moves, the in sudden jumps that look weird. ofcourse if you are not Louise fan and you havent read novels then its not too big problem (frankly speaking, if I had watched anime only then Louise would have never been one of my favorite caharcters, shes way too annoying here), but if you read novels you have to rather dissapointed with the way anime traets novels and its caharcters. As for this episode...Anes story is way to long for only 12 episodes. In novels it wasnt all that great. They skip interesting scenes while replacing them with one of the most boring ones, and putting the repetative and not-funny Kou's humour on it. I dont understand why did the JC Staff did so badly with animation of ZnT considering that they did Shana pretty well...

2007-08-22, 19:02	Link #38
Guido Snobby Gentleman Join Date: May 2004 Location: Monterrey, México Age: 43	The Underground Secret Document The episode wasn't good but at least decent. The reason why I give it a seven is due that the writers are outstretching Agne's side-plot on her quest for revenge, but there have been no much development from the other party; Sheffield mounting the troops at Albion. We haven't seen anything else from Sheffield since episode two, and I'm doubting if with the remaining episodes the animation staff would be able to pick up a proper pacing to give enough time to develop the crisis of the war against Albion. However, at least the prologue to the episode made a little but significant progression with Henrietta, although opposed, signing the treaty. I still well enjoyed the newly-introduced twists to Agne's side-plot. Spoiler: I have now my suspicions that the captain of the taskforce send to Agnes hometown was Colbert. Colbert seemed geniunely concerned for Agnes that her obssession for revenge is blinding her about possible faces for the truth of what truly happened 20 years ago. Saito gave a probation look towards Colbert after the latter heard Agnes that she would not be forgiving the captain that participated in the massacre. Colbert if his indeed the captain he would likely have felt miserable and regretful all those years for his actions that brought tragedy to the only survivor girl that he kindly picked up; Agnes.

2007-08-22, 19:51	Link #39
Darklightz Wagering his life... Join Date: Jun 2006	I think it was Colbert who saved Agnies in that fire. I'm not sure I like the new slutty Siesta. I like her much more in season one. And well,the whole "Male lead gets in naughty situation so the female lead beats him up" scenario has been done and overdone so many times it's just not interesting at all.