Haruhi Suzumiya - Spoilers & Speculation (for experienced Haruhi Fans only)

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

If Haruhi truly thinks that love is some sort of disease, she wouldn't want one of her Brigade members "catching" it. One thing that this novel shows is just how protective Haruhi is of Nagato.

She did separate "love" from "romance". If I understand it well, she view no problem with dating someone if this is fun. She have enve dated some guys in middle school. While she don't think it is interesting, but probably want Yuki to try new things.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Anyway, "love is a disease" just strikes me as a very odd thing for Haruhi to say. She plays on feelings of love and romance all the time, with the fetish wear. Heck, she even teased Kyon over his feelings for Mikuru just before saying that love is a disease.... I guess she wants Kyon to get sick.

I have to agree with you. It is, indeed, odd. However, as I said, 9 (kinda) touch that matter again. The same phrase was spoke by another, unrelated, person.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

After Nagakawa's second phone call to Kyon. Kyon getting anxious over the upcoming football game could make for a somewhat good episode cliffhanger moment.

Not "strong" enough. All non-main episodes storys are closed in itself. Even Lone Ispland, despite the cliffhanger, is pretty much two different storys. Te story has no breaking point, it is all the same. It could be done, but wouldn't follow the same style as the rest of the anime.

This seen to be a "problem" with the lastest chapters, the are really big. I am wondering how they are going to do Editor-In-Chief. Wondering Shadow is another big episode, but it has a clear break point.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The football game alone could easily be spread out to take up a half or more of an second episode.

I completely disagree here. If I am remembering correctly, in the story no one was actually paying attention in the match. So I can see KyoAni barely showng it. It is different from the Baseball game, where everything was described.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Kyon's narration, imo, sometimes shows his darker side. This time, it shows his better side. That's why I'd like to keep it as much of it as possible for this story.

Wouldn't it be one more reason to cut it? Then it wouldn't be too biased, they cut both Kyon's "good side" and "bad side".

Btw, how much of the novels have you read? (just curiosity)

[iHateApril3rd2009]

wikipedia is (not) ur friend

Spoiler:

This is the continuation of the previous novel The Dissociation of Haruhi Suzumiya. According to 2009 edition of The Sneaker, Tanigawa has begun the process of "readying the novel" for publication.

anyone have the source or the picture of them officially announcing it?

[freakonboard]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Kyon knows an awful lot for a student that's having a hard time passing at least some of his courses. A lot of his references, made during narration, would impress many a high school student. That's a bit of a jarring incongruency to me. I honestly wonder why Tanigawa decided to make Kyon a slightly subpar student. It really doesn't fit with Kyon's characterization as a highly educated book of trivia. Kyon doesn't need to be a top student, but it would be more believable, imo, if he was a slightly above average student, at least.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BookDumb
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...Tales/BookDumb

Speaking of my past, I knew some people who is the exact opposite of those who got excellent school grade, but lack of trivia knowledge.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by iHateApril3rd2009

wikipedia is (not) ur friend

Spoiler:

This is the continuation of the previous novel The Dissociation of Haruhi Suzumiya. According to 2009 edition of The Sneaker, Tanigawa has begun the process of "readying the novel" for publication.

anyone have the source or the picture of them officially announcing it?

I remember Sankaku Complex having a scan from tha magazine. Their translation was different, tough, but it is not like they are particularly trustworthy.

[freakonboard]

Originally Posted by iHateApril3rd2009

anyone have the source or the picture of them officially announcing it?

Here you are.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Heatth

She did separate "love" from "romance".

I don't see where she's differentiating between the two. In fact... given the context of Haruhi's line there, it's pretty obvious to me that she's referring specifically to romantic love, and not love in general (like, say, familial love).

Is there a particular line or two by Haruhi that strikes you as indicating that she's separating "love" from "romance"?

Not "strong" enough.

Why? I think it would work fine.

Charmed at First Sight LOVER is pretty long for a short story you know. It will likely feel rushed if done in one episode. There's going to be a lot of scene changes for just one episode if it's all done in just one episode, imo.

I completely disagree here. If I am remembering correctly, in the story no one was actually paying attention in the match. So I can see KyoAni barely showng it. It is different from the Baseball game, where everything was described.

... Yeah, we do completely disagree here. Charmed at First Sight Lover gets heavily into the football game, Heatth. It describes it in detail. It talks about how evenly matched the game is, and it intricately describes the style of play both teams are employing. Kyon spends a lot of time going over the game in narration. Haruhi is actually mildly fascinated by the game. Nagato follows it closely.

And the Nagakawa accident is so meticulously described by Kyon that it's incredible. It's easy to imagine KyoAni making a "money shot" scene here.

I'm not saying that half a episode would be just the game, per se; but it would be shots of the game interspersed with shots of the SOS Brigade reacting to it, and commenting on it. Basically, the scene of the SOS Brigade watching the game could easily take up half an episode. Any less than a quarter of an episode, and it's getting short-changed, imo.

Wouldn't it be one more reason to cut it? Then it wouldn't be too biased, they cut both Kyon's "good side" and "bad side".

Btw, how much of the novels have you read? (just curiosity)

I'm fully familiar with the Haruhi chronology up to this story. I still have a fair bit of reading to do.

Originally Posted by freakonboard

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BookDumb
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...Tales/BookDumb

But we're not talking "street smarts" here, as it pertains to Kyon. We're talking about some incredible culture, geography, history, and science references; this isn't the sort of practical street smarts that contrasts with book knowledge. This is book knowledge. It's the very opposite of book dumb.

Kyon's science references, in particular, doesn't strike me as the sort of stuff that a subpar high school student should know.

A guy who understands the scientific concept of entropy to the degree that Kyon does ought to be a good science student at the very least, imo.

I think that Tanigawa made an error here. Tanigawa's clearly a knowledgeable guy who likes to infuse his stories with what he himself knows about culture, geography, history, and science. This adds a lot of color and flavor to his stories, to Tanigawa's credit. The problem is, though - he's doing it through a character that is later setup as a subpar student, and hence it just doesn't fit. It would be better if Kyon was simply made a good student getting good marks.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Most of the information that seems unusual for a high school student of Kyon's caliber is done via narration. You know, that thing that's done in past tense? There's a reason for the "Kyon is merely reminiscing about his high school life" thing, after all, and it isn't the lack of names.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

Most of the information that seems unusual for a high school student of Kyon's caliber is done via narration. You know, that thing that's done in past tense? There's a reason for the "Kyon is merely reminiscing about his high school life" thing, after all, and it isn't the lack of names.

... I don't think that Kyon's narration is done strictly in the past tense. In fact, I'm not sure if it's ever clearly done in the past tense.

But, yeah, I definitely see why fans came up with that theory now.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I don't see where she's differentiating between the two. In fact... given the context of Haruhi's line there, it's pretty obvious to me that she's referring specifically to romantic love, and not love in general (like, say, familial love).

Is there a particular line or two by Haruhi that strikes you as indicating that she's separating "love" from "romance"?

I have already posted in this thread:

Originally Posted by Suzumiya Haruhi

"Kyon, though I personally think love is a kind of disease, I'm not the sort to get in the way of people's pursuit of romance just for the fun of it. After all, everyone's view of happiness is their own,"

I know she is talking about romantic love. By romance I (and, I believe, Haruhi in that line) meant for just going out with someone for fun, without emotional attachment. Just a different kind of enterteniment.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Why? I think it would work fine.

Well, I already explained in my last post.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Charmed at First Sight LOVER is pretty long for a short story you know. It will likely feel rushed if done in one episode. There's going to be a lot of scene changes for just one episode if it's all done in just one episode, imo.

Day of Sagitarious is also pretty big and it fits in one episode fine. But, well, I have little notion of time, so I would preffer stop the discussion here. I was just pointing it wouldn't fit quite well with the other episodes.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

... Yeah, we do completely disagree here. Charmed at First Sight Lover gets heavily into the football game, Heatth. It describes it in detail. It talks about how evenly matched the game is, and it intricately describes the style of play both teams are employing. Kyon spends a lot of time going over the game in narration. Haruhi is actually mildly fascinated by the game. Nagato follows it closely.

I don't remember being that way. I remember Kyon being quite bored of the game.

Hmmm, you are a sport fan, so you would pay more attention in that stuff, making it loks bigger then it actually is... but I am the exactly oposite, so I guess I will take your word, as you read it more recently.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

And the Nagakawa accident is so meticulously described by Kyon that it's incredible. It's easy to imagine KyoAni making a "money shot" scene here.

Oh, I agree here. This is a pretty important scene, after all.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I'm not saying that half a episode would be just the game, per se; but it would be shots of the game interspersed with shots of the SOS Brigade reacting to it, and commenting on it. Basically, the scene of the SOS Brigade watching the game could easily take up half an episode. Any less than a quarter of an episode, and it's getting short-changed, imo.

I still think it is umprobable they showing so much of the game. No one important is playing and it would be quite uninteresting for who is not into American Footbal.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I'm fully familiar with the Haruhi chronology up to this story. I still have a fair bit of reading to do.

I know that. That is why I asked, I tought you have read all up to Novel 9, and yet you just read Charmed. This kinda sparked my curiosity. I not asked who much you know but who much you read.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

But we're not talking "street smarts" here, as it pertains to Kyon. We're talking about some incredible culture, geography, history, and science references; this isn't the sort of practical street smarts that contrasts with book knowledge. This is book knowledge. It's the very opposite of book dumb.

Kyon's science references, in particular, doesn't strike me as the sort of stuff that a subpar high school student should know.

A guy who understands the scientific concept of entropy to the degree that Kyon does ought to be a good science student at the very least, imo.

I think that Tanigawa made an error here. Tanigawa's clearly a knowledgeable guy who likes to infuse his stories with what he himself knows about culture, geography, history, and science. This adds a lot of color and flavor to his stories, to Tanigawa's credit. The problem is, though - he's doing it through a character that is later setup as a subpar student, and hence it just doesn't fit. It would be better if Kyon was simply made a good student getting good marks.

Well, there is that theory Kyon is talking/writing from future. Like writing memorys of his life.

[Jonbob0008]

Originally Posted by Heatth

Not "strong" enough. All non-main episodes storys are closed in itself. Even Lone Ispland, despite the cliffhanger, is pretty much two different storys. Te story has no breaking point, it is all the same. It could be done, but wouldn't follow the same style as the rest of the anime.

This seen to be a "problem" with the lastest chapters, the are really big. I am wondering how they are going to do Editor-In-Chief. Wondering Shadow is another big episode, but it has a clear break point.

They'd probably just do what they did in Sighs and cut suddenly where ever they feel is necessary. The transition points in Sighs were all done this way.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

... I don't think that Kyon's narration is done strictly in the past tense. In fact, I'm not sure if it's ever clearly done in the past tense.

But, yeah, I definitely see why fans came up with that theory now.

I know people personally who are pretty smart, but struggle in school. It's partly because of apathy but also the fact that they often freeze up during tests. That's the best explanation I can think of. Kyon's certainly not the type to take school seriously.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Originally Posted by Heatth

Well, there is that theory Kyon is talking/writing from future. Like writing memorys of his life.

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

There's a reason for the "Kyon is merely reminiscing about his high school life" thing, after all, and it isn't the lack of names.

... I'm getting rather good at this ninja thing...

[Triple_R]

Ah well, my critique on Kyon being a subpar student is only a small one. It's not really worth debating over.

And, in fairness, I am a big sports fan, so maybe I delved into Kyon's narration on that a bit too much, lol.


I guess that my main reason for wanting this to be two episodes is just that I really liked it. I suppose it could work as one episode, but two would let KyoAni really add some 'oomph!' to it with great visuals and cutaway shots and slow-mo scenes, and stuff like that.


Thanks for the feedback, Heatth, Kogetsu, Jonbob, freakonboard, and the person who hates April 3rd of this year.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

... I'm getting rather good at this ninja thing...

That one didn't count! You post was way shorter, it was unfair!
((I will have my reavange!)

Originally Posted by Jonbob0008

They'd probably just do what they did in Sighs and cut suddenly where ever they feel is necessary. The transition points in Sighs were all done this way.

Well, Sighs is a major story. And it has all the simbolism, making it as just a very long movie.

PP:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

And, in fairness, I am a big sports fan, so maybe I delved into Kyon's narration on that a bit too much, lol.

And I am a big sport anti-fan, so it could be the reverse.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I guess that my main reason for wanting this to be two episodes is just that I really liked it. I suppose it could work as one episode, but two would let KyoAni really add some 'oomph!' to it with great visuals and cutaway shots and slow-mo scenes, and stuff like that.

Oh it is not like I want it to be short, you know. It is also one of my favorites chapters (tough for a different reason then yur, I guess).

[freakonboard]

Please allow me to post another comment regarding to this subject, guys.

Originally Posted by Jonbob0008

I know people personally who are pretty smart, but struggle in school. It's partly because of apathy but also the fact that they often freeze up during tests. That's the best explanation I can think of. Kyon's certainly not the type to take school seriously.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

There are some people who have some basic knowledge (that's not in the standard course of study) in various fields.
But when it comes to dealing with school issues (studying, homework, exam, etc.), they are basically sub-par, due to laziness or lack of motivation.

It's quite strange, however, this type of people do exist in this world.

[Tyabann]

People have already said this, but...

Originally Posted by Triple_R

But we're not talking "street smarts" here, as it pertains to Kyon. We're talking about some incredible culture, geography, history, and science references; this isn't the sort of practical street smarts that contrasts with book knowledge. This is book knowledge. It's the very opposite of book dumb.

Kyon's science references, in particular, doesn't strike me as the sort of stuff that a subpar high school student should know.

A guy who understands the scientific concept of entropy to the degree that Kyon does ought to be a good science student at the very least, imo.

I think that Tanigawa made an error here. Tanigawa's clearly a knowledgeable guy who likes to infuse his stories with what he himself knows about culture, geography, history, and science. This adds a lot of color and flavor to his stories, to Tanigawa's credit. The problem is, though - he's doing it through a character that is later setup as a subpar student, and hence it just doesn't fit. It would be better if Kyon was simply made a good student getting good marks.

If Kyon put any actual effort into his studies, he'd be the top of the class.

He's a lazy bum.

It's suggested that Kyon spent most of his pre-high school days absorbed in books (all of which are conspicuously absent from his room). It really isn't a wonder that he knows so much.


Oh, and about the Haruhi and Love Being a Disease thing... you can look at it two ways:

1) It's her way of being tsundere, or

2) It's Tanigawa's way of letting Kyon and Yuki be together without Haruhi destroying the universe, which I could totally see before Vol. 7 came out.


In regards to romantic development... LOVER and SMS try to ship Kyon/Yuki... and it really doesn't work with all that's come before. I think Tanigawa might have realized that.

[TakariCritic]

In regards to romantic development... LOVER and SMS try to ship Kyon/Yuki... and it really doesn't work with all that's come before. I think Tanigawa might have realized that.

I respectfully disagree, I'm under the impression that this story, though certainly romance-based, does not impress any particular couple onto the audience.

That being said, it DOES give an important insight towards the close friendship Kyon share with Yuki, and he even experiences an epiphany, remarking how he can't stand the thought of anyone getting closer to Mikuru and Yuki than he is. Now, this CAN be taken romantically, but also platonically. All friends feel that pang of jealousy when someone close to them finds someone to get closer too.

In terms of shipping, I admit I am a large Yuki/Kyon shipper, and would love to see them together at the end, however uncannon it may seem.



With Haruhi, I can kinda see her interest in Yuki's suitor as pure curiosity. After all, she's never dated seriously, and is actually quite curious about how romantic feelings work and their affect on people. Just as she uses Mikuru to satisfy her cosplay desires, I can sort of see her using Yuki to slake her curiosity for romance. Just as long as it isn't with Kyon (As seen in her accusation in Snow Mountain)

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by TakariCritic

Just as long as it isn't with Kyon (As seen in her accusation in Snow Mountain)

I seem to recall her basically giving Kyon permission to date Yuki in SMS.

If that had actually gone anywhere I would have thrown the book away immediately. I'm sorry to disagree with you so much, but I hate that pairing.

[Triple_R]

I don't think that LOVER was meant to ship Kyon/Yuki, per se... but it may have been meant to bury Kyon/Haruhi to later pave the way for Kyon/Yuki. The reason I say this is that LOVER certainly doesn't hurt Kyon/Mikuru any...


There are three particular lines (or series of lines) in the LOVER short story that are the sort of lines that I myself would write (as a fanfic writer) if I wanted to bury a pairing alternate to my preferred one.

Having Haruhi declare that love is some sort of disease is definitely one of them.


Kaisos' comments pertaining to Novel 7 has certainly piqued my interest. I hope to get to this novel later today or tomorrow, as I'm intrigued to see how this novel becomes a game-changer as it pertains to shippings.

[TakariCritic]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

I seem to recall her basically giving Kyon permission to date Yuki in SMS.

Not really, but a mere few days before the events of Snow Mountain was Charmed at first sight Lover, in which she told was fuming when she thought the love letter was from Kyon to Yuki. Of course, she may have just been fuming at the QUALITY of the letter.

[Tabasco]

Originally Posted by TakariCritic

Of course, she may have just been fuming at the QUALITY of the letter.

Understandable, that was just painful to see.

I'm not sure I buy Haruhi using Yuki to explore romance, in all honesty. Haruhi gets possessive about all of her subordinates, but that's a vibe I never caught between them.