[Manga] Sasuke, a genius that surpasses the imagination. Pre/Post Timeskip

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Langus

james0246: Your fanboying for Sasuke is almost too much to bear.

James, you naughty Sasuke lover you.
Oh well thanks for the laugh Langus.
More seriously the fact you are immediately assuming that someone like james -who tries hard not to dislike Sasuke too much at best- is a Sasuke fanboy should teach you something about your own stance.
Sasuke is a rather unbelievable genius which is why the characters in the story keep gasping rather annoyingly about it over and over. Certainly not the best there is, it is indeed possible to find greater ones (even if a dozen is rather laughable). It has happened in the manga again and again and the completely over the top scene displaying Sasuke surrounded by hundreds of defeated ninja with Orochimaru admitting how his own genius paled in front of Sasuke should have been enough, more than enough, to make things clear is this was still necessary but some things are apparently just unacceptable for some.

That being said about greater ones, it is actually only a "yet". At the rate Naruto and Sasuke have been growing strength it is only a matter of little time before they have surpassed almost every other characters in the story. Two arcs ago was meant to represent Naruto surpassing Kakashi, we are starting to see Naruto surpassing Jiraiya in this one. This alone should make things painfully obvious.

[Killer Bee]

Originally Posted by Waking_Dreamer

um...I dont think Naruto would have survived Haku (if you dont count a resurrection from the kyuubi) if it werent for Sasuke.

If I don't count the healing properties from the kyuubi then you can't count the sharingan.

BTW ... who was it that actually began defeating Haku before Haku sacrificed himself to protect Zabuza?

Hint: It wasn't Sasuke.

[Waking_Dreamer]

Originally Posted by Killer Bee

If I don't count the healing properties from the kyuubi then you can't count the sharingan.

BTW ... who was it that actually began defeating Haku before Haku sacrificed himself to protect Zabuza?

Hint: It wasn't Sasuke.

Do I really have to elaborate on my response? Anyone who would have read my post would have chuckled cause you kind of walked into a headshot.

The only reason Naruto survived long enough to go Kyuubi was because Sasuke and his Sharingan (which he unlocked on his own in the heat of battle) could already follow Haku's movements and thus his attacks were useless on him. Thats the only reason Haku went for Naruto, was cause his attacks wouldnt have worked on Sasuke anymore. So Sasuke saved Naruto's exhausted ass first, when he could have potentially won the fight from then on (if Naruto wasnt a target).

Though this direction of conversation isnt going to go anywhere as anyone would realise that before Naruto learns the Rasengan, the Naruto and Sasuke dynamic involved them taking turns saving/inspiring each other e.g. against Oro and then Gara.

[james0246]

edit: Yes Hunter, I have been converted .

Originally Posted by Langus

james0246: Your fanboying for Sasuke is almost too much to bear. I feel kinda dirty after reading that post filled with Sasuke love. But to answer you point, you forgot one of the most important people in Konoha in your little list - KAKASHI. Genius extra-ordinaire and potential next Hokage.

LOL, you must be new to this sub-forum if you think, even for a second, that I am a fanboy for Sasuke . I am an unabashedly admitted Naruto supporter that simply wishes for Sasuke to be strong (if not the strongest) so that when Naruto finally defeats Sasuke, the defeat will be all the more important.

Originally Posted by Langus

While your example about Harvard is nice, think of it this way. If you have a student in your class who is very smart for their age, or at least a fast learner, compared to their peers they are a "genius". If you then take that student and put them in a classroom filled with geniuses, their designation as one doesn't amount to much more than that - a pointless designation.

If you read my posts you will see that I, more or less say the exact same thing (quote from me, "Sasuke is just a run-of-the-mill genius; the best in his age group, but not the best of a generation or some other length of time."). That being said, even if he is just the genius of his age-group that cannot match up to the previous heavy hitters he is still the genius of his age-group, and should be counted as such. While he might be average in the school full of geniuses, he is still a genius.

That being said, Sasuke, similar to Naruto, possesses one of the largest drives to succeed in the entire Narutoverse. Sasuke's ambition will cause him to push himself even further, eventually surpassing Itachi and Madara. So, even if he does not bear the same level of genius as his predecessors, he will still overcome their genius through sheer will power (this is Shounen, will power is the ultimate mystical force that allows novices to evenly combat experienced fighters ).

Of course, Naruto will do the same thing, and eventually surpass Sasuke. Hell, to let my inner fanboy out for a second, Naruto will find a way to surpass the Kyuubi .

Originally Posted by Langus

Thus far I've seen very little to suggest that Sasuke is a prodigy. Itachi was a prodigy. Sasuke is just his little brother trying (still) to fill his very big shoes.

Why isn't Sasuke a prodigy? He, at 14, defeated Deidara, a man who attained S-rank status well before Sasuke attained his Sharingan, maybe even before Itachi massacred his clan. So, if he can defeat an S-rank Shinobi, something very few can do, does that not classify Sasuke as, at least, a prodigy, considering that Itachi only started S-rank missions at 13, while Sasuke started at 14 (Kakashi started somewhere inbetween). And yes, I am willing to say that Naruto, Shikimaru, and potentially Sakura are all prodigies as well.

[Langus]

Originally Posted by Hunter

More seriously the fact you are immediately assuming that someone like james -who tries hard not to dislike Sasuke too much at best- is a Sasuke fanboy should teach you something about your own stance.

Sorry, I had to laugh out loud at this. My apologies. The rampant fanboying on this forum for Sasuke is so thick it's hard to pinpoint who does and who doesn't fall into the fold at times. If you're suggesting that I'm fanboying I need to laugh even harder. I'm not even a fan of the Naruto series. My interest in the show lives and dies with Kakashi - period. Considering I have no vested interesting on rooting for Sasuke over Naruto, or the other way around, I think I'm in a fairly good position to be objective when it comes to discussion of this nature.

Originally Posted by Hunter

Sasuke is a rather unbelievable genius which is why the characters in the story keep gasping rather annoyingly about it over and over. Certainly not the best there is, it is indeed possible to find greater ones (even if a dozen is rather laughable). It has happened in the manga again and again and the completely over the top scene displaying Sasuke surrounded by hundreds of defeated ninja with Orochimaru admitting how his own genius paled in front of Sasuke should have been enough, more than enough, to make things clear is this was still necessary but some things are apparently just unacceptable for some.

I'm not the only one here who agrees that there are other more accomplished "geniuses" than Sasuke hanging around. I apologize if 12 was too much of an exaggeration for you to handle. I should have stuck with - sorry what was the number of names we listed off the top of our heads? *goes to check* Oh right, 10.
My bad. For every scene you can list of Sasuke being an impressive "genius" and showing off his "mad skillz" there are scenes for others, like Naruto, like Itachi, etc. that are comparable. I'm a little surprised, to be honest, that you give Orochimaru's words so much credit. I thought it was common knowledge at this point that he verbally jerks off Sasuke every chance he gets. No way to get a boy to sign over his body to you quite like stroking his...ego. Orochimaru may have told Sasuke to his face that his powers far exceeded his own, but the fact that he continued plotting in the hopes of eventually taking over Sasuke's body for himself demonstrates that on some level he still considered Sasuke beneath him and open to being tricked/fooled/impressed upon/whatever.

Originally Posted by Hunter

That being said about greater ones, it is actually only a "yet". At the rate Naruto and Sasuke have been growing strength it is only a matter of little time before they have surpassed almost every other characters in the story. Two arcs ago was meant to represent Naruto surpassing Kakashi, we are starting to see Naruto surpassing Jiraiya in this one. This alone should make things painfully obvious.

Painfully obvious that what? That Naruto will ultimately be recognized as a legendary ninja if he isn't so already? Yes, I agree. I already said as much in my last post.

Update: James0246 - Deidara killed himself if I remember correctly? And it wasn't like that fight was a walk in the park for Sasuke. He took some heavy damage (despite the fact that his enemy was missing limbs...). That seems to be a pattern with Sasuke and his fights. He always, always needs help. Despite all his mad skillz and special smarts he lacks the ability to finish any opponent off using his own strength. Sasuke has yet to successfully defeat (as in kill) anyone. Comparing that performance to Itachi's and the fact that he led an ANBU squad at 13 (not just was in it - LED IT) he just doesn't add up to "prodigy" in my books. Sorry, but as of yet he hasn't done anything to demonstrate to me that his skills are obscenely above and beyond (which would designate him as a "prodigy").

Just look at the example of elemental manipulation - something Sasuke had to learn well and truly on his own. What took him days to learn took Naruto hours. Granted there is an age difference there, but if he were truly as much of a "genius" or "prodigy" as some are suggesting his progress should have exceeded that of Naruto, not the other way around.

[Waking_Dreamer]

^ Just wondering though, do you consider Neji a "prodigy" or a "genius"?

[Langus]

Originally Posted by Waking_Dreamer

^ Just wondering though, do you consider Neji a "prodigy" or a "genius"?

Hmmm, haven't really given it any thought. I suppose I'd have to go with "genius". Unless I'm missing some parts of the manga I haven't read or episodes of the show I've skipped, his skills, while impressive, aren't exceedingly beyond something Hinata could have achieved had her skills been nurtured in the right environment.

IMHO, a prodigy possesses a skill or set of skills from birth that another similar individual, no matter how much they practice or train, no matter how much effort they put into it, or how badly they want it, will never achieve.

Think of those child prodigies who play music, like Beethoven for instance. Anyone can play a piano if you sit them down at one, albeit most not well. If you teach someone how to play, they can probably play the instrument well with enough time and practice. No matter how hard they practice or how much time they invest though, they simply will never sound as good as those musicians who are prodigies - the ones who understand the instrument from the first time they are sat in front of it.

[Waking_Dreamer]

hmm...okay then.

I think the main issue here peoples view of "genius" as i admit its used waaay to often in the anime/manga. As while they use it on many of the skilled characters there is obvious a difference in degree between the characters.

I was just trying to point out, If characters like Neji could be termed as "genius" I dont see why Sasuke cant belong to that term. Im sure everyone agrees that there is different between Sasukes and Itachi's character but if people were using Itachi as a cut-off point for the term genius, than pretty much none of the genins would fall into that category and even Jounins like Kakashi (he was referred to as a genius too before he got the Sharingan).

I mean 4th Hokage was referred to as a genius, but if we use him as a cut-off, than virtually everyone would be considered a dropout lol (exaggeration).

[Langus]

I think that's why people started with the distinction between "genius" and "prodigy".

It is obvious that some - like Naruto, like Sasuke, Neji and Shikimaru are above their peers in terms of their skills. They should be offered a special designation. However when comparing their skill set to others they are still lacking. And perhaps that is only from lack of experience, it's impossible to know yet. But regardless, it's hard to ignore the achievements of a character like Itachi compared to the other characters we've seen thus far. It seems only fair that given what we know of his abilities and the early stage at which he achieved them, he should be afforded a rank above those "geniuses" we have deemed worthy of the title thus far.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Langus

Update: James0246 - Deidara killed himself if I remember correctly?

So? Sasuke still forced Deidara to use a suicide technique. If you can force your opponent to use a suicide technique, and then live, then you have completely surpassed your opponent.

Originally Posted by Langus

And it wasn't like that fight was a walk in the park for Sasuke. He took some heavy damage (despite the fact that his enemy was missing limbs...).

No one claimed that it was an easy fight, but then no one claimed that Itachi's, Kakashi's, Minato's etc S-Rank fights were easy, especially early on. You make it seem like every "genius" is supposed to walk away from a fight without a scratch, when we have never seen any fight like that.

Originally Posted by Langus

Despite all his mad skillz and special smarts he lacks the ability to finish any opponent off using his own strength.

You are correct, but, then again, someone like Kakashi has, in the history of Naruto, only won a single high-level battle, and all other times has lost, sometimes spectacularly. So, does that mean that Kakashi is not a genius? That he is not Kage-level? No, it simply means that his opponents were better than him, or they surprised him, etc.

Originally Posted by Langus

Sasuke has yet to successfully defeat (as in kill) anyone.

That is intentional. Kishimoto does not want Sasuke to have blood on his hands. Kishimoto designed the series so that Naruto, Sasuke, or Sakura do not actually kill anyone.

Originally Posted by Langus

Comparing that performance to Itachi's and the fact that he led an ANBU squad at 13 (not just was in it - LED IT) he just doesn't add up to "prodigy" in my books.

Again, why not? Let me use an outlandish analogy to explain the difference between Itachi and Sasuke. Itachi may be the Werner Heisenberg of the Narutoverse (Sarutobi or Minato can be Einstein or Bohr for this partial analogy), but Sasuke is still J. Robert Oppenheimer. I am not saying these famous physicist are in any way comparable to the Naruto figures, rather I am differentiating the realms of genius involved within the Narutoverse, and how, even if Itachi is a greater genius/has a greater mind (much the same as Heisenberg was a greater genius (or at least from a work standpoint, Heisenberg's work is greater and more powerful than Oppenheimer's)), Sasuke is still in the same league, just not as developed.

That being said, Sasuke has completed about as many S-rank missions as Itachi completed by the age of 17 (when he left). So, in that respect, Sasuke is actually ahead of Itachi and potentially more powerful than Itachi at the age of 14.

Originally Posted by Langus

Just look at the example of elemental manipulation - something Sasuke had to learn well and truly on his own. What took him days to learn took Naruto hours. Granted there is an age difference there, but if he were truly as much of a "genius" or "prodigy" as some are suggesting his progress should have exceeded that of Naruto, not the other way around.

You’re kidding, right? Naruto used/abused Kage Bushin in order to learn nature manipulation (and when you add the number of Kage Bushins he used by the number of days it took him, Naruto spent years learning nature manipulation), Sasuke had learned two natures by the age of 12 (learning two elements is the basic requirement for becoming a Jounin) and in both cases, had learned the element within a few weeks. Presumably no one even explained to Sasuke what elemental manipulation was, and consequently, Sasuke had to stumble to learn the advanced Chuunin skill.

---

That being said, I do agree that Sasuke has never lived up to the hype, especially since we learned that Sasuke had activated the Sharingan at the age of 7 (the same age as Itachi). There are many small plot holes involved with Sasuke's development as a Shinobi. Arguably, he should have learned the various chakra training techniques before he finished the academy. Specifically, if Sasuke was that hell bent on revenge, he should have noticed the obvious use of tree walking, and learned the basic technique well before he left the academy (how Sasuke could have lived in a ninja village and not know about tree walking until Kakashi showed him in the Wave Arc has never made sense to me). There are a great many other details similar to this that have always bugged me about Sasuke's development.

But, despite all of this, Sasuke has always been acknowledged as a genius, so there is no real reason to assume that he is not.

[Waking_Dreamer]

Originally Posted by Langus

I think that's why people started with the distinction between "genius" and "prodigy".

It is obvious that some - like Naruto, like Sasuke, Neji and Shikimaru are above their peers in terms of their skills. They should be offered a special designation. However when comparing their skill set to others they are still lacking. And perhaps that is only from lack of experience, it's impossible to know yet. But regardless, it's hard to ignore the achievements of a character like Itachi compared to the other characters we've seen thus far. It seems only fair that given what we know of his abilities and the early stage at which he achieved them, he should be afforded a rank above those "geniuses" we have deemed worthy of the title thus far.

Cool...im fine with that.

What got me started was the idea that the only reason Sasuke was good was because of his heritage and that any/all of the feats he has done are canceled out simply because he had the Cursed Seal or the Sharingan.

Implying anyone average person (ninja) who were given the same "things/treatment" could perform his achievements. I dont particularly like Sasuke but I cant agree with that statement.

[Killer Bee]

Originally Posted by Waking_Dreamer

Do I really have to elaborate on my response? Anyone who would have read my post would have chuckled cause you kind of walked into a headshot.

The only reason Naruto survived long enough to go Kyuubi was because Sasuke and his Sharingan (which he unlocked on his own in the heat of battle) could already follow Haku's movements and thus his attacks were useless on him. Thats the only reason Haku went for Naruto, was cause his attacks wouldnt have worked on Sasuke anymore. So Sasuke saved Naruto's exhausted ass first, when he could have potentially won the fight from then on (if Naruto wasnt a target).

Though this direction of conversation isnt going to go anywhere as anyone would realise that before Naruto learns the Rasengan, the Naruto and Sasuke dynamic involved them taking turns saving/inspiring each other e.g. against Oro and then Gara.

I remember what happened, and I knew what you meant. However, we don't know that Naruto would have died. We know that he would have been injured, but Naruto's healing is so accelerated due to the kyuubi that we don't know that he would have died. Naruto took more of a beating from Kabuto than he did from Haku and Kabuto's attacks were strong enough to take out jounin level Shizune. I know your next line will be "Only because Tsunade healed him", but if you remember correctly Tsunade didn't think that she could save him. The kyuubi's healing properties had a lot to do with it.

Anyway, I said all that to say this:

Sasuke has fallen short most of the time. Whether it was against Haku. Whether it was against Rock Lee. Whether it was in the forest during the chunnin exams. Whether it was against Gaara. Whether it was against the Sound Four. Whether it be a debilitated Itachi, or a when ganging up on Kirabi.

In fact, the only people Sasuke really defeated were Deidara(who blew himself up), and a severely weakened Orochimaru.

Naruto on the other hand:

Beat Mizuki BEFORE learning rasengan.
Beat Haku, who was stronger than Zabuza, BEFORE learning rasengan.
Beat two giant snakes summoned by Orochimaru
Beat a group of Rain Gennin single handedly.
Beat Kiba
Beat Neji BEFORE learning rasengan.
Beat Gaara BEFORE learning rasengan.
Beat Kabuto in his first time using the rasengan.
Nearly killed Orochimaru.
Killed Kakuzu.

[Endrance]

I dunno if i would call naruto a genius i mean compared to most of the others he just doesnt fit that title well in my opinion when he learns to fully utilize his kyuubi abilities like say neji has learned to us his byakugan, sasuke his sharingan, rock lee his taijutsu then i can accept that...most of his early battles using the kyuubi werent him using it it was just sort of reflex such as his orochimaru fight and in my opinion having a reflex to a life and death situation doesnt fit the title of genius.....skilled yes but genius i dunno about that

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Killer Bee

In fact, the only people Sasuke really defeated were Deidara(who blew himself up), and a severely weakened Orochimaru.

You're leaving out some things aren't you?

- Sasuke completely humiliated Zaku and drove off the Sound Trio in the Forest of Death
- beat a snake summoned by Oro and held his own against Oro himself
- defeated Yoroi in the chuunin prelmins
- defeated Naruto at VotE
- defeated an entire army of shinobi (which Hunter mentioned just a page ago)
- made Sai almost faint just by looking at him
- took on Naruto, Sai, Sakura and Yamato at once in Oro's lair and made Yamato admit they would have to go all out to stand a chance against him.
- defeated several CS users at Oro's lab

Originally Posted by Endrance

I dunno if i would call naruto a genius i mean compared to most of the others he just doesnt fit that title well in my opinion when he learns to fully utilize his kyuubi abilities like say neji has learned to us his byakugan, sasuke his sharingan, rock lee his taijutsu then i can accept that...most of his early battles using the kyuubi werent him using it it was just sort of reflex such as his orochimaru fight and in my opinion having a reflex to a life and death situation doesnt fit the title of genius.....skilled yes but genius i dunno about that

Naruto has really good intuitive abilites. It's really impressive how he learns things so quickly, but always manages to look stupid while he's doing it.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Langus

Sorry, I had to laugh out loud at this. My apologies. The rampant fanboying on this forum for Sasuke is so thick it's hard to pinpoint who does and who doesn't fall into the fold at times. If you're suggesting that I'm fanboying I need to laugh even harder. I'm not even a fan of the Naruto series. My interest in the show lives and dies with Kakashi - period. Considering I have no vested interesting on rooting for Sasuke over Naruto, or the other way around, I think I'm in a fairly good position to be objective when it comes to discussion of this nature.

Laugh if you will, it's good for the soul, but I'm afraid you're not quite as objective as you think you are. Not by a long shot.
I have not once implied you were a Naruto fanboy, I don't even know why you brought this up except if you happen to think liking or disliking Sasuke automatically mean you are supposed to feel the other way for Naruto and vice-versa.
Who you like wasn't the point, your obvious and deep dislike of Sasuke character however was.

Your next paragraph is a perfect example of that, you refuse to consider Orochimaru's statement and deem it as a mere lie nurturing Sasuke's ego which is rather amusing considering that Orochimaru was actually thinking to himself and not speaking out loud.. But I guess Sasuke -and not the readers- was meant to read the bubble near Oro's head to feel good about himself.
I'm not sure what you make of Kakashi's comment about Sasuke's genius, or Gai's, or Lee's, or anyone's else really. I'm guessing you are perfectly able to imagine fancy reason to ignore them all instead of simply admitting what the author of the series is trying to tell you. With a brick.

Painfully obvious that what? That Naruto will ultimately be recognized as a legendary ninja if he isn't so already? Yes, I agree. I already said as much in my last post.

Painfully obvious that Naruto's growth as of late was necessary to allow him to rival, and ultimately best, Sasuke. What you apparently fail to realize (which is kind of sad after 46 volumes) is that improvements from either of those two characters will lead to the the improvements of the other.

Update: James0246 - Deidara killed himself if I remember correctly? And it wasn't like that fight was a walk in the park for Sasuke. He took some heavy damage (despite the fact that his enemy was missing limbs...).

No actually Deidara was missing limbs before and during his skirmish with Naruto and Kakashi whereas he had no such problem against Sasuke. Not really on topic but it highlight yet again your objectivity.
That or the way you seem to ignore how Naruto used the KB training to learn Elemental Manipulation a thousand of time faster than it should.
Or how you think this sub-forum is filled thick with Sasuke fanboyism -though I guess it is not that much of an unreasonable assumption if you do not know it and only took a look at a few post of this old thread.

Anyway your list of dozen of people way above Sasuke's genius that apparently dropped to ten names which apparently only amount to two when you actually care to bother giving examples (well you're not giving any actually but you keep mentioning two characters in particular). Those two being Itachi and Naruto.
Meaning the leading character and rival who does and will indeed improve tremendously fast to keep up and surpass his rival and the guy who has the more stupendous growth in the entire series.
Who else exactly? I'm afraid your favorite character Kakashi was already passed by Naruto and Sasuke a couple of arc ago. Jiraiya and Orochimaru were the next benchmark and we were already told they were inferior by Pa and Orochimaru himself respectively. So again who else now? Itachi yes and from the hype alone probably people like Minato, Sarutobi, Hachiwara, Nagato and Madara who are the next benchmarks to pass.
More simply put : the absolute best we have heard of in the entire story.

[Cub-Sama]

After skipping most of the posts I have something else to say: Sasuke unlocked his sharingan during the massacre but his mind blocked that memory out and he forgot he had it, he was around 8/9 at the time, just imagine how strong he would be now if he knew about the sharingan from the beginning. But these days the training sessions are pure hack, Naruto learns close to nothing from Jiraiya but in like 2 weeks with Kakashi he had created Fuuton Rasenshuriken then in like 2 weeks with the toad he is super saiyan 4 Naruto

[Kakashi]

Originally Posted by Endrance

I dunno if i would call naruto a genius i mean compared to most of the others he just doesnt fit that title well in my opinion when he learns to fully utilize his kyuubi abilities like say neji has learned to us his byakugan, sasuke his sharingan, rock lee his taijutsu then i can accept that...most of his early battles using the kyuubi werent him using it it was just sort of reflex such as his orochimaru fight and in my opinion having a reflex to a life and death situation doesnt fit the title of genius.....skilled yes but genius i dunno about that

There can be more than one type of genius. Naruto is great at feeling his way around a situation mostly through trial and error. He isn't afraid to get his hands dirty and can still counter attack even when he's getting a beat down. Chances are Sasuke, who is generally quicker on the uptake and a more of common sense centered ninja, will get outdone by Naruto's sheer endurance. The way Naruto learned rasengan actually earns him genius status. He applied an original and unknown method to make one of the highest level jutsu a piece of cake. Rasengan for dummies. The boy even applied some kind of equilibrium/countercurrent technique, which would classify him as a scientist!

[Kakosan]

Originally Posted by james0246

That being said, Sasuke has completed about as many S-rank missions as Itachi completed by the age of 17 (when he left). So, in that respect, Sasuke is actually ahead of Itachi and potentially more powerful than Itachi at the age of 14.

Nop, Sasuke is just a strong asset as a shinobi, but he lacks the skills to be a real leader or to see beyond his revenge desire. Just focus on his failure as the leader of Hebi. He cannot, by any means, be compared to Itachi who took an insane responsability on his shoulders before he was 17. Sasuke lacks maturity and that fact definetly gives an upper bound for his achievements.

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by Kakashi

There can be more than one type of genius. Naruto is great at feeling his way around a situation mostly through trial and error. He isn't afraid to get his hands dirty and can still counter attack even when he's getting a beat down. Chances are Sasuke, who is generally quicker on the uptake and a more of common sense centered ninja, will get outdone by Naruto's sheer endurance. The way Naruto learned rasengan actually earns him genius status. He applied an original and unknown method to make one of the highest level jutsu a piece of cake. Rasengan for dummies. The boy even applied some kind of equilibrium/countercurrent technique, which would classify him as a scientist!

i agree for naruto's lack of brains he makes up for it with his endurance but most of the time he just rushes into fights with just that endurance and sometime rushing in without thinking first is worse

[amOKchen]

I hear that Sasuke is afraid of needles