[Manga] Chapter 514 Discussion

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Because he's related to Hashirama, who got an enormous attention shift the last few chapters, so one would expect his freaking clone to DO SOMETHING worth mentioning.

Which does not make up for the fact that he has zero personality. If all he's good for is introducing and furthering some new plot element then all he is is a mindless plot progression character.

Here's a Writing 101 question for you: Does the plot move your characters, or do your characters move the plot?

[DeDe]

I honestly could never care about Yamato. He just never clicked with me. But he won't even die. Kabuto will just take his cells. Now we can really start the war.

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

Perhaps he views this current mission as training? I admit that I too am a bit dumbfounded at his lack of persistence or trusting his gut-feeling, but we need to recall that just prior to being sent to the island, he was informed by the Old Toad Sage about the island being his "destiny". It makes some sort of sense but its still a sloppy method. It would be better for Kishimoto to get Naruto's ass in gear and start perfecting his newly acquired powers.

I am beginning to think this was mandated by Shueisha. Perhaps they thought Naruto was too serious and needed to be more of the innocent and naive Naruto of the past? Naruto was always daft, but I can't explain why he is acting this stupid now. In no universe should a character like Aoba be dissing Naruto. Kishi just wrote an entire arc about how everyone in Konoha now respects Naruto. And here we have people lying to him and making fun of him behind his back about how stupid he is?

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

And Kurotsuchi will probably become a fan favorute. A fun badarse chick with cement jutsu. We needed one since Shikamaru's girlfriend with the fan had her personality ripped out and became irrelevant long ago.

[Kafriel]

Here's a Writing 101 question for you: Does the plot move your characters, or do your characters move the plot?

Which does not make up for the fact that he has zero personality.

Madara has zero personality and moves the entire world just because he's an Uchiha. See if he's moving the plot or not...who came up with the eye of the moon plan, who was it that got Sasuke in Akatsuki? How did they revive, maybe from a certain character's action? The only point at which plot moves characters is the very first chapter...from that point on it's characters' actions causing chain reactions that ultimately constitute the plot.

[solidguy]

old man might actually be a badass, gaara should watch his mouth around him.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by DeDe

I am beginning to think this was mandated by Shueisha. Perhaps they thought Naruto was too serious and needed to be more of the innocent and naive Naruto of the past? Naruto was always daft, but I can't explain why he is acting this stupid now. In no universe should a character like Aoba be dissing Naruto. Kishi just wrote an entire arc about how everyone in Konoha now respects Naruto. And here we have people lying to him and making fun of him behind his back about how stupid he is?

-If that's the case then Shueisha is the idiot here. You know, there is something called "character development". Just because Naruto started out as a naive, bratty boy doesn't mean he has to remain as such for the rest of the story. I mean, come on, the boy had too much happen to him in the last 2 arcs that him not growing out of his idiotic habits is ridiculous. He heard the news of Jiraiya's death, fought and came to understand Nagato, resolved to face Sasuke and met his dearly departed mother in the "afterlife". What is Shueisha expecting the character to do? Naruto isn't a character that can keep a fake smile anymore and deceive others about his troubles.

Originally Posted by DeDe

-There there, if its any consolation I'm still very, very pissed at Konan's death. Makes me want to punch Kishimoto's inner child in the gut .

[DeDe]

I didn't notice Kurotsuchi used Youton(Lava release) which is a bloodline limit combining earth and fire. She then followed up with a normal water jutsu to create what we would call cement.

Roshi, the old man Iwa jinchuuriki, could also use the lava element. Considering the jinchuuriki are usually related to the Kages, and learning Kuro is the Tsuchikage's granddaughter, probably explains where she got it from. How Mei Terumi ended up with Youton, which now seems more Iwagakure specific, is a mystery.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-Perhaps he views this current mission as training? I admit that I too am a bit dumbfounded at his lack of persistence or trusting his gut-feeling, but we need to recall that just prior to being sent to the island, he was informed by the Old Toad Sage about the island being his "destiny". It makes some sort of sense but its still a sloppy method. It would be better for Kishimoto to get Naruto's ass in gear and start perfecting his newly acquired powers.

True, i forgot that the toad sage said the octopus was on an island, and as such Naruto might have figured it to be a sign of sorts. Still Naruto's idiocy really is taking the cake here if he's not questioning why HE of all people was sent on a research mission like this (ecology research seems like it would be more up Sakura's alley), and why this mission is a secret s-rank mission... heh, naruto is too stupid to realize that' he's too stupid for a mission like this

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by DeDe

I am beginning to think this was mandated by Shueisha. Perhaps they thought Naruto was too serious and needed to be more of the innocent and naive Naruto of the past? Naruto was always daft, but I can't explain why he is acting this stupid now. In no universe should a character like Aoba be dissing Naruto. Kishi just wrote an entire arc about how everyone in Konoha now respects Naruto. And here we have people lying to him and making fun of him behind his back about how stupid he is?

You know, as convenient as it would be to blame Shueisha and the editors for the fact that Kishi is a terrible writer...........no. Just no.

Show me documented evidence that Shueisha demanded there be an armadillo penis in the story and I will retract every negative thing I ever said about Kishi.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

You know, as convenient as it would be to blame Shueisha and the editors for the fact that Kishi is a terrible writer...........no. Just no.

Show me documented evidence that Shueisha demanded there be an armadillo penis in the story and I will retract every negative thing I ever said about Kishi.

-I don't think people are actually placing blame on Shueisha and the editors for all of Kishimoto's screw-ups. But DeDe has a point. Prior to this, we've had a much more mature and thoughtful Naruto. Ok so he wasn't Shikamaru or anything, but the current Naruto we know would not be THIS gullible. All of a sudden it seems his I.Q took a nosedive by 80 points.

-Now while I cannot defend the armadillo penis, we do know from Kishimoto's interviews that Shueisha wanted several things to be added to the story. The first one that comes to mind is Sasuke is himself. He was never planned originally but Shueisha made Kishimoto create a rival for Naruto. I guess a boy who has a demon sealed within him, has no parents and an entire village hating his guts wasn't good enough or something. The second is creating stories for Suigetsu, Juugo and Karin. Kishimoto never planned to do much with them yet Shueisha made him create stories for them too.

[Animeblue]

am beginning to think this was mandated by Shueisha. Perhaps they thought Naruto was too serious and needed to be more of the innocent and naive Naruto of the past? Naruto was always daft, but I can't explain why he is acting this stupid now. In no universe should a character like Aoba be dissing Naruto. Kishi just wrote an entire arc about how everyone in Konoha now respects Naruto. And here we have people lying to him and making fun of him behind his back about how stupid he is?

Same here considering how Team Taka was created because Shueisha/the editors intervention

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-I don't think people are actually placing blame on Shueisha and the editors for all of Kishimoto's screw-ups. But DeDe has a point. Prior to this, we've had a much more mature and thoughtful Naruto. Ok so he wasn't Shikamaru or anything, but the current Naruto we know would not be THIS gullible. All of a sudden it seems his I.Q took a nosedive by 80 points.

Yeah, or maybe Kishi just wrote himself into a corner and came up with some BS reason for why Naruto couldn't immediately enter into the war. It wouldn't be the first time Kishi undermined the intelligence and integrity of a character (of course, I'll be willing to change my stance on this if we get some actual evidence that Shueisha made him do it).

-Now while I cannot defend the armadillo penis, we do know from Kishimoto's interviews that Shueisha wanted several things to be added to the story. The first one that comes to mind is Sasuke is himself. He was never planned originally but Shueisha made Kishimoto create a rival for Naruto. I guess a boy who has a demon sealed within him, has no parents and an entire village hating his guts wasn't good enough or something.

Yeah, and Sasuke actually worked fairly well for a while before Kishi forgot how to write a decent story. It's no one's fault but Kishi's that Sasuke is now this revenge-obsessed, sharingan-spamming, whiny douchebag who shows no emotion or logic in anything he does.

The second is creating stories for Suigetsu, Juugo and Karin. Kishimoto never planned to do much with them yet Shueisha made him create stories for them too.

Apparently he didn't listen to them, because I haven't seen a story for any of the three of them so far.

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Apparently he didn't listen to them, because I haven't seen a story for any of the three of them so far.

You mean like Suigetsu seeking all the swords from the 7 Swordsman of the Mist. His rivalry with Kisame, Juugo's backstory with Kimimaro. His battle to keep his blood lust side under wraps. Karin's whole story with Sasuke including having met him during the Chuunin exams. And her now dumping of Sasuke and hooking up with Konoha. And their fights with both KB and the Raikage. Kishimoto would never have written any of that if not for his editors.

That might not seem like much, but it's more than 50% of the Konoha 11 have gotten and they are supposedly the core characters. Well at least the anime seems to think so. Where the hell are stories for Tenten and Shino?

Anyway, we'll never know what his editors suggested him to write. Unless he tells us like with Taka and Sasuke. But I could see his editors telling him they want to see more of the idiot and lovable Naruto. Remember, the manga audience is still 13 year old boys and they want to laugh. Very rare to find a serious all the time Shonen hero. Maybe Naruto was getting a little too introspective for them.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

You mean like Suigetsu seeking all the swords from the 7 Swordsman of the Mist. His rivalry with Kisame, Juugo's backstory with Kimimaro. His battle to keep his blood lust side under wraps. Karin's whole story with Sasuke including having met him during the Chuunin exams. And her now dumping of Sasuke and hooking up with Konoha. And their fights with both KB and the Raikage. Kishimoto would never have written any of that if not for his editors.

Oh, is that what they were? I thought they were just cheap little asides that were never fully developed and that Kishi made in a desperate attempt to make the audience have any sort of concern for them.

Oh, and as far as Suigetsu vs. Kisame. Yeah, some rivalry.

[LadyKikyo91]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-I don't think people are actually placing blame on Shueisha and the editors for all of Kishimoto's screw-ups. But DeDe has a point. Prior to this, we've had a much more mature and thoughtful Naruto. Ok so he wasn't Shikamaru or anything, but the current Naruto we know would not be THIS gullible. All of a sudden it seems his I.Q took a nosedive by 80 points.

-Now while I cannot defend the armadillo penis, we do know from Kishimoto's interviews that Shueisha wanted several things to be added to the story. The first one that comes to mind is Sasuke is himself. He was never planned originally but Shueisha made Kishimoto create a rival for Naruto. I guess a boy who has a demon sealed within him, has no parents and an entire village hating his guts wasn't good enough or something. The second is creating stories for Suigetsu, Juugo and Karin. Kishimoto never planned to do much with them yet Shueisha made him create stories for them too.

Well Shueisha didnt't make him create Sasuke. Techinically Kishi came up with Sasuke because when they first created the series the plot was going nowhere so he and his editor came up with a rival for naruto. Now Sakura Shueisha was responsible for her becoming the heroine of the series though im not sure if there was a different heroine or there was no heroine. Also Shueisha also did make him focus more on Suigetsu, Karin, and Juugo when he originally didn't want to. But yea can't blame Shuesha for Kishi's lack of writing skills.

[Fran~]

Where is mah Kurotsuchi's Fanart?

[Hunter]

When has Naruto not been an idiot? I mean it's really nothing new, he even said it himself during the previous arc. Every single character who taugh him something also commented on it and were baffled at the fact Jiraiya managed to teach him anything.
Seriously do you even remember that he had to be told that Senjutsu was like icecream before he started to grasp the concept?

Naruto's archetype is the basic bordeline retarded- good hearted-eating like a pig-battlesmart-super charismatic type. That's what he always has been and always will be.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Naruto's archetype is the basic bordeline retarded- good hearted-eating like a pig-battlesmart-super charismatic type. That's what he always has been and always will be.

Yeah... they say that Naruto inspired to some guy named Toriyama...

I don't understand, after 10 year's of Naruto, what's the problem with Naruto being the 21th century's Goku

[yakumo-chan]

I hope Yamato dies...

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Fran~

I don't understand, after 10 year's of Naruto, what's the problem with Naruto being the 21th century's Goku

-Because he is not Goku, that's the problem. Oh sure, the concept behind the 2 is pretty much the same, but when you break it down, they are like oil and water. Goku was raised in the wilderness by some old man, Naruto was raised by the society around him. Goku is able to grasp the basics of a move with sheer instinct, while Naruto needs the broken down explaination to be broken down and explained.

-However, both of these characters, while being portrayed as naive and gullible for comedic effect, were rather perceptive to the people around them. As in they could tell something was wrong about the behaviour of the people they know. And now all of a sudden, Naruto doesn't have that? When just last arc we were told he could see through Sakura's lies. Granted, he didn't know what she was planning but he could tell there was "something wrong" and acted on it. Yet why does he not do that now? He knows something is off yet decides to shut up and go with it?

[Haak]

We've seen Naruto do all sorts of stupid shit, but gullibility on this level is a new one to me. The thing is, the story never actually took Naruto's stupidity seriously. When Kishi wanted comedy he'd make Naruto a retard but when the story got serious Naruto's stupidity only extended as far as being angry and reckless. To actually explain something that's related to the war with something like this is just a bit jarring.