Feedback: Retiring the Reputation System was the Right Choice.

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Since the abolishment of the Reputation system, I feel that the discussions - at least on those threads I frequent - have become noticeably less engaging. Several people who in my opinion wrote longer, well-thought-out postings in the past have either reduced their commitments or stopped posting altogether. The threads have become quieter, and with the exception of people heatedly debating with each other 1:1, the intensity has decreased. More 1-2 liner ditto posts.

Bringing back the dot-less "rep" system would solve your problem. The scary green dots will be gone, but people will be able to tell each other that they read their posts and they like them, which is kinda the main motivation [nothing like posting an essay of great wisdom and intellect only to believe you're just ignored tl;drlololol].

I did actually want the green dots to be gone. When I had a lot and bullied around minor rep weaklings like Archon_Wing (), I didn't want to rep too much or at all because liking someone's one-liner gave them like three straight dots or something.

But otherwise meh, people are really trying hard to convince themselves it got better.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

The scary green dots will be gone, but people will be able to tell each other that they read their posts and they like them, which is kinda the main motivation [nothing like posting an essay of great wisdom and intellect only to believe you're just ignored tl;drlololol].

Well, this happens all the time when you write, though. It isn't necessarily the most intelligent well-written piece that gets the most attention. Sometimes it's just the most snarky, or the one that most-agrees with the opinions of others. Even when I first joined, there were a lot of posts that I put a lot of effort into that got no feedback, but posting an image or re-posting some piece of common information seemed to rake in the points. You can consider also the reason why blogs like to pepper their serious content with silly polls and fluff -- those often bring in the hits more than the "good stuff", sadly enough.

But then again, we shouldn't be posting to get comments about our posts, but to be part of the conversation. Otherwise, we should all just get blogs.

Originally Posted by Irenicus

But otherwise meh, people are really trying hard to convince themselves it got better.

What's clear is that the rep games were playing on both the positive and negative sides have stopped, along with the "drama" this caused. This, to me, is a clear improvement that I don't need to be convinced about. The impact on broader discussion is really debatable, though.

(This isn't commenting either way on your proposal, which is not out of the question.)

[HasuMasu]

Blogs are kinda lonely, even with lots of comments.

Regarding rep though, while I miss the green dots for their aesthetic value, right now I think the absence of rep release some stress because I remember giving out a lot of negative rep which I can't imagine being very good for my peace of mind.

[LeoXiao]

I can't recall giving out any negreps here because I find that the posters here aren't annoying enough that I don't even want to respond to them. Posreps are great though.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

I can't imagine that rep really encouraged people to post better at least to a significant degree.

It wasn't really about posts being better, just about the tone and level of engagement. Mentar dislikes that those long, passionate (and perhaps polarized) posts have become rarer and are replaced by shorter, blander postings. I'm sure there are plenty of people who disliked the posts that Mentar did and much prefer where we are now. There are probably also people who would disagree that most posts made today aren't engaging.

I'm in agreement with Mentar's opinion, but I feel that the trend he noticed was occurring well before the reputation system was removed. The list threads were the most apparent showing of this trend, where people would drop posts as if they were writing on a blog and little to no actual discussion took place. While it makes sense that a list thread wouldn't involve much discussion, that trend of "post dumping" became more apparent in other threads, as well. It was as if the first post was simply a guideline for what to write a blog post about; the posts made after the first post were largely ignored. The reputation system doesn't offer a fix for that.

[Archon_Wing]

Those trends of "quick blog posts" have been happening for the longest time. I just haven't really noticed the difference.

Besides, looking at my forum experience as a whole, that would somehow suggest that forums with reputation system are far more productive. I really can't say I do. It has more to do with the moderation level.

And of course, since repping is arbitrary anyways, it's very possible that it restricts people to a "narrow" definition of good post. As in, well written post that is less likely to bring up disagreement.

It also just is possible that certain series are prone to more discussion potential.

Originally Posted by Irenicus

I did actually want the green dots to be gone. When I had a lot and bullied around minor rep weaklings like Archon_Wing (), I didn't want to rep too much or at all because liking someone's one-liner gave them like three straight dots or something.

But otherwise meh, people are really trying hard to convince themselves it got better.

Clearly, your evil bourgeois ways were revealed!

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by Hasumi

Blogs are kinda lonely, even with lots of comments.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but can you elaborate on this some more? Do you mean they are "lonely" for the blogger or the visitors who comment? Personally, I typically see plenty of interaction between members in commenting systems like disqus, but most of the comments I see aren't very engaging; they're mostly just clever one-line quips as if the member's sole purpose for posting is to rack up the most rep+. It doesn't have the same feeling to me as a real forum community has where real in-depth conversations usually take place.

[HasuMasu]

I don't know, it's just the general feeling I get from them.

They don't at all feel like a community, each post is self-contained.

[Triple_R]

Blogs are like one person giving a speech/presentation, and then afterwards this person takes feedback from the audience. A bit of a discussion may ensue, but it typically revolves around the presenter and whatever his/her opinion is on the topic s/he was discussing. So it can be a 'lonely' experience for the visitors who comment. For the blog writer, though, it can be very fun, engaging, and even challenging. But blogs take a lot of time and commitment and the ability to either do episodics or consistently come up with good topics to basically write essays on. So I personally enjoyed blog writing for a time, but eventually lost interest in it.

Forums like Anime Suki do have a tighter community feel, imo, because they don't revolve around any specific presenter. It also helps that discussion here is a bit more in-depth than what you tend to get on Twitter and various chat services.

[relentlessflame]

I guess my point in bringing it up is that sometimes people write posts that are sort of like "one person giving a speech/presentation", and then they want to get feedback about what they said... but that isn't necessarily the best way to post on a forum (though it is the nature of a blog). This is one of the reasons, for example, why we don't allow people to re-post their blog posts in forum threads, because it's subtly making themselves and their essays the subject, rather than being part of the conversation already in progress. Blogs are about "posting", but forums are really about "replying".

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Since the abolishment of the Reputation system, I feel that the discussions - at least on those threads I frequent - have become noticeably less engaging. Several people who in my opinion wrote longer, well-thought-out postings in the past have either reduced their commitments or stopped posting altogether. The threads have become quieter, and with the exception of people heatedly debating with each other 1:1, the intensity has decreased. More 1-2 liner ditto posts.

(Then again, this is a subjective impression, I have no objective numbers to back up my claim)

Is this what the Board community wanted to achieve? If so, it was a full success. I'm not happy about it.

Hmm. If you've only noticed this with a handful of posters in a few select threads, maybe those posters have reduced their level of involvement for other reasons? Whether your impressions are correct or not is such a blurry issue that I have no strong feelings either way, but I have trouble imagining that disposing of the Reputation system would have such a significant impact. The majority of those who write long messages do so because they're passionate about the subject and like discussing it, or just enjoy writing, with positive reputations generally just a nice bonus. The Reputation system has also been gone long enough that it's probably reached 'out of sight, out of mind' territory for most people.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I guess my point in bringing it up is that sometimes people write posts that are sort of like "one person giving a speech/presentation", and then they want to get feedback about what they said... but that isn't necessarily the best way to post on a forum (though it is the nature of a blog). This is one of the reasons, for example, why we don't allow people to re-post their blog posts in forum threads, because it's subtly making themselves and their essays the subject, rather than being part of the conversation already in progress. Blogs are about "posting", but forums are really about "replying".

Sometimes I'll make a post just giving my thoughts for consideration without directly engaging in any ongoing tangents, so I can understand that. What I find bizarre is people whose posts are pretty much just bullet point summaries of what they just saw with no commentary... These happened during the rep era and still happen, so I don't see it as being related.

[monir]

One of the biggest and the most immediate impact of no-more-cookies is the steady decline of "volunteers" who made gifs and sigs for other people on request.

Valvrave: 3 posts.
Suisei: 2 posts.
Titan: 8 posts.

It's a desert.

[Archon_Wing]

Ah, that definitely is a loss, though maybe a feature can be tossed in that area that would mark known graphics contributors.

That is an issue that can be considered, not scrubs that need to l2p and moan about how their mediocre (at best) posts aren't being appreciated.

[Vexx]

Yeah, that's why I try to keep the idea of a simple positive gold star system might be a good thing (the happy part of the rep system). The creative folks like that simple form of kudos.

I get the impression that the looming software upgrade for the forum makes the owners/admins a bit hesitant to implement any more changes until that happens.

[monster]

What about different badges, one for avatar request, one for signature request, etc., but not one for liking a post/member.

Kind of like those scout badges, except a member can receive each badge multiple times from other members.

Just make the purpose of these badges clear so that it won't be confused with overall popularity and/or post quality.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by monster

What about different badges, one for avatar request, one for signature request, etc., but not one for liking a post/member.

Kind of like those scout badges, except a member can receive each badge multiple times from other members.

Just make the purpose of these badges clear so that it won't be confused with overall popularity and/or post quality.

That has a nice feel to it, though I have no idea what would be required in terms of programming.

[Daniel E.]

Originally Posted by monir

One of the biggest and the most immediate impact of no-more-cookies is the steady decline of "volunteers" who made gifs and sigs for other people on request.

I am not so sure about this to be honest. Tons of sigmakers have left the forum in recent years, and others (like me) no longer make sigs and only work, at best, on the stuff they plan to use themselves. The banner contest was already showing signs of this (less entries) way before the rep system was removed too.

I do agree that this has likely worsen the situation with sig requests, though.

[NorthernFallout]

The signature request has more to do with users either not using the sigs, having too specific demands, providing bad sources, or coming back for more pretty fast, making it not worth it. IMO.

Though I admit the removal of the rep system might have been a factor as well.

EDIT: And also what Daniel said.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by monir

One of the biggest and the most immediate impact of no-more-cookies is the steady decline of "volunteers" who made gifs and sigs for other people on request.

Valvrave: 3 posts.
Suisei: 2 posts.
Titan: 8 posts.

It's a desert.

We're very busy with volunteer works now....