AnimeSuki Forums

Ithekro · 2009-03-20, 15:16

Basically, the yellow parts are the show itself and we, the viewer, are actaully starting in the "middle" of the story, after the first (or 12th...whatever) jump back. What we are given is the Second Timeline until Episode 16 where the choice is made. We are shown choice A first...this leads us back to Timeline One (Nagisa dies). We got though Ushio Arc then get sent back to the point of choice (Episode 16/22) and see choice B...Nagisa lives (orange path)

In theory it could mean that the first run we get, Tomoya is short just one orb, and gets in from his father after having skipped it the other times though. Therefore he goes back one last time and is finally able to save Nagisa. If one looks at it in Game terms.

I choose to view it slightly differently, but that is my choice.

Nosauz · 2009-03-20, 15:17

Couldn't the IW, be thought of as a reseptical for the towns happiness? Even though its created by Ushio, I assume from a happiness orb. Also if IW is a vessel for the happiness of the town, it implies that the towns shared happiness is much like the shared happiness within a family and hence the happiness within the town/family brings about the miracle of Nagisa not dying. Of course this could just be my delusional thinking. With the projected feelings of happiness the idea that family is based on a "home" which Nagisa emphasizes to Tomoya in Episode 16 when Tomoya and his father meet in jail for the first time. The concept of home and how it ties in with the town, and the importance of a "home" in a family makes me think that the town's collective happiness brought about the miracle. This is one thing that makes me confused, if all the happiness is used to give Nagisa and Tomoya this miracle, how can IW still exisit? And was there some form of IW when Nagisa was 5 since Akio also made a similar wish for Nagisa?

Kaioshin Sama · 2009-03-20, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proto

Yes, he already did. The one who switched contexts wasn't Tomoya himself, but us, as in the viewer when we reached the dimensional crossroad.

Or you could say that prior to his decision both timelines existed simultaneously, in a Schrodinger cat kind of way. It wasn't till he took his decision that both timelines collapsed into timeline 2. In any case we were shown those episodes so we could come to understand:

- The existance of the IW
- The existance of Timeline 2 itself
- The significance of the crossroad were timeline 1 and 2 radically diverge.

Then why does Tomoya seem to be all buddy buddy with Kyou in episode 20 if we the viewer crossed timelines? The graph seems to imply that they never really met or bonded in any meaningful way in Timeline 1 and thus Tomoya lacks the light orbs there.

Proto · 2009-03-20, 15:29

That is something I don't completely agree with the graph.From my POV, the only thing that changed between the past of Timeline 1 and Timeline 2 was the gathering of lights, the unconscious need to gather the happiness and memories from the people from the town.

Tyabann · 2009-03-20, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Then why does Tomoya seem to be all buddy buddy with Kyou in episode 20 if we the viewer crossed timelines? The graph seems to imply that they never really met or bonded in any meaningful way in Timeline 1 and thus Tomoya lacks the light orbs there.

?

Tomoya and Kyou had been friends since their second year of high school. They're fairly close from the very start of the story.

Ithekro · 2009-03-20, 17:36

Also why he calls her by her given name rather than her family name I would guess...since he calls Ryou "Fujibayashi", by Kyou is "Kyou".

Tyabann · 2009-03-20, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Also why he calls her by her given name rather than her family name I would guess...since he calls Ryou "Fujibayashi", by Kyou is "Kyou".

He has trouble getting that out of his mindset in the Twins' route too, which was very amusing.

Proto · 2009-03-20, 17:40

Quote:

?

Tomoya and Kyou had been friends since their second year of high school. They're fairly close from the very start of the story.

She talked about how Sunohara, Ryou and Kotomi had talked about paying him a visit. If we take the timeline at face value he shouldn't be that well acquainted with either Ryou or Kotomi, nor should they have any reason to form a cohesive group.

Tyabann · 2009-03-20, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proto

She talked about how Sunohara, Ryou and Kotomi had talked about paying him a visit. If we take the timeline at face value he shouldn't be that well acquainted with either Ryou or Kotomi, nor should they have any reason to form a cohesive group.

Oh, okay then.

Yeah, that timeline is stupid.

Ithekro · 2009-03-20, 17:49

Well Ryou is in his own class...so he'll know her at least. Kotomi on the other hand is a question. I suppose it depends on how the route stucture goes. Timeline One has to be able to get into After Story to fuction. If you can do Nagisa's route without interacting with Kotomi, then you have a potental flaw.

However there is something to be said for the yellow path having to follow what came before it...so the Yellow path would have references to Timeline Two even in the Timeline One portion because that is the routes "present" Tomoya had taken up to that point.

**Klashikari** · 2009-03-20, 17:50

Not really. If they defined Nagisa's "route" in the anime with such cohesion (since the actual events aren't show as different timelines but successive events, which may or may not give a light orb), the fact Tomoya and the rest of the characters are being that close isn't a paradox.

They never implied such thing in the game, but since the anime changed the story to have a single timeline, it still makes sense.
If Tomoya "already helped" the girl from the original timelines, it doesn't actually mean he could have orbs with everyone. Likewise, we cannot claim X or Y events could happen so smoothly before.

Tyabann · 2009-03-20, 18:49

In the game, Kotomi only appears within her own route (and the Sunohara Gay End if you're going for that).

So yeah, the timeline diagram is dumb.

**Klashikari** · 2009-03-20, 18:58

The diagram is only applied to the anime series, obviously.

To begin with, the game wouldn't need a diagram considering its structure which is much easier to figure as several timelines unlike the anime series.

So the given diagram is hardly anything dumb here.

Tyabann · 2009-03-20, 19:07

Still doesn't work the way the diagram shows though.

In this case, I'd say Tomoya actually went back in time than into an alternate universe...

VRMN · 2009-03-20, 19:16

*sighs*

The only orb he collects after Nagisa's death is his father's. The anime depicts one timeline up until the ending. One. There is an implied and undepicted first timeline where he fails and is then sent on his mission, which we see in the anime.

That's my interpretation. The graph overcomplicates things, honestly.

Tyabann · 2009-03-20, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by VRMN

*sighs*

The only orb he collects after Nagisa's death is his father's. The anime depicts one timeline up until the ending. One. There is an implied and undepicted first timeline where he fails and is then sent on his mission, which we see in the anime.

That's my interpretation. The graph overcomplicates things, honestly.

This works too.

Hamchan · 2009-03-20, 20:50

Timeline kinda makes sense to me but my head is still reeling. I think i'll go play the game now to actually 'get' this. Kinda reminds me of watching lost actually

Tyabann · 2009-03-20, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamchan

Timeline kinda makes sense to me but my head is still reeling. I think i'll go play the game now to actually 'get' this. Kinda reminds me of watching lost actually

The game makes more sense, due to the fact that you (as Tomoya) are actually traveling into a different timeline every time you click "New Game", effectively.

Nosauz · 2009-03-20, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

In the game, Kotomi only appears within her own route (and the Sunohara Gay End if you're going for that).

So yeah, the timeline diagram is dumb.

You mean sunohara gar end... or sunohara awesome end, the fact that sunohara makes no passes on any girls the entire game brings up the possible siscom or the I like to fence complex.

Tyabann · 2009-03-20, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosauz

the fact that sunohara makes no passes on any girls the entire game

Have you actually played the game?

Sunohara hits on Sanae, Nagisa, Tomoyo, Misae, Kyou, Yukine, Kotomi (kinda), and Ryou if you make certain choices. (I don't remember him hitting on Fuuko, though I'm probably wrong.)

He's most certainly straight.

2009-03-20, 15:16	Link #61
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Basically, the yellow parts are the show itself and we, the viewer, are actaully starting in the "middle" of the story, after the first (or 12th...whatever) jump back. What we are given is the Second Timeline until Episode 16 where the choice is made. We are shown choice A first...this leads us back to Timeline One (Nagisa dies). We got though Ushio Arc then get sent back to the point of choice (Episode 16/22) and see choice B...Nagisa lives (orange path) In theory it could mean that the first run we get, Tomoya is short just one orb, and gets in from his father after having skipped it the other times though. Therefore he goes back one last time and is finally able to save Nagisa. If one looks at it in Game terms. I choose to view it slightly differently, but that is my choice. __________________

2009-03-20, 15:29	Link #64
Proto Knowledge is the solution Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 39	That is something I don't completely agree with the graph.From my POV, the only thing that changed between the past of Timeline 1 and Timeline 2 was the gathering of lights, the unconscious need to gather the happiness and memories from the people from the town. __________________ How to play Japanese games in Linux

2009-03-20, 17:36	Link #66
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Also why he calls her by her given name rather than her family name I would guess...since he calls Ryou "Fujibayashi", by Kyou is "Kyou". __________________

2009-03-20, 17:49	Link #70
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Well Ryou is in his own class...so he'll know her at least. Kotomi on the other hand is a question. I suppose it depends on how the route stucture goes. Timeline One has to be able to get into After Story to fuction. If you can do Nagisa's route without interacting with Kotomi, then you have a potental flaw. However there is something to be said for the yellow path having to follow what came before it...so the Yellow path would have references to Timeline Two even in the Timeline One portion because that is the routes "present" Tomoya had taken up to that point. __________________

2009-03-20, 17:50	Link #71
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	Not really. If they defined Nagisa's "route" in the anime with such cohesion (since the actual events aren't show as different timelines but successive events, which may or may not give a light orb), the fact Tomoya and the rest of the characters are being that close isn't a paradox. They never implied such thing in the game, but since the anime changed the story to have a single timeline, it still makes sense. If Tomoya "already helped" the girl from the original timelines, it doesn't actually mean he could have orbs with everyone. Likewise, we cannot claim X or Y events could happen so smoothly before. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2009-03-20, 15:17	Link #62
Nosauz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Age: 35	Couldn't the IW, be thought of as a reseptical for the towns happiness? Even though its created by Ushio, I assume from a happiness orb. Also if IW is a vessel for the happiness of the town, it implies that the towns shared happiness is much like the shared happiness within a family and hence the happiness within the town/family brings about the miracle of Nagisa not dying. Of course this could just be my delusional thinking. With the projected feelings of happiness the idea that family is based on a "home" which Nagisa emphasizes to Tomoya in Episode 16 when Tomoya and his father meet in jail for the first time. The concept of home and how it ties in with the town, and the importance of a "home" in a family makes me think that the town's collective happiness brought about the miracle. This is one thing that makes me confused, if all the happiness is used to give Nagisa and Tomoya this miracle, how can IW still exisit? And was there some form of IW when Nagisa was 5 since Akio also made a similar wish for Nagisa?

2009-03-20, 18:49	Link #72
Tyabann Homo Ludens Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canada Age: 34	In the game, Kotomi only appears within her own route (and the Sunohara Gay End if you're going for that). So yeah, the timeline diagram is dumb.

2009-03-20, 18:58	Link #73
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	The diagram is only applied to the anime series, obviously. To begin with, the game wouldn't need a diagram considering its structure which is much easier to figure as several timelines unlike the anime series. So the given diagram is hardly anything dumb here. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2009-03-20, 19:07	Link #74
Tyabann Homo Ludens Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canada Age: 34	Still doesn't work the way the diagram shows though. In this case, I'd say Tomoya actually went back in time than into an alternate universe...

2009-03-20, 19:16	Link #75
VRMN Dangoism Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: East Lansing, MI Age: 37	sighs The only orb he collects after Nagisa's death is his father's. The anime depicts one timeline up until the ending. One. There is an implied and undepicted first timeline where he fails and is then sent on his mission, which we see in the anime. That's my interpretation. The graph overcomplicates things, honestly.

2009-03-20, 20:50	Link #77
Hamchan The World Ends With Me! Join Date: Mar 2009	Timeline kinda makes sense to me but my head is still reeling. I think i'll go play the game now to actually 'get' this. Kinda reminds me of watching lost actually