Canadian Elections 2008

[Hari Michiru]

Did anyone just watch the debate? I say Dion got owned by Layton in that one question.

[Brandt]

I watched the first 20 minutes then turned off the TV. Yeah, I decided my time was better spent reading about the debate in the papers this morning instead.

[ShuiMei]

I think it's valid to criticize M. Dion for his record of not voting against some controversial bills put forward by the Harper government, but seeing as Harper essentially held parliament hostage by making these nonessential bills confidence motions, his voting them down would mean an election. With that, I understand why M. Dion did what he did. The NDP has the "advantage" of never having been in federal government or been in a position to form government, so Jack Layton can play the role of moral superior while blaming the Liberals for everything.

Even still, I thought Jack did moderately well. I don't personally like him very much, I think he's smarmy and his dishonesty about carbon pricing policies throughout this campaign has been an increasing point of frustration for me.

Jack Layton tells the public that his environment plan will "punish the big polluters" while the Liberal Green Shift will "hurt families." Only there's not enough people who will call him out on the fact that his cap-and-trade proposal will mean costs being carried down from the large industrial carbon emitters to the average consumer. So while both plans (cap-and-trade and carbon tax) will add costs on to consumers, either directly or indirectly, the Liberal plan offers tax cuts and credits to offset the new costs of carbon for the consumer.

There's no way Jack Layton doesn't know that his proposal will add costs to consumers, he's just too politically disingenuous to be honest about it. People can say what they want about M. Dion's "lack of charisma" but at least he's putting forward a bold plan that will help prepare Canada for the future and being upfront about it.

If I have any major criticism of M. Dion's performance in the debates it's that he spent much of his time explaining the Liberals positions but not enough on explaining what was wrong and dishonest about the NDP and Conservatives plans. However, Elizabeth May did a great job of tearing the Conservative plan apart so... I guess it's alright

[Hari Michiru]

I find it ironic on how the Liberals are so fussy about Harper 'copying' someone else's speech when they did the same thing (Greenshift).

[ShuiMei]

What about the Green Shift did the Liberals copy, the idea? That's hardly something I think they should be criticized for, carbon taxes have been advocated by many economists, environmentalists, and governments. If you want to criticize the Liberals for not doing enough on climate change in the past I think that's a fair criticism but I think it's commendable that the Liberals have the political courage to push for the right kind of environmental policy despite the political ramifications around the idea of a new tax.

What Harper did was basically regurgitate a speech by the Australian Prime Minister on an issue he grilled the Liberal government of the day for, I mean his Iraq war speech was applauded, printed in newspapers and made into Canadian Alliance handouts. On a significant international issue with deep consequences, Harper let others speak for him and his party.

It's not even so much a matter of plagiarism as it is a matter of Canadian sovereignty: did the speechwriter simply copy from PM John Howard's speech two days earlier, or were these lines sent out by the Bush administration to their ideological allies around the world? From this matter, there are serious questions that can be raised here about how independent Canada's voice is in regards to foreign affairs, it is genuine cause for concern.

[Hari Michiru]

Originally Posted by ShuiMei

From this matter, there are serious questions that can be raised here about how independent Canada's voice is in regards to foreign affairs, it is genuine cause for concern.

I'm sad to say, as a Canadian, Canada does not have an independent voice in international politics.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Hari Michiru

I'm sad to say, as a Canadian, Canada does not have an independent voice in international politics.

Not since Diefenbaker at least.

[4Tran]

I haven't been following the Canadian election all that closely, but I do know that Canada is currently weathering the financial crisis better than any of the other G8 countries (heck, Canada has the most solid banks in the world right now). But how well it will continue doing is going to be dependent on the government's fiscal policy. This article in Bloomberg caught my eye: Canada Agrees to Buy C$25 Billion in Mortgages

Oct. 10 (Bloomberg) -- The Canadian government shored up the nation's banks by taking on some of their mortgages in a bid to ease soaring borrowing costs that have crippled lending.

Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp., a government-run agency, will buy as much as C$25 billion ($21.6 billion) in mortgages from the banks, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said today in Ottawa. The lenders will get cash, giving them more money to lend to consumers and businesses.

``This transaction is simply a market intervention,'' Prime Minister Stephen Harper told reporters today. ``It's a market transaction to ensure our credit markets are functioning strongly.''

In other words, the Conservative government is going down the same path of American interventions that have been pretty much futile. And they're planning to do so in a system that has been functioning a lot better than most other places. Moreover, a rise in mortgage lending is not desirable right now.

Any Canadians out there should take a hard look at whether this kind of risk in these unsettling times is warranted, and whether this direction of Conservative fiscal policy is going to be good for them.

[Hari Michiru]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I haven't been following the Canadian election all that closely, but I do know that Canada is currently weathering the financial crisis better than any of the other G8 countries (heck, Canada has the most solid banks in the world right now). But how well it will continue doing is going to be dependent on the government's fiscal policy. This article in Bloomberg caught my eye: Canada Agrees to Buy C$25 Billion in Mortgages


In other words, the Conservative government is going down the same path of American interventions that have been pretty much futile. And they're planning to do so in a system that has been functioning a lot better than most other places. Moreover, a rise in mortgage lending is not desirable right now.

Any Canadians out there should take a hard look at whether this kind of risk in these unsettling times is warranted, and whether this direction of Conservative fiscal policy is going to be good for them.

Acutally, compared to the other party leaders, Harper is the least willing to lend out money to the banks right now (they are the most stable banks in the world, so why would you want to lend more to them?). The NDP and the Liberals made the Financial Crisis sound like the end of the world a few weeks ago.

[Shadow Kira01]

Originally Posted by Hari Michiru

I'm sad to say, as a Canadian, Canada does not have an independent voice in international politics.

Its nothing to be sad about. It only indicates that Canada is a country of peace and is not one to be involving the country people in other countries' businesses. In a sense, the country is actually working on its national interest rather than taking unnecessary international political stances.

Besides, most countries in the world don't have an independent voice in international politics, except for just a handful or so.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Time to see the results folks.

[Garet Jax]

Looks like the Conservatives struck more of a chord with people than the media suggested. They can outvote the Liberals + NDP by themselves now, giving the balance back to the Bloc once again.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Well that election accomplished very little. Tories up a bit, Liberals and NDP down a bit, but nothing that will change the scale of power in parliament.

[SeedFreedom]

So what are the conservatives chances at majority now?

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Well that election accomplished very little. Tories up a bit, Liberals and NDP down a bit, but nothing that will change the scale of power in parliament.

So in other words it's like we never even voted at all in the first place....

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by SeedFreedom

So what are the conservatives chances at majority now?

I'd say somewhere in the range of 0%.

[Hari Michiru]

My riding is still a very tight race between the NDP and the Conservatives. I laugh at how Richmond's Raymond Chan lost though. xD That's what you get for not walking your talk, and being so cocky.

[Kaioshin Sama]

So how about that non-confidence motion and attempt to take control of the government on the part of a coalition led by the Liberals. Apparently the NDP and Bloc Quebecois (of all people) are in on it and we could have a new Prime Minister in Stephane Dion by Monday.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/...on-period.html

It almost seems like a given unless Harper can convince the Governor-General to allow him to suspend parliament, which in turn would make him look like a hypocrit trying to hold onto his minority government. I don't know, I think it's clear that the current minority government just cannot function and does not have enough support so I say let the Liberal coalition try and make things work. Stephen Harper got in on a chance and a non-confidence motion to so either he man's up and tries to weather it by going face to face with Dion, Layton and Duceppe or he shows his true colours.

[Samanosuke]

seriously...our political system is messed up .

[Shadow Kira01]

How interesting...

4 political parties taking on one, very fair battle. What happens if the Conservative government collapses on December 8th, but then.. The ultimate coalition loses the following election? I thought the Obama vs McCain election was interesting, but the Canadian one is just as interesting.