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View Poll Results: True Tears - Episode 13 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 106 | 40.93% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 63 | 24.32% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 32 | 12.36% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 16 | 6.18% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 14 | 5.41% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 6 | 2.32% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 1 | 0.39% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 4 | 1.54% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 17 | 6.56% | |
Voters: 259. You may not vote on this poll |
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2008-03-30, 09:48 | Link #162 |
Yummy, sweet and unyuu!!!
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Race, culture and religion aside . I've never thought any relationship built up on memories of childhood to be a healthy reason to move into a romantic relationship. I am sure there are 101 reasons why person A falls in love with person B, but lots of shows don't actually show any of that apart from some memory during childhood. So it looks to me like its someone wanting a romantic/adult relationship based on their memories of a child
At least with TT it has Shin wanting to continue to protect Hiromi and Hiromi wanting to be protected, so I can dig that.
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2008-03-30, 10:08 | Link #165 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Don't be hating. I did preface with "In my opinion" you know. And at least my post tied it into the subject at hand so was not off topic, as yours purely is. @DragoonKain3: Oh, I never said ALL childhood friend hook-ups are sub-par, only that the Hiromi-Shin one is in comparison to an Aiko-Shin or Noe-Shin one. I also have to agree about the promise/proposal point you made, for some reason I think School Days. We all know how that turned out. (Incidentally I loved that series.) It takes a very firm and unwavering heart to say that truthfully and stick to it and Shin was clearly shown not 30 seconds before to certainly not be firm and unwavering. It makes me feel that Shin actually regressed to some degree in his growth in this last episode. @Grey_Moon: Maybe it's just me but I like to feel equal with my significant other. The whole protected/protector thing is an easy plot device to fall into as an excuse for a relationship in my opinion. |
2008-03-30, 10:15 | Link #166 | |
Yummy, sweet and unyuu!!!
Join Date: Dec 2004
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My fiancée is a high level musician/artist and I'm a drunken geek. Nothing in common at first, but after quite a few years of being together and experiencing each other's likes and dislikes I feel like I've grown as a person. More importantly we've grown together as a couple. So for me from what we have seen in the show, Noe would be my choice if I was Shin.
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2008-03-30, 10:33 | Link #167 |
耳をすませば
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 34
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First off, hats off to the subbers (you know who) for their great job getting it out very quickly. We all really appreciate it.
First impressions posted here. My immediate reaction to the final pairing is that, well, it's what we've been expecting and predicting for ages. Is it the one I prefer? Well, no, as I've said. In fact I think the scene where Shin says his heart wavers is pretty important considering it agrees with the things we've been saying, and it dismisses the people who said only Hiromi was in his heart and he only liked Noe because of the deal. Personally I do believe that while the writers told us repeatedly that Hiromi and Shin would be the final true pairing, they (probably unintentionally) put more depth/basis behind the Noe pairing, and this is why I always preferred that one while predicting the Hiromi end. However I also found the development of Hiromi to be exactly what was necessary in episode 13. On the downside, I don't know why they deferred Noe's tears to the final few seconds rather than the climactic scene between her and Shin. More on that later. But here's my thoughts, spoiler-form so that I don't take up the entire page: My objective comments on episode 13: Spoiler:
Now here's my Noe-fan comments: Spoiler:
Thoughts on the entire relationship plot line, the idea of "consistency", the idea that those who analyze prefer a Hiromi ending, and why I think the show faltered on that: Spoiler:
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Last edited by Theowne; 2008-03-30 at 11:48. |
2008-03-30, 10:37 | Link #168 |
Bushinsoukou
Scanlator
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Sigh, we Noe fans lost...such is life...
It was a good episode, reasonable ending, and overall a great series. Something I could accept. Hiromi is stupid (some of you like to call that "realistic") but I don't hate her. Once she stopped being stupid she's a good girl. (Unlike Kimi ga nozomu eien, I hated Mizuki's guts XD) At least Miyokichi got together with Aiko. Yay! Miyokichi, you are a nice guy. Nice guys for the win! Miles better than stupid Shin who couldn't decide anything for himself) Last edited by W-General; 2008-03-30 at 10:50. |
2008-03-30, 10:40 | Link #169 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Beautiful ending.
Even though I would like Noe to be happy and be with Shin, I also want Hiromi and Shin to be happy also. I want all of them to be happy. I no longer hate Shin. I'm glad episode 13 tells us why he has been so indecisive for so long. I really hated the fact that he was so indecisive and hurts all the people around him. It turns out there's a good reason why. It turns out it's because of my favorite character Noe. Who would have thought it would turn out to be like that. Great episode! Great series! |
2008-03-30, 11:43 | Link #170 |
Shinsengumi captain
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the world of DeathGods
Age: 32
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Aww what a beautiful ending.
I would like to see Shin with Noe..dunno why, she kinda deserves it. Ah well, everything has come to a good end Wooah i really hope they'll make a 2nd season :O But i guess they wont (kinda know for sure) TT_TT |
2008-03-30, 11:46 | Link #172 |
o tempora o mores
Join Date: Feb 2008
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At the beginning of ep13, Jun asked Shin [if he understood] why Noe couldn't cry.
“self-suggestion...” "only that?" Jun and Shin both can't give shiyawase to or "save" Noe despite how much they long for. That is a tragedy. Noe is something, honorable. beautiful ending indeed. |
2008-03-30, 11:54 | Link #173 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Quote:
What societal norm should True Tears be going for instead? American? That good? Anyways, since you do seem to imply it, how is America the mecca of correct relationship execution? And how would that be demonstrated had Shin chosen Noe? |
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2008-03-30, 11:56 | Link #174 | |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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In effect, the depth of the Hiromi relationship was already in place - a (short) lifetime developed in the better part of ten episodes. The last three were all about testing that love. It's unorthodox, I grant you, but this isn't an orthodox series. |
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2008-03-30, 12:02 | Link #175 |
耳をすませば
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 34
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But what was the "depth of the Hiromi relationship"? The show makes us want to believe it but it just doesn't come off realistically in my opinion. There is a single childhood memory, and apart from that, Shin says they were "casual friends and classmates". In other words there was a long static relationship between them, until finally you have the whole "moving-in-mother-lie" thing which changed it even worse. Compared to the Noe relationship which prompted a lot of growth and development even in it's short time. These are things that Shin himself admits in episode 12 as well as the final break-up in episode 13. He says that he could draw, as well as dance, because of Noe. Those are very important elements of the story, and what he says there itself is stronger than anything that could be said about the other pairing, and the fact that it makes his heart "waver/ache" contradicts the idea that it was simply brotherly or appreciative. In other words I feel the opposite about which is the "easier" choice. In my mind, the Hiromi relationship represented familiarity with their long static acquaintance while the Noe relationship would have to mean recognizing the value independently of each person in relation to the development or growth of the story (and Shin).
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2008-03-30, 12:24 | Link #176 | |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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In some ways, it's a bit of the old logic vs. emotion argument. Noe was a rational choice, but Hiromi and Shin are so emotionally joined that they complete each other. Really, I think that was pretty much the first ten episodes right there. Shin and Hiromi had gone through their entire lives wanting to be together, and dealing with the things (some self-inflicted) that kept them apart. They needed a catalyst - and that was Noe. It would have been easier and neater if they could have "flown" without her help - without the emotional attachment she inspired in Shin. But they couldn't - she was necessary to their rising above those obstacles and in the process he came to love her as well, in a different way. That was 11-12 and the first half of 13. But in the end, Hiromi was Shin's inspiration and his reason for living, and he couldn't deny that fact. |
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2008-03-30, 12:53 | Link #177 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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So, yeah, that was no proposal. That was just determination born out of necessity. He made his decision, he went through that incredibly painful ordeal, and now he had to finish the job by making it clear to the one he loves that it's Over even if he still feels it (Over with a capital O, so as to avoid the mess his parents went through). I felt it fit perfectly with the preceding scene, and was totally connected to it. About the on-going conversation regarding the depth of Shinichirou and Hiromi's friendship, I can see how this confusion is happening because all that would have happened off-screen and we weren't privy to it. We know that they were close enough that all of Shinichirou and Hiromi's closest friends each thought it was only a matter of time before they started going out. But we don't get to see any of what that looked like. From the point where we pick up the story, Hiromi and Shinichirou have already been estranged for some time, and the only scene they give us to go by is that scene of them being obviously close as children. We also know that the distance Shinichirou was now feeling from Hiromi was dramatic enough for him to really take notice. Also the distance they had at school was also a point the other friends/observers in the school noticed as indicative of some sort of change. We can at least assume that they were in fact more than just "classmates and acquaintances". You do basically have to extrapolate the rest, though, and I guess that's where the difference of opinion is. Personally, my take is that they had been friends since childhood, since I feel that would best explain why Shinichirou is so troubled by their recent estrangement and why all the classmates and friends took notice of it, but of course that's just a theory based on the snippets of evidence they gave us. I do feel that that theory, though, better explains the depth of their relationship and why it's more than just some sort of superficial/juvenile crush, which in turn leads to my acceptance of the way the plot developed. But we all see things differently, I guess. |
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2008-03-30, 13:28 | Link #179 |
耳をすませば
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 34
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Well, there's only really a few clues that the writers give the viewers. For example, when Shin is with Noe, Tomoyo says "I thought he liked you!" to Hiromi but that hardly implies that there used to be a deep/inevitable relationship. The part about being "casual friends and classmates" were Shin's own words on the topic so I think it's fairly accurate as well. In fact, I'd agree about what Enzo said about Hiromi being the original "reason" while Noe made him able to do it (draw). I'd weigh the importance of those two things differently, though. He felt like he wanted to "draw" for Hiromi, but it was with Noe that he was actually able to do it. I just think it's odd that Shin and Hiromi are supposed to complete each other even though Shin tells us that two of the most important developments of his, which is being able to draw and performing that dance, are because of Noe. Even though I praised the realism of his admittance of that, it kind of left that hole open and made the final "decision" not as solid as it could have been. And then there's the other odd choice by the writers, which is to make Noe say that she jumped off the tree because she saw Shin's dance and wanted to fly as well. But then we learn that Shin was able to do his dance because of her.
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2008-03-30, 13:45 | Link #180 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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So... I see what you're saying, but I personally felt more was implied beyond just what was said outright. That being said, it's something I will watch for explicitly when I watch the series on DVD. I'm not sure that I see why you say that's so odd. They essentially inspired each other, which was the entire point of their breaking up scene and why it was both so painful and so laced with symbolism. His passion and determination inspired Noe to try flying herself, but she failed because she wasn't ready. Meanwhile, her earnestness and encouragement is what encouraged him to take that step and be able to dance (and draw). I see the two points as being perfectly complementary, myself... |
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