Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 09 Discussion / Poll

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by ashlay

didn't sound like it from that whole "and just when our economy started to get back on it's feet" line by the Union president a few weeks back.

That line also had the key parts of "and the world economy just recovered ten years ago with the completion of the orbital tower."

See the key parts? It's wasn't just the Union economy that recovered ten years ago, and the economic recover was with the completion of the space elevators and the access to the solar energy.

*Also note: Mark (the gundam guru) confirmed a Japanese source that the Union tower was the first completed, meaning that the Union and HRL towers were completed on basically the same year, with the Union edging out being first.

[Honey_and_Cleaver]

I dun think Felt is like Rei at all, i think shes more serious about her job, stronger and she keeps things to herself.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Marsala

Also, of the 3 major powers, only the HRL is formally anti-Gundam, so they would be the most likely to commit the necessary resources to such a scheme. The Union probably has near equal or even superior resources but would be less likely to go to such trouble.

No it's just that the HRL has the manpower to conduct such a resource-intensive operation. Which makes sense given the main countries that make up the HRL.

The AEU wouldn't even be able to do squat because their elevator's not even finished so they defintely have limited access to space. The leaders even noted that they are WAY behind not in just the space elevators but also in space development.

The Union is also formally anti-gundam, what with their Anti-Gundam squadron who just so happens to have people who are familiar with a certain captain of the Ptolemy.

Regardless, as Sergei noted, this isn't something you would want to repeat again and again.

[Paranoia833]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

The Union is also formally anti-gundam, what with their Anti-Gundam squadron who just so happens to have people who are familiar with a certain captain of the Ptolemy.

A squad they don't seem to have formally announced the existance of, judging by the prologue of episode 9 and the fact that Billy told Sumeragi they didn't even have a formal name.

So far only the HRL is taking the offensive against celestial being and comissioning a sizable force to stop them. The Union's anti-gundam squad is currently three pilots and their support staff who so far have engaged in a purely defensive capacity.

[MikeMania]

Yea, the Union's approach is much more independent, with the task force basically ordered to find out what they can whenever.

HRL's CB operations are very high priority with direct involvement from the big wigs.

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

What is it about the agenda of the AEU that you find so temperate?

And why is it that you do? AEU is just sitting back and letting things happen unlike HRL which is pressing the issue. It doesn't MATTER what is the 'cowardly' thing to do or not. They're all playing it in terms of their own politics. That's what politics usually boils down to especially in a relatively peaceful time in the 00 world as of now.

Why are you under the assumption that only the HRL could pull it off?

It wasn't me who said that. The show itself did. Pay attention. Like I said, I would assume that AEU and Union would have had the resources.

Are you seriously trying to argue that if they weren't justified in being extremely unalert, then they wouldn't have been so unalert? Or that nothing can go wrong on a ship in space? You do realize that the job of a bridge crew is more than just to monitor whether the enemy are approaching, don't you?

If I was the captain, I would be more alert, but it seems the ship's crew is nothing more than a bunch of qualified technicians and kids who are hired by whomever is running things behind the scenes. Again, it never seems to me like a proper military or even civilian group. It's basically a mercenary group and I doubt they'd really have the discipline needed. At least from now on, they should be more alert about it now that they've finally been attacked after the start of the operations.

My point was that it's just about impossible to tell who one's opponent is based purely on the tactics he uses. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue about here.

Sumeragi did point out Sergei, but that does not mean for absolute certainty that she knows either. Also, the strategic choices she had from the beginning was slim anyway.

Or here for that matter. How does what you wrote relate to my statement - which was to the effect that Sumeragi chose to go into the radio interference zone?

Why not? It seems she didn't think the attack would be a diversion the way it turned out to be. Arguing the specifics here is pretty moot. She was taken out of her element in the surprise attack. That's it.

No it isn't. We can see the ISS from the ground - and that's with atmospheric interference to consider.

I'm talking about it in the context of the world in 00 where there would be considerably more space ships and debris and satellites than there are today. Also, my argument that visual contact would be an unrealiable way to detect a single ship is that if they could have done that, then any of the 3 powers would have caught the CB ship a LONG time ago. Empirical logic.

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by Paranoia833

A squad they don't seem to have formally announced the existance of, judging by the prologue of episode 9 and the fact that Billy told Sumeragi they didn't even have a formal name.

So far only the HRL is taking the offensive against celestial being and comissioning a sizable force to stop them. The Union's anti-gundam squad is currently three pilots and their support staff who so far have engaged in a purely defensive capacity.

I don't know about the 'defensive' part when they're openly patrolling for a Gundam. When the time comes, I feel they'll do the offensive part justice.

Also, I think it's fair to say that Union's management on the issue is that they're informally making a task force against CB. We can't say for sure that they're on an open warpath yet. As for the AEU, it seems to me that they're taking a strictly off hands approach by using Moralia for now. Especially when the PMC of Moralia is a proxy of a proxy for AEU. So it's even beyond being informally against Celestial Being.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver

I dun think Felt is like Rei at all, i think shes more serious about her job, stronger and she keeps things to herself.

...Did you even watch Evangelion? You don't get much more serious about your job than Rei did, she was also very strong and guess what, she also kept things to herself. Thanks for proving my point.

[Honey_and_Cleaver]

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

...Did you even watch Evangelion? You don't get much more serious about your job than Rei did, she was also very strong and guess what, she also kept things to herself. Thanks for proving my point.

Your welcome. I think i still love Felt more than Rei. Because Rei would rather hang around with a swine like Shinji than a cool bastard like Lockon.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

And why is it that you do? AEU is just sitting back and letting things happen unlike HRL which is pressing the issue. It doesn't MATTER what is the 'cowardly' thing to do or not. They're all playing it in terms of their own politics. That's what politics usually boils down to especially in a relatively peaceful time in the 00 world as of now.

Are you back-tracking now? So far, you've been adamant that the AEU's public position is in no way cowardly (and in fact, is the sole place you've complained about my argument), and now you claim that you're arguing about a trivial point?

And as to their actual position, the problem is that they'd already been attacked (and at least twice). By stating that they won't do anything to Celestial Being outside of their borders effectively means that the AEU is letting them get away with it. It's really only a temperate response if they hadn't already been involved.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

It wasn't me who said that. The show itself did. Pay attention. Like I said, I would assume that AEU and Union would have had the resources.

You don't know the difference between "most likely to be the HRL" and "the HRL is the only power with the ability to do something like this"? Part of Sumeragi's reasoning is that Ptolemaios was near the HRL's airspace, along their portion of the orbital ring - it'd be less reasonable for any other bloc to be projecting their power there.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

I'm talking about it in the context of the world in 00 where there would be considerably more space ships and debris and satellites than there are today. Also, my argument that visual contact would be an unrealiable way to detect a single ship is that if they could have done that, then any of the 3 powers would have caught the CB ship a LONG time ago. Empirical logic.

My point is that the proximity increases the risk since one would assume that there wouldn't be all that many objects in space that are both visible, and don't show up on radar. If Ptolemaios did get spotted, one would imagine that it'd draw a fair bit of attention.

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

My point is that the proximity increases the risk since one would assume that there wouldn't be all that many objects in space that are both visible, and don't show up on radar. If Ptolemaios did get spotted, one would imagine that it'd draw a fair bit of attention.

I'm afraid I don't get this; by the very scale of size, visual scans aren't the best way to find something in space. Especially like the Ptolemy, which is TINY compared to the orbital ring and what not. Likewise, space is so vast (and so full of debris) that radar isn't going to pick up everything, or even most things, especially with the orbital ring screwing up things as they have. So the "I can see it but can't detect it" idea seems a bit off, when you would only know that you couldn't detect it if you deliberately looked in that direction with intent to detect it, rather than looking at where the radar points you to (which is what would be more feasible).

Besides, there was no indication that the Ptolemy was inside visual range of the HRL tower at any point, only that it was somewhere "close." Close could mean anything from10 miles to 1000 miles, we really don't know. All that was important was that it made the journey from the tower to the Ptolemy shorther than it would have been.

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver

Your welcome. I think i still love Felt more than Rei. Because Rei would rather hang around with a swine like Shinji than a cool bastard like Lockon.

Now that's getting ridiculous .

@Endless_Twilight: Don't know, but I have a different feeling when I see Rei compare to when I see Felt. Felt has "not interested in anything except work" attitude, while Rei is more like cyborg type, doing her work is her only life's meaning. Hope you understand what I mean.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by The Small One

BTW, what is the difference between "Ptolemy" and "Ptolemaios"?
The used both words in the episode and I didn't really get the difference. I thought the ship was called "Ptolemaios", but what is "Ptolemy" then?

It's a nickname. Much like you'd more often call someone named "Gwendolyn" as "Gwen" for example, Ptolemy is the crew's nickname for the Ptolemaios. It's even mentioned in the official profile for the ship.

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

It's a nickname. Much like you'd more often call someone named "Gwendolyn" as "Gwen" for example, Ptolemy is the crew's nickname for the Ptolemaios. It's even mentioned in the official profile for the ship.

It's also much, MUCH easier to spell, trust me.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Younger

I'm afraid I don't get this; by the very scale of size, visual scans aren't the best way to find something in space. Especially like the Ptolemy, which is TINY compared to the orbital ring and what not.

That's sort of the problem; Ptolemaios would be difficult to detect visually as long as it's far from any observers. By making itself vulnerable while in close proximity to the orbital ring, they're exposing it to more risk than seems prudent.

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Younger

So the "I can see it but can't detect it" idea seems a bit off, when you would only know that you couldn't detect it if you deliberately looked in that direction with intent to detect it, rather than looking at where the radar points you to (which is what would be more feasible).

The power blocs already knew that the Gundams would be next to impossible to detect with radar, so they'd be trying other methods and correlating them with radar anomalies.

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Younger

Besides, there was no indication that the Ptolemy was inside visual range of the HRL tower at any point, only that it was somewhere "close." Close could mean anything from10 miles to 1000 miles, we really don't know.

Based on how quickly Ptolemaios reached the orbital ring despite approaching it at an oblique angle, it probably couldn't have been more than 100km from it. While it wasn't observed during this time, it's not inconceivable for the HRL to have either set up monitoring stations and the like instead of their detection net.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

My point is that the proximity increases the risk since one would assume that there wouldn't be all that many objects in space that are both visible, and don't show up on radar. If Ptolemaios did get spotted, one would imagine that it'd draw a fair bit of attention.

IM going to agree with 4tran on this one. As we all space is vast finding something something is not easy so if one did come into close or a decent proximity to something it would stand out especially if you are actually looking for soemthing. Even taken into accont that there is debris floating you would still investigate quite simply because its there. The best way to avoid something is space or anything for that matter is distance, closing the distance between an object is your best for locating a target hence recon missions. I dont see a problem in how AEU found the Ptolemaios.

[MooMooFarm]

Originally Posted by Papaya

Watch Virtue be so fat, his hidden ability is that he's actually hiding GN04 inside him :P

GN04: The Ov2 come on like, he's the only other guy with purple hair. Fat let's out another fat!

Someone mentioned Hallelujah killing the Colonel... All I have to say to that is LOL. Hallelujah is not man enough to kill Sergei. A man such as the col who doesn't wear a space suit during missions only dies when and if he wants to.

He's coolness is detracted by the stupid kid he has to babysit.

What's up with the Gundam Meisters and duality? First it's Tieria with male and female appearance, and then Allelujah has split personality, and now Lockon has an identical twin? What's next? Setsuna has a clone?

You are expecting a lot from a series that pretty much copies Gundam Wing. Lol.

i sure hope that virtue loses the bulky armor for a more agile form.

So you want a subway transformer? T_T fat is bad enough, but losing fat is also strange like hell. Man, Tiera must be screwed up. Wears his mothers clothing and his dad is Jared?

Wow, the first episode where both sides use real tactics, and nothing lame and retarded. First episode worth of a rating above 7.

It's also the first episode where cannon fodder actually move instead of stand still, don't fire much, and just get mowed down by everyone. Did you see ep8? Exia was slicing suits while the others stood patiently like retards. I don't even think one moved. What kinda ghetto suits are we talking about here? Even Zakus were nowhere NEAR this ghetto.

There have been battle tactics already for both sides, it's just that Celestial beings had both better preparation and vastly superior equipment. In almost all scenarios they have used to elements of surprise, position and teamwork to overwhelm the opposition.

Half the mobile suits that aren't gundams can't even spin their head 20 degrees left or right before dieing. I don't know about you, but it seems to me this is a new low for how ghetto cannon fodder can go. Maybe it's to setup more room to let grunts upgrade while not pushing the gundams to go KIRA YAMATO INVINCIBLE style. But at the moment, it's just damn slow.

The best moment to date was ep8 with Sarges vs Setsuna. That was decent speed, maybe too fast for grunts, but that fight was actually satisfying. I'm not saying the grunts need to be like this, but frigging at least make the Gundams move faster during the farm fest. Like, do you notice HOW SLOW Exia moves vs grunts? It's like, turn-based RPG slow. The only thing that makes him look fast is how Setsuna makes Exia move in the most exaggerated manner. Cool moves? Yes. Slower then Gai in the new Naruto vs himself compared to Rock Lee vs Gaara? PRETTY CLOSE.

That guy has already a great life, he has an awesome cute girlfriend,good education and a unstale life, hes the luckiest idiot in the world, what kind of luck does he needs to be wished more? Stop making as if hes a sorry bastard.

I agree with this guy. It's just going to be Saji losing either his sister most likely or the gf then he signs up for the army, becomes a ghetto rival or ultimate rival, then loses the gf as a result and she dies and blah blah. Well, that's just one path. Point being, tragedy will strike this idiot.

The ep. was good and obviously it was a breath of fresh air to see the gundam meisters having a difficult time, but at the same time there were things that really irked me. IMO Setsuna's shooting was really bad and I mean really bad like he was some grunt shooting blankly at the middle of the enemy formation.

This supports my stance that Gundam 00 so far is below average in the fighting scenes. Cool gundams + HDTV =/= slack off. But then again, very few animes are good anymore at that. If only they re-made berserk =/

He missed a lot because the adjustment for the Dynames wasn't finished and those Tieren were moving frequently and since Dynames was force to stay in the ship it would be hard to lock on to the enemy.

Aka this guy has no talent and will stay the same skill wise throughout the series. Mwu-la Fraga'd basically.

He had to do it manually too, since there wasn't enough time for Haro to do it. XD But there's no excuse for Setsuna. His aiming was absolutely horrid.

The guy's suit pretty much has SHARPSHOOTER all over it. If the pilot has to rely on the equipment so much, the damn thing spells of SCRUB. First you have Haro pilot the damn thing while you aim a oversized rifle that overkills things when something like kyrios can still go pew pew ACCURATELY without the help of a happy ball, next you Q Q when your leg is not attached? Oh please, if a basketball player had to stand on one leg when he took a penalty shot, would he throw the ball backwards? Cause that's how terrible the shots are atm. And setsuna is crap. Established when everyone besides Patrick almost rocked him. There's like ZERO meisters with SKILL. Cept maybe the grandma err Tiera.

Lockon prove that he still has good accuracy despite the instability.

If the wind was blowing, would you miss 10/10 shots with a pistol in a firing range? T_T frigging counter-strike players have more adaptability then this, and they deal with something more powerful then "oh noez made up space crap". It's called LAG.

I have another question, why didn't Sumeragi switch the postion of the the gundams. To have Kyrios and dynames handle the defense, while virtue and exia take out the enemies or some other combination.

Plot device. Allows showing off from the supporting characters BEFORE you make Setsuna show off. Obviously the main character only gets to show off in 2 situations: become the first guy to power up, or the last guy to power up. DBZ rules man.

Dynames obviously can't go, since he's missing a leg. Exia is Dynames' complement, or he was under repairs too. Kyrios and Dynames complement each other, and were probably not under repair.

By plain logic alone yes. After you think about the possibility of having Dynames and Cartman Gundam just go Pew Pew everything, probably not. Why they decided a pincer strat when all fatty had to do was go Pew Pew and GG is beyond me. You assumed the main forces were somewhere near the cart. Fatty is AOE, he fits perfectly. I mean, if the battalion was hiding behind the cargo ship instead of in it, the giant purple beam of crap would just mow them down anyways and people woulda been like "wow how stupid can u be?"

This episode is good coz the gundams are having a rough time. Its better than GSD.

In some ways, completely! In terms of fighting scenes? Nowhere close.

Dont worry, im not in it for the fights really, just the mechas, cute lolis and cool bishies.

=( don't say that, the more you support that, the more fights get crappier and crappier.

It's a stable firing platform. If he can't shoot them from there, he can't shoot them at all. (Unless he gets at point blank range or something, but what kind of "sniper" needs to walk up to his target before shooting it?)

Also, why did he insist on standing on one leg instead of firing from the prone position? So he could use the leg thing for his inability to hit the broad side of a barn?

Half the time he didn't even shoot. It really makes the whole SNES Duck Hunt gun inside his cockpit look useless.

Either way, it seems the only reason Lockon ever misses is because of plot necessity.

That's how it should be for a guy who's sole uniqueness is that he drives a damn sniper gundam. Sadly, when you are forced to miss, the miss shouldn't be so bad that it rivals Setsuna's air-ball shots. It should be close, or at least reasonable, not OH NOEZ THEY MOVED SO I CANT TILT MY GUN UP OR TO THE SIDE N SHOOT.

Now I know why Lockon carries Haro around. It's a loli magnet.

There's more attention to Loli in this thread then there is gundam. This is sad.

I dun think Felt is like Rei at all, i think shes more serious about her job, stronger and she keeps things to herself.

As someone who hasn't even watched Evagelion, even I know what Rei kinda means in terms of sterotype. It means quiet girl with very lack of facial features. The opposite are the types that go >.< :< :> :3 > > > :| and stuff like that. But even as annoying as the latter is, it's more accepted then the former. Witch Hunter Robin with english dubs was the pinnacle of being Rei'd.

Anything otherwise perceived is pretty much personal. Quiet + Same face 80% of the time = Rei

=D This show still isn't as bad as you all say it is, since we are all watching it. In fact, I personally think it's not bad. HDTV really makes up for some stupid crap that they should have fixed billions of years ago, but still! I also like the narrator, who also did narrator for Akagi. He has that Discovery channel type voice, making it all officially-wordey and stuff!

If anything, the opening is at least way better then most openings. And by that I only mean how the green petals fly around Exia synchronized with the song.

I still <3 this show =X so don't view this as hate!

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

IM going to agree with 4tran on this one. As we all space is vast finding something something is not easy so if one did come into close or a decent proximity to something it would stand out especially if you are actually looking for soemthing. Even taken into accont that there is debris floating you would still investigate quite simply because its there. The best way to avoid something is space or anything for that matter is distance, closing the distance between an object is your best for locating a target hence recon missions. I dont see a problem in how AEU found the Ptolemaios.

Distance in space is entirely different from distance in anything else. There's no atmosphere to give depth perception, for example, so it really is impossible in space to tell if something is close or far away. It's impossible to draw references of scale in space, so visuals won't tell you if something is huge and distant or close and small. For example, one of the Apollo astronaughts almost walked into a canyon the depth of three Empire State Buildings because the other side looked less than a hundred feet away, rather than closer to a mile or more. You can't look at an object in space and say "that anomaly is at X,Y,Z."

Might it make sense to create a computer program that synthesizes the feed of visual and radar scanners, with any appearance on one and not the other triggering a flag of some sort? It would be an incredibly clumsy system. What do you do about all the things that are big enough to be picked up by sight (meteors passing between a star, small debree deemed too insignificant by the radar to register) but are too small/too far away to be picked up by radar? How would you know that something was having radar cloaking, and not just too far?

Sight-reliant search strategies in space bug me, and they really shouldn't matter to anyone to anyone who wants to be realistic about "stealth" in space in the first place, because stealth in space is bogus. Commercial off the shelf technologies can pick up the heat signatures of the smallest heat sources from the other side of the galaxy, let alone the planet.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Distance in space is entirely different from distance in anything else. There's no atmosphere to give depth perception, for example, so it really is impossible in space to tell if something is close or far away. It's impossible to draw references of scale in space, so visuals won't tell you if something is huge and distant or close and small. For example, one of the Apollo astronaughts almost walked into a canyon the depth of three Empire State Buildings because the other side looked less than a hundred feet away, rather than closer to a mile or more. You can't look at an object in space and say "that anomaly is at X,Y,Z."

Might it make sense to create a computer program that synthesizes the feed of visual and radar scanners, with any appearance on one and not the other triggering a flag of some sort? It would be an incredibly clumsy system. What do you do about all the things that are big enough to be picked up by sight (meteors passing between a star, small debree deemed too insignificant by the radar to register) but are too small/too far away to be picked up by radar? How would you know that something was having radar cloaking, and not just too far?

Sight-reliant search strategies in space bug me, and they really shouldn't matter to anyone to anyone who wants to be realistic about "stealth" in space in the first place, because stealth in space is bogus. Commercial off the shelf technologies can pick up the heat signatures of the smallest heat sources from the other side of the galaxy, let alone the planet.

Oh i agree stealth in space is pointles and completly a waste of time, and only makes it worse when they try to explain it with some lame ass unproven theory that you couldnt even sell to a grade schooler. I was under the impression that they didnt find the ship by sight. Using sight to locate something large or small in space for the reasons you mentioned "No depth perception" I know this something can seem like 2 miles away when its really 2 meters or vice versa.

So let me ask what did you not like about the whole scene?

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Oh i agree stealth in space in pointles and completly a waste of time. I was under the impression that they didnt find the ship by sight. Using sight to locate something large or small in space for the reasons you mentioned "No depth perception.

So let me ask what did you not like about the whole scene?

Oops, I thought you were arguing that visual detection in space was a good thing. My bad.

I have no problem with how they found the Ptolomy. Like 4tran, I was hoping someone would use the GN disruption effect as a means of detection, if in reverse. My difference with 4tran is that (I think) he's arguing that visual detection should be used/should have detected the Ptolomy, but I'm not going to argue about that anymore. Don't know enough about space sciences/physics besides what I've already said. Just my oppinion.