Character Discussion - Kallen

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Wait, so is this after Lelouch has beaten Schneizel? If so, then did Kallen join up with the rest of the BK to Schneizel's side or not? If she did than that wouldn't be very fair to let her get off scott free while the rest have been banished.

The war pretty much happened like it did on the show. So Kallen would have been technically on Schniezel's side.

Yeah it wouldn't be fair for her to get off scott free, but then again it wouldn't be fair for her to become his wife either. She'd be seen as a traitor by the BK anyway.

But you bring up a good point, that is another option, maybe she would bring the punishment on herself and force Lelouch's hand in exiling her.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Well, whatever the case may be I'm sure it would be very difficult process for Lelouch and Kallen. I mean Kalulu could very well happen, but it would take some time.

At least the topic is ontopic.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by yvj

The war pretty much happened like it did on the show. So Kallen would have been technically on Schniezel's side.

You mean kind of like how Ougi, Tamaki, Gino, Anya, and Tohdoh all would've "technically" been on his side

Yeah it wouldn't be fair for her to get off scott free, but then again it wouldn't be fair for her to become his wife either. She'd be seen as a traitor by the BK anyway.

But you bring up a good point, that is another option, maybe she would bring the punishment on herself and force Lelouch's hand in exiling her.

Well here's something else to think about: just imagine how the rest of the world would react to it. Not only would Lelouch be granting this one specific pardon to a criminal against the emperor, but also making her his wife/consort. His approval ratings would plummet faster than George Bush's.

At least the topic is ontopic.

Huh?

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

You mean kind of like how Ougi, Tamaki, Gino, Anya, and Tohdoh all would've "technically" been on his side

Well from what we saw the BK were not that far from embracing Schniezel. More doubt is cast on Kaguya, Xianze and possibly Todou in the end. Kallen's actions for all intents and purposes did not seem to be of a person who was taken in by Schniezel.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Well here's something else to think about: just imagine how the rest of the world would react to it. Not only would Lelouch be granting this one specific pardon to a criminal against the emperor, but also making her his wife/consort. His approval ratings would plummet faster than George Bush's.

Who is going to look at him twice?

IMO people would be stunned he isn't staking heads outside of the palace.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Huh?

That was a shot at the powers that be.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by yvj

Well from what we saw the BK were not that far from embracing Schniezel. More doubt is cast on Kaguya, Xianze and possibly Todou in the end. Kallen's actions for all intents and purposes did not seem to be of a person who was taken in by Schniezel.

You mean aside from the fact that she was actively fighting against Lelouch and took out his Knight of Zero? How loyal she was to Schneizel is irrelevant. Point is, she was loyal enough to fight in his army and actively opposed Lelouch's reign.

Who is going to look at him twice?

IMO people would be stunned he isn't staking heads outside of the palace.

Yeah, but then he WOULD be an evil emperor. Which is what he's NOT trying to be (in this scenario)

That was a shot at the powers that be.

Oh.

Between you and me, you may wanna play it cool.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

You mean aside from the fact that she was actively fighting against Lelouch and took out his Knight of Zero? How loyal she was to Schneizel is irrelevant. Point is, she was loyal enough to fight in his army and actively opposed Lelouch's reign.

Yeah I'm not arguing against the point of she was fighting against Lelouch. She tried her hardest to kill him.

But it's similar to Ivan Drago at the end of Rocky 4. When he was no longer fighting for the soviets but for himself and what he believed in. If I recall correctly Kallen jumped out of formation from the army and ignored orders as soon as she could.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Yeah, but then he WOULD be an evil emperor. Which is what he's NOT trying to be (in this scenario)

My point is when you're emperor of the entire world. Good or bad. Who you marry or get along with privately won't be bashed on TMZ. IMO his marriage wouldn't be an issue in the long run of his reign. If people were going to rebel for a reason it wouldn't be because of Lelouch's wife.

But for the sake of the argument. There might be a scandal that Lelouch would have to maneuver around. That actually would make things more interesting. Because if he can't get anyone to accept Kallen how will he get his plans of change across.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Oh.

Between you and me, you may wanna play it cool.

I stand before you as yvj and no other.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by yvj

Yeah I'm not arguing against the point of she was fighting against Lelouch. She tried her hardest to kill him.

But it's similar to Ivan Drago at the end of Rocky 4. When he was no longer fighting for the soviets but for himself and what he believed in. If I recall correctly Kallen jumped out of formation from the army and ignored orders as soon as she could.

Doesn't change the fact she was openly opposing Lelouch and that most of the world would recognize her as an enemy to Britannia. For her to get off scott free and be made the wife of the emperor would be kind of uh...WTF.

My point is when you're emperor of the entire world. Good or bad. Who you marry or get along with privately won't be bashed on TMZ. IMO his marriage wouldn't be an issue in the long run of his reign. If people were going to rebel for a reason it wouldn't be because of Lelouch's wife.

But for the sake of the argument. There might be a scandal that Lelouch would have to maneuver around. That actually would make things more interesting. Because if he can't get anyone to accept Kallen how will he get his plans of change across.

I think you underestimate exactly how pissed off people would be if this happened. I mean, this would be like if George Bush or Barack Obama married one of Saddam Hussein's daughters. There would be riots in the streets. Not very good for peace and stability. I mean, I guess it could happen under certain circumstances, but it would be quite tricky. In the words of Ricky Ricardo:

"Lelouch, you got alotta 'splainin to do."

I stand before you as yvj and no other.

Fair enough. Just some humble advice.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Doesn't change the fact she was openly opposing Lelouch and that most of the world would recognize her as an enemy to Britannia. For her to get off scott free and be made the wife of the emperor would be kind of uh...WTF.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

I think you underestimate exactly how pissed off people would be if this happened. I mean, this would be like if George Bush or Barack Obama married one of Saddam Hussein's daughters. There would be riots in the streets. Not very good for peace and stability. I mean, I guess it could happen under certain circumstances, but it would be quite tricky. In the words of Ricky Ricardo:

"Lelouch, you got alotta 'splainin to do."

I don't deny it would appear WTF from outside perspective. A WTF as well from Kallen's perspective when approached with the idea.

However I don't think it would happen to the extremes you say. For one example Charles had 108 different consorts I don't think it would be strange to assume a number of them were upper class women from enemy territories who got conquered. Though granted none of them likely got close to killing him or was anyone's Ace.

Still if there is an uproar, I'll concede to the chances that there will be. I can't see it lasting for a long time while Lelouch is making moves.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Fair enough. Just some humble advice.

I don't mind the kindness.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by yvj

I don't deny it would appear WTF from outside perspective. A WTF as well from Kallen's perspective when approached with the idea.

However I don't think it would happen to the extremes you say. For one example Charles had 108 different consorts I don't think it would be strange to assume a number of them were upper class women from enemy territories who got conquered. Though granted none of them likely got close to killing him or was anyone's Ace.

Still if there is an uproar, I'll concede to the chances that there will be. I can't see it lasting for a long time while Lelouch is making moves.

Indeed. It's one thing to take a wife from a conquered country in order to establish good relations with said country. It's quite another to take someone who actively opposed you and directly tried to kill you as your wife.

As for the social uproar, I can see at least a few major riots breaking out. And hostilities and low morale would certainly continue until they got a damn decent explanation. I'm not saying it would be impossible, I'm just saying easier said than done.

I suppose the people could be fairly easy to convince (but he better have a helluva explanation). As for the BK, I guess you could just say "screw 'em" and let them live with their resentment and exile."

I don't mind the kindness.

Well, I would hope you wouldn't

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Indeed. It's one thing to take a wife from a conquered country in order to establish good relations with said country. It's quite another to take someone who actively opposed you and directly tried to kill you as your wife.

As for the social uproar, I can see at least a few major riots breaking out. And hostilities and low morale would certainly continue until they got a damn decent explanation. I'm not saying it would be impossible, I'm just saying easier said than done.

I suppose the people could be fairly easy to convince (but he better have a helluva explanation). As for the BK, I guess you could just say "screw 'em" and let them live with their resentment and exile."

Admittedly it sounds crazy as hell the more I think about it. But I like the situation because it is off the wall.

I still disagree to the level of outrage among the people overall. But your point is taken. It would be interesting to see how Lelouch would work this angle.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by yvj

Admittedly it sounds crazy as hell the more I think about it. But I like the situation because it is off the wall.

I still disagree to the level of outrage among the people overall. But your point is taken. It would be interesting to see how Lelouch would work this angle.

Well, I'll concede that it possibly could happen without any riots breaking out, but a lot of people would still be majorly pissed. Particularly Britannian loyalists and those who suffered at the hands of the Black Knights. As I said, "lotta 'splainin' to do."

But it is certianly "off the wall" as you say. And I guess that's one way you could describe Code Geass.

[Lolipopo]

Welcome Back Yvj !

And to answer to the whole question, we already have the answer in the anime. Kallen came in Turn 22 with the will to be with him despite everything; BK, Whatever... ;She just wanted to see if her feelings were two sided, but apart from that, since she already made up her mind in the canon situation which is way worse that this second reality, in a world where Lelouch isn't a tyrant, it's more than sure, she would have stay with him.

And there was thius adorable thing Lie posted

Turn 3 gino calls zero the king of the japanese
Who is the queen?
Kallen Kozuki the Q1 of Zero
But both are fake, just masks
Who does Emperor Lelouch share his final romance moment with?
Kallen Kozuki Q1 of Zero
Again both are just masks
Why do the masks collide so much
Unless the ones wearing them are drawn together?

Below the tsuntsun masks, the little deredere prince had his deredere princess.

That was the cheesy interlude; Anyway she was always a Queen so has Lelouch stay as an emperor, Empress Kallen here we go (I remember back when we were waiting for Turn 22, all those speculations XD
"He is going to ask her to be his empress !"
"He is going to use Excalibur and kill her !"
"They are going to make out in his room !"
"He is going to...."
"They are going to be interrupted !"
That was good fun :P)

...That is funny. Finally, in this alternative version, the future of Kalulu would have been on Kallen's shoulders and not on Lelouch's. (Though someone can wonder if it weren't always the case :P)

[bladeofdarkness]

@ Lolipopo
awesomeness

@yvj and nobody

the battle went the way that it did at the point where lelouch already WAS seen as the enemy of the world
he didnt become hated only AFTER the battle
he was seen as a douche the second he took over the UFN meet by force (by betraying the worlds trust)
and his actions during the battle only make it greater

so the argument is wrong by default
even if he doesnt massacre people afterwards, he's still dictator of the world
just not the single WORST dictator ever

about kallen siding with Schniezel
the claim is also wrong at its base
kallen is part of the official army of the UFN (a militery alliance created for the sole purpose of fighting britannia)
it goes without saying that she would fight against britannia
Schniezel on the other hand is a britannian prince rebelling against his own country
which makes him a traitor (techniclly speaking, gino and anya are also traitors)

kallen isnt fighting as part of Schniezel's army
Schniezel is fighting as part of her's
and there is not real logic in punishing a soldier simply for fighting for his/her country (regardless of what they accomplish during the war)
exiling the OOBK leaders might be acceptable (they ARE the leaders)
but kallen is mearly a soldier, and hence, could be spared from exile

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

@yvj and nobody

the battle went the way that it did at the point where lelouch already WAS seen as the enemy of the world
he didnt become hated only AFTER the battle
he was seen as a douche the second he took over the UFN meet by force (by betraying the worlds trust)
and his actions during the battle only make it greater

so the argument is wrong by default
even if he doesnt massacre people afterwards, he's still dictator of the world
just not the single WORST dictator ever

Well, I think a large part of this assumption is that Lelouch isn't nearly or at all the douche that was in the canon of the show. Lets just assume that the battle takes place with Schneizel's insane plans and everything, the only difference being that Lelouch never took any of the douche moves he made before, during and after the battle.

about kallen siding with Schniezel
the claim is also wrong at its base
kallen is part of the official army of the UFN (a militery alliance created for the sole purpose of fighting britannia)
it goes without saying that she would fight against britannia
Schniezel on the other hand is a britannian prince rebelling against his own country
which makes him a traitor (techniclly speaking, gino and anya are also traitors)

kallen isnt fighting as part of Schniezel's army
Schniezel is fighting as part of her's
and there is not real logic in punishing a soldier simply for fighting for his/her country (regardless of what they accomplish during the war)
exiling the OOBK leaders might be acceptable (they ARE the leaders)
but kallen is mearly a soldier, and hence, could be spared from exile

Whoa wait, are you telling me that Kallen is mearly just a soldier of the UNF and was not a member of the OOBK during the final battle? You're gonna have to provide me with some serious f***ing citation before I buy that.

C'mon, "mearly a soldier" my ass. Lelouch certainly did deem it fit to put her on the execution platform among all the others in the final episode.

[Rising Dragon]

I was under the impression the Black Knights were the soldiers of the UNF.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I was under the impression the Black Knights were the soldiers of the UNF.

exactly
the UFN nations gave up the right for an individual army and united it all under the OOBK as the UFN standard army
which means that kallen was fighting on as part of the UFN army, and opposing britannia because it had just taken the UFN leaders hostage and conquered japan

Schniezel on the other hand was a rebel britannian prince who allied himself with the OOBK against lelouch

and it makes sense for lelouch to put the pilot who almost killed him and "killed" his chosen knight on the execution platform

[Grey Dawn]

Remember, in the CG world, an excessively competent pilot is often given commands, positions, exceptions, and honors they would not get in real life. The KoR, despite being merely pilots, were given commands of entire theatres of wars. At the least from a Britannian point of view, its a very prestigous position.

[bladeofdarkness]

true
and kallen's position as zero's bodyguard/knight and commander of his honor guard (Zero squad) makes her analogous to gilford or pre-KoR suzaku in terms of her role

[Bonzo]

I'm making the last page of kalulu marriage, stay tuned.

[Bonzo]

The event a lot of people waited:

Finally Kallen finded the real happiness, her heart is full:

http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...rn26.4enga.jpg
http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...rn26.4engb.jpg
http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...rn26.4engc.jpg
http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...rn26.4engd.jpg
http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...rn26.4enge.jpg
http://sabrinaonline.altervista.org/...rn26.4engf.jpg

Good reading, and write comments this time

[bladeofdarkness]

looks really nice bonzo