AnimeSuki Forums

ak4allz · 2012-09-30, 05:28

I'm waiting for Kirito to blast off the Skull Reaper with his dual-blade and Heathcliff with his holy sword. Wait, does Asuna has any flagship skill/move like Kirito does? It will be an awesome scene if both of them strike with their faithful and most realiable skill to inflict max damage...

The soundtrack/BGM is really enticing during the last 2 minutes of the battle. Woaa

ronelm2000 · 2012-09-30, 06:04

She has the move she used to kill the boss at the lungfish monster. lolz.

n120cky · 2012-09-30, 06:18

With this epic cliffhanger, I do hope they do flashback episode next

.

I hope Kirito use his dual wielder combo move again.

Kazu-kun · 2012-09-30, 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by n120cky

I hope Kirito use his dual wielder combo move again.

I doubt he can use that against the Reaper. I think that move leaves him too defenseless (remember he took damage from the 74th boss to the point he almost died). Against a OHKO monster, that would pretty much equal suicide.

n120cky · 2012-09-30, 08:00

That's mean Kirito dual sword prety much useless now . . ., making him equal to other player without dual wielder skill.

**Klashikari** · 2012-09-30, 08:04

No, actually he has the luxury to combine offense and defense: Dual Wield parry is vastly improved compared to single weapon one (as proved with Geam Eyes battle). If it wasn't for his dual wielding, he would have been killed on the spot. likewise, both Asuna and Kirito wouldn't be able to repell one of the scythe if both were single sword user.
So far only Heathcliff has been shown as being able to block Skull Reaper attacks with a shield, and that's probably due to his unique skill, so Kirito and Asuna parry is already a feat.
Speaking of which, Heathcliff's expression during the first block was sort of weird, so I suspect he has to commit seriously this time, which might lead to a penalty perhaps? His defense ability that seems to blend both huge defense and timed dodge is a tad too broken to be available without any penalty, moreso if he really never went below 50% hp.

ronelm2000 · 2012-09-30, 08:11

However, one thing Kirito cannot do is attack and defend at the same time, something probably a duo could only do. A good tactic is to let Asuna use his powerful thrust skill on the Skullreaper, then have Kirito use his powerful skill on the body, while the tankers defend the front and back of the body...

**Klashikari** · 2012-09-30, 08:15

Considering what kirito said and what they were doing, that's not possible: only Heathcliff and Asuna/Kirito can deal with the scythes, so they cannot alternate offense and defense: they just go all out offense for the sake of defense, in order to shut down one of the scythe.
In fact, Asuna is obviously attacking and forced to pinpoint her thrust on the impact point to relieve Kirito's burden, since a rapier cannot parry efficiently to begin with, let alone against such heavy curved blade.

Kazu-kun · 2012-09-30, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by n120cky

That's mean Kirito dual sword prety much useless now . . ., making him equal to other player without dual wielder skill.

No because two swords means he has stronger defense and stronger attack. He still can't attack and defense at the same time, as he normally would, and he can't use his combo skill, but dual wilding still gives him an advantage.

That's why he's combining his defense and attack with Asuna too. Two swords might be better than one, but three swords are better than two.

Btw, if I'm not mistaken Kirito and Asuna's combined defense is a skill from their married status, right? I know I read that somewhere...

Somnus · 2012-09-30, 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

No because two swords means he has stronger defense and stronger attack. He still can't attack and defense at the same time, as he normally would, and he can't use his combo skill, but dual wilding still gives him an advantage.

That's why he's combining his defense and attack with Asuna too. Two swords might be better than one, but three swords are better than two.

Btw, if I'm not mistaken Kirito and Asuna's combined defense is a skill from their married status, right? I know I read that somewhere...

Nah, it's just an instance of them working so well together they don't need to speak, resulting in impeccable timing.

EDIT: Also, after watching it multiple times now. I'm impressed that every member of that KoB council actually showed up for duty instead of sending in cannon fodder like we usually see.

Kazu-kun · 2012-09-30, 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somnus

Nah, it's just an instance of them working so well together they don't need to speak, resulting in impeccable timing.

I'm not really talking about timing but defense strength.

Anyway, are you sure? When they used that combined defense against the Reaper guarding the GM console in episode 12,

Spoiler for just to be safe:

KyriaL · 2012-09-30, 08:49

Facing an unknown, not knowing its capabilities and patterns is extremely risky, even for any experienced person/group. And in the heat of the moment, well-planned formations will be in disarray once panic steps in. If that boss had extra scythes, chance are they would be goners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I'm not really talking about timing but defense strength.

Anyway, are you sure? When they used that combined defense against the Reaper guarding the GM console in episode 12,

Spoiler for just to be safe:

If I'm not mistaken, marriage will cause only their inventory to be shared, do correct me if I'm wrong though.

~Yami~ · 2012-09-30, 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyriaL

Facing an unknown, not knowing its capabilities and patterns is extremely risky, even for any experienced person/group. And in the heat of the moment, well-planned formations will be in disarray once panic steps in. If that boss had extra scythes, chance are they would be goners.

If I'm not mistaken, marriage will cause only their inventory to be shared, do correct me if I'm wrong though.

indeed.... I hope all of us remember that boss' attack pattern might change when only one health bar left

I really hope this boss fight will not be ended fast....

I do remember that KoB's should be the one who defend the group... but why only Heathcliff there?? where's that 4 tall bodyguards??

aohige · 2012-09-30, 09:22

About the one-hit kill being OP.... well, not really.
In normal MMO raids, bosses commonly have moves that will kill any non-tanks in a single hit, and even mechanics to instantly kill a tank.

You basically have to preserve your defensive cooldowns to use it against those attack phases.
You miss the timing, and the tank dies, usually resulting in the wipe of the raid team.

As a raid MT in Cataclysm in our raid team, keeping me and the team alive by rotating CDs was basically my everyday life.

SAO is simply made extremely harder by being on hardcore mode with only one chance, and boss strategies being unknown.

In normal MMOs, the top guilds will repeatdly wipe on the raid boss as soon as the game/patch/expansion comes out, figuring out the strategies and patterns, and pass on the information to us, the more casual raiding guilds/players.

Kafriel · 2012-09-30, 09:26

Bosses with 1HKO skills are usually countered with heavy CC (Crowd control, like sleep, stun, paralysis or non-stop flinching due to a large amount of hits per second), but in this case...just hope they can tear it from limb to limb with Klein's katana. Skull reaper's stupidly large for a melee skirmish and that attack's range was just as ridiculous. Really looking forward to the next episode!

Judging by its title, it may be the end of the SAO world, or the end for one of the characters...so many death flags this week.

aohige · 2012-09-30, 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Bosses with 1HKO skills are usually countered with heavy CC (Crowd control, like sleep, stun, paralysis or non-stop flinching due to a large amount of hits per second), but in this case...just hope they can tear it from limb to limb with Klein's katana. Skull reaper's stupidly large for a melee skirmish and that attack's range was just as ridiculous. Really looking forward to the next episode!

Judging by its title, it may be the end of the SAO world, or the end for one of the characters...so many death flags this week.

No, CCs don't usually work on raid bosses, dude.
They work on some adds, and usually CC-heavy class is assigned to control the group of adds (unless they are tankable by the off-tank)
Even in normal difficulties, tanks have to take the boss aggro before anyone else gets one shotted.

Obviously tanks can take the hit from this boss, and the guys who got 1hko early in the battle were DPS.

They didn't know the spawn point of the boss, and got aggro and died before getting to the appropriate area, basically.
If they had the information, Heathcliff (obviously the MT here) should be in the dropping zone of where the boss lands, and immediately genereate hate and draw aggro. The deaths of the faceless mobs can be chalked up to the team simply not knowing the fight beforehand.

It's a lot like say... Nefarian fight in 4.1 of Cataclysm, where he sweeps down into the area where the raid is fighting Onyxia. One of the two tanks have to immediately grab aggro and drag him to the right area, while the others stay the hell put.

Deltaray · 2012-09-30, 09:43

There are some aggro skills in SAO but it seems that bosses here don't really care about those that much. it might work for few moments before it switches again.

aohige · 2012-09-30, 09:46

The fact that it goes after Heathcliff, who is mainly defensive character, suggests there's clearly a way to draw his aggro other than "hitting hard".

In a situation where a boss has the habit of clearing threat, usually you use more than one tank and rotate getting its aggro.
In SAO's case, Heathcliff and the newlyweds (who also happens to be the two top DPS) obviously fit the bill.

Metaneo · 2012-09-30, 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quadratic

Regarding this "fairness" point started by relentlessflame, wasn't this a light jab at my "analysis" in the previous episode thread? I don't recall it being brought up again until I did, but I'm not offended by this jab since I did say I stretched the hell out of it.
Another purely unintended theme, and I'm ok with that.

Though, if we humor ourselves with continuing the "fairness" theme (which I again should emphasize is unintended), I'd say them (somewhat) circumventing the intended gameplay by overleveling was the unfair part, and the system upscaled the boss to restore "fairness". Gotta think of those poor game designers who wanted to give them a challenge (of course, the game probably wasn't designed with a real-life death mechanic involved).

Heck, you can continue stretching the "fairness" theme to Kirito's combat ability if you want to (for laughs):
Cardinal noticed Kirito solely using his right hand in combat.
Cardinal thought that was unfair to the left hand.
Cardinal grants him dual-wielding skill.
That's only fair, right?
(In before novel spoilers, if any, regarding this joke above)

Definitely enjoyed this episode more than the previous few episodes, though for a minute, I thought the show was gonna pull a recap episode when Asuna starting explaining their past (thank god it didn't).

A question for other anime-only viewers, we haven't seen enough of the boss so far that implied it couldn't be beaten by themselves (I think the HP bar did go down a bit), but would you laugh or cry if they beat this boss via Yui (again)?
I'd say that's more unfair, but I'd still laugh my ass off if it happened.

There was no "light jab" at you, I brought up "fairness" in my post, and I have no idea what you posted in the last episode thread, relentless was just responding to my post.

I dont think Cardinal is doing anything about the players being overleveled, if it was I think almost every boss would be a lot harder then they were, after the fight with The Gleam Eyes in Ep 9, Kirito said they hadnt had a death fighting a boss since the 67th floor, and even Heathcliff said that boss was difficult. So basically from floor 68-73, 6 bosses were cleared with no deaths.

And Kirito's gaining of Dual wielding probably has something to do with is playstyle, he said if he knew how to unlock it he'd have spread the info already on how to do so. So there's probably some method on how to do it. Heathcliff mentioned his reaction time is impressive so that could have something to do with it.

Raviel · 2012-09-30, 09:55

Skull Reaper reminds me of some bosses in an MMO I'm playing right now (Dragon Nest if anyone here knows about it), while the tank(s) do have aggro it doesn't really mean the DPS are free to keep on hitting because either the boss's attacks have huge AoE or they have some relatively lethal attacks to defend their sides and back.

As someone who has played full/semi-support classes I would actually like this mechanic because it ensures people don't get lazy and come running for a heal every 10 seconds.

In game with SAO's rules though.........well I think everyone gets my point.

View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 13
10 out of 10: Near Perfect...	69	46.31%
9 out of 10 : Excellent...	48	32.21%
8 out of 10 : Very Good...	20	13.42%
7 out of 10 : Good...	7	4.70%
6 out of 10 : Average...	1	0.67%
5 out of 10 : Below Average...	2	1.34%
4 out of 10 : Poor...	1	0.67%
3 out of 10 : Bad...	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad...	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Torturous...	1	0.67%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

2012-09-30, 05:28	Link #121
ak4allz NightlyArt Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Malaysia Age: 29	I'm waiting for Kirito to blast off the Skull Reaper with his dual-blade and Heathcliff with his holy sword. Wait, does Asuna has any flagship skill/move like Kirito does? It will be an awesome scene if both of them strike with their faithful and most realiable skill to inflict max damage... The soundtrack/BGM is really enticing during the last 2 minutes of the battle. Woaa __________________

2012-09-30, 08:04	Link #126
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	No, actually he has the luxury to combine offense and defense: Dual Wield parry is vastly improved compared to single weapon one (as proved with Geam Eyes battle). If it wasn't for his dual wielding, he would have been killed on the spot. likewise, both Asuna and Kirito wouldn't be able to repell one of the scythe if both were single sword user. So far only Heathcliff has been shown as being able to block Skull Reaper attacks with a shield, and that's probably due to his unique skill, so Kirito and Asuna parry is already a feat. Speaking of which, Heathcliff's expression during the first block was sort of weird, so I suspect he has to commit seriously this time, which might lead to a penalty perhaps? His defense ability that seems to blend both huge defense and timed dodge is a tad too broken to be available without any penalty, moreso if he really never went below 50% hp. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2012-09-30, 08:15	Link #128
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	Considering what kirito said and what they were doing, that's not possible: only Heathcliff and Asuna/Kirito can deal with the scythes, so they cannot alternate offense and defense: they just go all out offense for the sake of defense, in order to shut down one of the scythe. In fact, Asuna is obviously attacking and forced to pinpoint her thrust on the impact point to relieve Kirito's burden, since a rapier cannot parry efficiently to begin with, let alone against such heavy curved blade. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2012-09-30, 09:22	Link #134
aohige ( ಠ_ಠ) Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep	About the one-hit kill being OP.... well, not really. In normal MMO raids, bosses commonly have moves that will kill any non-tanks in a single hit, and even mechanics to instantly kill a tank. You basically have to preserve your defensive cooldowns to use it against those attack phases. You miss the timing, and the tank dies, usually resulting in the wipe of the raid team. As a raid MT in Cataclysm in our raid team, keeping me and the team alive by rotating CDs was basically my everyday life. SAO is simply made extremely harder by being on hardcore mode with only one chance, and boss strategies being unknown. In normal MMOs, the top guilds will repeatdly wipe on the raid boss as soon as the game/patch/expansion comes out, figuring out the strategies and patterns, and pass on the information to us, the more casual raiding guilds/players. __________________

2012-09-30, 06:18	Link #123
n120cky Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010	With this epic cliffhanger, I do hope they do flashback episode next . I hope Kirito use his dual wielder combo move again.

2012-09-30, 08:00	Link #125
n120cky Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010	That's mean Kirito dual sword prety much useless now . . ., making him equal to other player without dual wielder skill.

2012-09-30, 09:26	Link #135
Kafriel Senior Guest Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Athens (GMT+2) Age: 35	Bosses with 1HKO skills are usually countered with heavy CC (Crowd control, like sleep, stun, paralysis or non-stop flinching due to a large amount of hits per second), but in this case...just hope they can tear it from limb to limb with Klein's katana. Skull reaper's stupidly large for a melee skirmish and that attack's range was just as ridiculous. Really looking forward to the next episode! Judging by its title, it may be the end of the SAO world, or the end for one of the characters...so many death flags this week.

2012-09-30, 09:43	Link #137
Deltaray Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Age: 30	There are some aggro skills in SAO but it seems that bosses here don't really care about those that much. it might work for few moments before it switches again.

2012-09-30, 09:46	Link #138
aohige ( ಠ_ಠ) Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep	The fact that it goes after Heathcliff, who is mainly defensive character, suggests there's clearly a way to draw his aggro other than "hitting hard". In a situation where a boss has the habit of clearing threat, usually you use more than one tank and rotate getting its aggro. In SAO's case, Heathcliff and the newlyweds (who also happens to be the two top DPS) obviously fit the bill. __________________

2012-09-30, 09:55	Link #140
Raviel Senior Member Join Date: May 2012	Skull Reaper reminds me of some bosses in an MMO I'm playing right now (Dragon Nest if anyone here knows about it), while the tank(s) do have aggro it doesn't really mean the DPS are free to keep on hitting because either the boss's attacks have huge AoE or they have some relatively lethal attacks to defend their sides and back. As someone who has played full/semi-support classes I would actually like this mechanic because it ensures people don't get lazy and come running for a heal every 10 seconds. In game with SAO's rules though.........well I think everyone gets my point.