(L) Fullmetal Alchemist Manga Discussion

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

He asked but you are making it out like he asked Ed nicely or something, look at his eye and Ed's Roy is clearly blinded by revenge. The way he asked Ed is more in the line of ordering or commanding him to do so. Also the line that is boded is really ironic. (...)

No I'm not making it out like he asked nicely. I've written only that he asked, nothing more. He could have burned Envy without Ed's permission so clearly to me he's not blinded by revenge (because if he were he wouldn't ask).

(...) he wants to kill Envy because of what he did in Ishbal and Roy fighting Envy, Scars, and Scar imply this? (...)

I didn't write this. What I wrote is: for the same reasons he tried to kill Lust, Scar and Gluttony he would kill Envy even if he didn't know he was the one that killed his friend. Revenge was his main motivation for it but only main. I doubt he was that cold of a person he wouldn't care about other people killed by Envy or about her being potential danger. Anger doesn't work that way that you suddenly forget about everything and focus only on the biggest source of revenge, maybe you've never experienced such emotion. So you can't know what Mustang is thinking. Knowing him he wouldn't forget about Envy's other evil deeds. Although after reading recent chapter it looks like Riza disagrees with me and even though she shouldn't know what Roy is thinking it may be that these are Arakawa's words (i.e. she really reads in his mind, that's what I meant by "arakawa's words"). Well, I for one am not convinced by it, it's too naive way of thinking IMO. 95th chapter disappointed me a bit mainly because of how Envy's case was resolved. Mustang could have killed Envy and it shouldn't influence him one bit but because it's manga for kids we've got to have moral: "revenge is bad and you can't kill the bad guys even if they deserve it. Just wait until someone else kills him for you or they kill themselves".

[tzia_n]

Mustang VS Envy wasn't as good as Mustang VS Lust

Al and the gang VS Pride and Kimblee was better IMO

[Sannom]

Mustang VS Envy wasn't as good as Mustang VS Lust

I never liked Mustang's fight anyways, not epic enough, it's too much one-sided, either on Roy's side or on his foe's side

Man, the Armstrong fights in the last three chapter were much more epic and enjoyable to look

[Umaibo]

I actually always like Mustang's fights. "Mustang vs. Lust" and "Mustang vs. artificial soldier" were awesome. It is so cool how he burns through everything. That said, I love all the fights in the FMA manga.

With Envy taken care of, the main team will head towards Father's chamber. I can't wait for what is going to happen next. Sloth should almost be running out of lives. I can't wait to see what the Armstrong duo will do next. And now, the Briggs and housewife is inside the HQ. Ahhhh. I can't wait!!!!!

[Sannom]

Talking about Sloth, don't you think he's suddenly softer??? I don't think Armstrong's spikes should have pierced him like that. The time before that, it was because Akex got him at full speed and he seemed to be much more vulnerable in that state., but now it just looks like Arakawa wants Armstrong to show off!

I loved Scar's lines in that chapter, what he said to Mustang was absolutely mean!

[Umaibo]

Originally Posted by Sannom

Talking about Sloth, don't you think he's suddenly softer??? I don't think Armstrong's spikes should have pierced him like that.

He cut up Sloth body with the spiked knuckles first, then he stabbed those wounds with the ground spikes. It is the same logic as page 25 of chapter 92. Only the skin is tough. Once you can cut it open, you can damage the interior as much as you like.

[Sannom]

*Facepalm* Yeah, you're right, I didn't think about that.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Gooral

No I'm not making it out like he asked nicely. I've written only that he asked, nothing more. He could have burned Envy without Ed's permission so clearly to me he's not blinded by revenge (because if he were he wouldn't ask).

Ok that just made absolutely no sense, you are saying Roy didn't burn him because he wasn't blinded by his anger? First of all the writer did that to create dramatic effect and cliffhanger for the next chapter. Second Roy is blinded by his anger look at his eye and his actions. The author didn't draw the eye like that by accident it was to show his anger, even against Lust he didn't show this type of anger. And look at what he says in this chapter he wanted to kill him humiliatingly unlike Lust.

Originally Posted by Gooral

I didn't write this. What I wrote is: for the same reasons he tried to kill Lust, Scar and Gluttony he would kill Envy even if he didn't know he was the one that killed his friend. Revenge was his main motivation for it but only main. I doubt he was that cold of a person he wouldn't care about other people killed by Envy or about her being potential danger.

So you finally realized that he attacked Envy because of his anger. And what you stated is so obvious is that it is unnecessary to point out, of course Roy would attack his enemy, if he didn't who would he attack, his friends? And trust me Roy is not that self righteous, he knows that Envy killed many people but he doesn't care about them because he doesn't know them. If a there was a mudrder who killed tens of people you wouldn't feel angry or really care if nobody you knew was invovled. Same with Roy he doesn't care what Envy did besides murdering Hughes.
Seriously if your entire point was that Roy wasn't blinded by his anger because he attacked Envy because he is a potential danger or some would say an enemy, well then no shit Sherlock.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Anger doesn't work that way that you suddenly forget about everything and focus only on the biggest source of revenge, maybe you've never experienced such emotion.

Anger works like that, people do commit murder because of anger even though they know it is wrong.

Originally Posted by Gooral

So you can't know what Mustang is thinking. Knowing him he wouldn't forget about Envy's other evil deeds. Although after reading recent chapter it looks like Riza disagrees with me and even though she shouldn't know what Roy is thinking it may be that these are Arakawa's words (i.e. she really reads in his mind, that's what I meant by "arakawa's words"). Well, I for one am not convinced by it, it's too naive way of thinking IMO. 95th chapter disappointed me a bit mainly because of how Envy's case was resolved. Mustang could have killed Envy and it shouldn't influence him one bit but because it's manga for kids we've got to have moral: "revenge is bad and you can't kill the bad guys even if they deserve it. Just wait until someone else kills him for you or they kill themselves".

First of all FMA is not for kids. Second, if Roy killed Envy he would be basically stooping down to their level and would be no better than Envy. If Roy really did kill him he would be going against his personal belief and would be no better than Wrath.

Originally Posted by Sannom

I never liked Mustang's fight anyways, not epic enough, it's too much one-sided, either on Roy's side or on his foe's side

Man, the Armstrong fights in the last three chapter were much more epic and enjoyable to look

Well I agree with the Armstrong statement, he is really ba. And can't wait Izumi to fight .

[Vicious108]

I don't care for that silly argument, but for the love of crap, stop refering to Envy as a she.

Anyways, I came here to read people's opinions on chapter 95, but I guess most people are still too stuck on 94?

Spoiler for Chapter 95:

Well, Envy is finally gone. With him and Kimblee, that's two of my favorite FMA characters dying in a matter of three chapters, yay. >_>

I can't complain this time though, since unlike Kimblee, Envy got a really good death scene. Sad even, though most will probably disagree there what with him being such an irredeemable monster throughout the entire series.

I kinda wish Arakawa had done a panel with an image of his regular form crying as well. Would've been cool to see, but oh well.

Wonder if it'll leave an impression on Ed, who by the way was awesome at the start. "Bring it on, *****! I'll take you on anytime!" Great stuff.

That second half of the chapter wasn't nearly as interesting, but it was still pretty enjoyable. Suprised to see Izumi cooperating with the military, but I guess she doesn't mind as long as it's the Briggs one.

And another suprise was Arakawa still alluding to Nina after all this time. I guess watching Brotherhood reminded her of how that was one of her best stories, heh.

[Foreshadow]

Armstrong's battle (both of them) was really cool.

Spoiler for 95:

Well it was both good that Envy Committed suicide and bad that he did at the same time. No one got the "honor" so to say, of killing him. But it was a good and bad thing. The part with Hawkeye and Mustang is really cute though !

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by Foreshadow

Armstrong's battle (both of them) was really cool.

Spoiler for 95:

Well it was both good that Envy Committed suicide and bad that he did at the same time. No one got the "honor" so to say, of killing him. But it was a good and bad thing. The part with Hawkeye and Mustang is really cute though !

Spoiler:

Roy already killed Lust, so it's good that he didn't off Envy as well or people would start hating him for being a kill-hog, heh.

Also, this way you can warn your kids about how envy literally leads to suicide.

[Kirarakim]

I absolutely loved 95, but then again I love every chapter without fail.

I see some people complaining about

Spoiler:

Envy's demise

but honestly I feel it fits the character perfectly.

Also the Roy/Riza scenes were just fantastic

Not to mention yay

Spoiler:

Izumi

Oh and now I am finally reading the translation even Ed mentioned how scary Roy's face looked. Also Ed mentioned all the themes I love in this series in this chapter. Picking yourself up when you are beaten and if you can't those close to you will do it for you.

edit: And OMG that Armstrong fight was epic!

[solomon]

Yea, I understand the first point Kirarakim pointed out, but narratively it's well worn and appropriate.

Boy howdy, does Arasawa sensei rock!

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

I see some people complaining about

Spoiler:

Envy's demise

but honestly I feel it fits the character perfectly.

Indeed.

Spoiler for Long:

I guess the reason for some people not being satisfied with it is the fact that Envy's always acted more like "Pride" and now only at the end does he show actual envy.

But to me it's always been there and this just confirms it and makes his character come full circle. If you go and look back now at the way he's always acted, you'll see it all makes sense. He's always enjoyed making and watching humans squirm, and why is that? Because it made him feel superior to them. That's what he desires the most. He hates being called a monster and didn't want people to look at him in his true parasitic form. He says humans are worms, yet his prefered form is a human one. His unique ability of shapeshifting is in itself a form of envy.

And so after being defeated in a battle by a human and seeing humans find the strength to overcome their hatred and weaknesses through their support for one another, he resorts to all he has left and tries once again to be the catalyst for more strife. To take advantage of human weakness and make them fight each other and squirm. But it doesn't work. He sees humans are stronger than that, and stronger than him, and he hates them and envies them for it. The will to overcome their weaknesses even after being broken down and battered, the ability to support one another and help each other back up... that is something Envy will never have. That is the truth that's always haunted him, and his most hated enemy is able to see through to it. At that moment, Envy has been utterly defeated by humans in every sense of the word. He has nothing left. And thus he takes his own life, perhaps to at least avoid the further humiliation of being killed by those he loathes and envies so much.

An extremely fitting death and a perfectly executed one. The panel with repulsive parasitic Envy, with desperate tears in his eyes, taking the Philosopher Stone and thus his own life right out from inside of him is a very powerful one. So ugly and miserable that it's almost beautiful in its own grim, dark and demented way.

Personally I loved it and was barely able to properly follow the rest of the chapter because of how powerful, emotional and intense the first half was. In fact, I wish that had been the end of the chapter... Izumi returning is cool, but it would've left more of an impression had it ended with Envy's death. The transition didn't work very well for me, but oh well.

But yeah, I can't fathom why people would be dissatisfied with his demise. I guess they're just Ed/Roy/Riza/Scar fans who were disappointed that they didn't get the honor and crowning moment of awesome of finishing off an Homunculus. I was glad though, cause that way it felt more like Envy's own moment, and after being such a great and prominent villain for so long, he deserved it. It was the perfect closure for his character. I remember back when Marcoh first beat him and it looked like that would be the end for him... I was extremely disappointed then, but I kept faith in Arakawa-sensei and it's definitely paid off now.

So yeah, R.I.P. Envy. Your evil antics will be missed.

[yezhanquan]

Well, at least he "solved" the problem. Those who are gathered there seriously needs a beer or coffee.

Time for Izumi to work her alchemy. It's been a while.

[surerman]

4 me the most attractive part of this newest chapter is

Spoiler for Scar:

"I want to know how a country lead by a monster in Human Skin will be"

It's hook me hard.

We, Human just like Scar says. When we follow our emotion with out Brain & Heart will turn to be a monster,The most Deadly One in this Galaxy
Since our species come to this planet surface, so much blood and tears shed not only by other creature in very same environment as we are, but also our own species.
We kill each other, dancing in the pool of blood.
Cassie from Animorph novel (K.A. Applegate) once says: "the colour of our world is not Green,but Red, Bloody Red"

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

Ok that just made absolutely no sense, you are saying Roy didn't burn him because he wasn't blinded by his anger?

The statement below is explicit:
He could have burned Envy without Ed's permission so clearly to me he's not blinded by revenge (because if he were he wouldn't ask).
means he wasn't BLINDED by revenge NOT that he wasn't angry! Blinded by something means that someone doesn't think straight at all. I would call him blinded by revenge if he acted like Scar did and didn't mind burning innocent people without giving them a chance to get the hell out of his way. Mustang was perfectly aware of his surroundings, he was methodical, didn't fall for Envy's tricks and watched out so he wouldn't burn anyone else (Ed or other shrimps).

First of all the writer did that to create dramatic effect and cliffhanger for the next chapter. Second Roy is blinded by his anger look at his eye and his actions. The author didn't draw the eye like that by accident it was to show his anger, even against Lust he didn't show this type of anger. And look at what he says in this chapter he wanted to kill him humiliatingly unlike Lust.

This cliffhanger made it obvious that Mustang won't kill Envy (because of the reasons I already mentioned a couple of times), if she wanted Envy to be killed by Mustang she would have done it earlier. Further, I'm looking at Roy and I see no difference than from the time when he was fighting Lust, only he shouts more because everyone is interfering with his actions. When he was fighting Lust he could fry her without problems. And of course Arakawa drew his eyes to show anger Scherlock, thanks for stating the obvious. His eyes are the same, his expression is different because he shouts. Every one of them is disturbing him, I would be additionally annoyed too.

So you finally realized that he attacked Envy because of his anger. And what you stated is so obvious is that it is unnecessary to point out, of course Roy would attack his enemy, if he didn't who would he attack, his friends?

Finally? Can't you read with comprehension? I've written exact same thing in my previous posts starting from here. And from what I see it's not obvious to you he would attack Envy. My point is (I'm shocked I even have to explain such obvious statement to you) he already had plenty of reasons to kill Envy and revenge was ONE OF the reasons. And from your point of view why would he attack Envy? If it didn't attack anyone then he would leave him alone, lol.

And trust me Roy is not that self righteous, he knows that Envy killed many people but he doesn't care about them because he doesn't know them. If a there was a mudrder who killed tens of people you wouldn't feel angry or really care if nobody you knew was invovled. Same with Roy he doesn't care what Envy did besides murdering Hughes.

I won't "trust you". You can think anyway you want, that's your prerogative but you're not alpha and omega and you can't know what Roy is thinking. And I think you've used the wrong word. Self-righteous means piously sure of one's own righteousness and I didn't write that.
But he is righteous. After all he did care about Ishvalans and executed orders in contradiction to his own judgement. Now he wants to be judged for his war crimes after he becomes fuhrer. What's more he wanted to know the secrets of alchemy to PROTECT people. So yes, I think he cares about all people not only the ones closest to him.
And on a side note. You don't know me, so please refrain from writing statements that say otherwise. To me people like this boxer are heroes. Whenever I hear that something like this happens, or when someone is murdered I do care, although not as much as I would have if someone close to me was a victim.

Seriously if your entire point was that Roy wasn't blinded by his anger because he attacked Envy because he is a potential danger or some would say an enemy, well then no shit Sherlock.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Firstly, you can't read with comprehension.
The first time, the same words that you've interpreted now as: "if your entire point was that Roy wasn't blinded by his anger because he attacked Envy because he is a potential danger or some would say an enemy"
you've interpreted: This part just doesn't make sense, he wants to kill Envy because of what he did in Ishbal and Roy fighting Envy, Scars, and Scar imply this?

In both cases you're wrong. In the first statement you're putting into my words that I was writing about him being blinded. I wasn't. I was answering a question that has such obvious answer and it was asked by you Sherlock. Your second statement on the other hand doesn't make ANY sense, you're mentioning Envy (I didn't write he wants to kill Envy because he was fighting Envy, lol) and Scar two times (seriusly, Scars and Scar?), WTF?

You asked:
Where are the implications that he is going after Envy because of what Envy did?

and I answered:

It's simple. He tried to kill Lust, Scar, Gluttony and others because they were a threat. For the same reasons he would kill Envy even if he didn't know he was the one that killed his friend. Revenge is just another reason to do it. And in my previous post I've presented additional arguments to supprt my statement he wasn't blinded by revenge (i.e. he was methodical, etc.). If you have such short memory that you forget about everything immediately, write it down.

The fact is, Envy was a threat, Envy was a MASS MURDERER at that and he deserved to die regardless of what he did to Hughes. If Mustang was willing to kill Gluttony, Scar and Lust without blinking an eye then judging by his previous actions he would have gone after Envy for the same reasons. HERE is this implication. You don't have to be a genius to notice that, do you?

Anger works like that, people do commit murder because of anger even though they know it is wrong.

lol
Again you're stating the obvious ad neglecting my point. I'm writing that anger is and additive emotion (i.e. if a woman was killed it wouldn't make her husband as angry as if she was raped and killed) and you're writing that it blinds people. Get a grip man!

First of all FMA is not for kids. Second, if Roy killed Envy he would be basically stooping down to their level and would be no better than Envy. If Roy really did kill him he would be going against his personal belief and would be no better than Wrath.

Of course it is manga for children. Even by definition, it's shounen after all. There are no elements here that 12 year old teenager wouldn't understand and there are many elements that are primitive (e.g. humour). The plot is very simple and in every volume you can see moral: killing is bad, revenge is bad, work dignifies, maternity is a blessing, trying to oppose laws of nature has consequences etc. etc. which is obvious to anyone with years of experience. The protagonist is a kid that always succeeds and never has to dirty his hands. Even in newest chapter Envy killed himself so that Mustang wouldn't be "consumed by hatred" (which is naive way of thinking if we take into account what he did in Ishval) or anyone else would have to stain their hands in blood.
Of course it doesn't mean it's bad. It has elements that attract older people too but trying to deny that it is manga for children is a naive way of thinking.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Oh snap, it's Izumi! It's on now.

[tzia_n]

I'd rather have Envy remained bitter as he died. Rather than admit that Edward understood him, I think it would be better if he exploded and went on a rant telling Edward like "How the hell do you claim to understand me" and such. But as it is, it is good enough IMO...

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

Oh snap, it's Izumi! It's on now.

Considering Izumi and Olivia are now in the same place and we might even get to see those two fearsome women teaming up, yes it's definitely on now.

Originally Posted by tzia_n

I'd rather have Envy remained bitter as he died. Rather than admit that Edward understood him, I think it would be better if he exploded and went on a rant telling Edward like "How the hell do you claim to understand me" and such. But as it is, it is good enough IMO...

Envy had probably been hiding and holding in that shameful side of his his own life, so he most likely couldn't take it anymore and thus just let it all out before the very end... in a very Envy-ish way of course.