Code Geass Episode 14 Discussion / Poll

[quina]

well.. santa already said everything... so I will step away from that a bit then... since we are not going anywhere... and there aren't really much to see accept the scene..I will try other approach.

There are 2 points to note:
1. Mao is carrying a chess board around.
Mao has been observing Lulu for a couple of episode now, he probably have "read" him about chess sometimes ago. He would need to go out and buy a chess board and plan all this before. Does it really possible that he would never try it before? hmm I don't know.. what do you think?

2. Mao is Chinese.
According to Asuka scan (hmm correct me if I am wrong). Mao is a Chinese, China have different kind of chess. Remember China and Britania in code geass are GREAT GREAT RIVAL. It would be unlikely that a popular game from Britania (which royal family play) will be allow to played there...even if Mao has play chess before, it would be more likely that's its Chinese version...
More over.. hmm may be I should put this into spoiler...

Spoiler:

CC meet and help Mao out since he was 6. She most likely the one who raise him up. Unless CC teach him how to play chess I have no idea how could he learn how to play English version of chess.

There is of course a possibility that he learned it somehow while traveling searching for CC. Somethings CC said in this episode suggested otherwise... "To think that you would be able to escape from other people's heart" gives me a feeling like CC has sealed Mao somewhere before and only recently he is able to break out.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Just one thing...

I don't see the point of believeing everything Mao said. He may or may not be playing chess for the first time, but that is actually not important; what IS important, is that Mao claimed that this was his first chess match.

Remember, Mao does not have an active geass power, but a passive one. In order to affect people's actions, he needed to use words. Thus, to put himself at a psychological advantage, he needs Lelouch to believe himself to be inferior to Mao. "This is my first time playing chess" is just another mindgame, used to unsettle Lulu. It nearly worked too.

Oh, and I agree to some level with Santa Claus concerning Chess. It's a habit of mine to predict (or at least estimate) three or four moves ahead in a game. All it needs for Leouch to lose is to think "Oh dear! If he moves there and there and there, I am dead! I hope he didn't notice..." before Mao would win.

[Anh_Minh]

It's also a habit of mine because I'm a friggin amateur.

A master shouldn't play "hoping the other doesn't notice". He should try to gain small advantages. And those are often too subtle for a novice to recognize as such. And even if Mao can pluck from Lelouch's mind that they are advantages, what's he going to do about it? Lelouch may have half a dozen proper responses to his own moves in his head at any given time, but how would Mao choose between them if he can't understand them?

And even if it was like Lelouch playing against himself (which I find hard to believe could come from mere mind reading), it would be a close game. Not an utter defeat.

[Nvis]

Did Mao tell Shirley about the Geass?
It seemed she got the gist of it. And knew what Lulu was going to do, and screamed "No" just before she got Geass-ed.

She didn't want to be Geass-ed.....poor Shirley.

[quina]

And even if it was like Lelouch playing against himself (which I find hard to believe could come from mere mind reading), it would be a close game. Not an utter defeat.

not really... if your plan is messed up the balanced is lost and if you are playing with yourself balance can never be gained back. It would be a close game if Lulu was trying to play safe the whole game and made no mistake. However he is a gambler type player, he sacrifire smaller pieces to gain something big in a long run. All he need is one victory move. What do you think would happen if Mao happen to read his mind and screw his plan once...worse twice. It would not be a close nor minor defeat game. It would be utter defeat.

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by c^2

As the series goes on, I get the impression that Sunrise is going to drive it into the ground with absurd plot devices. Lancelot was the first of these, and it continues to detract from the show. Such plot devices disrupt the logical flow of events, and make it impossible to contemplate in a rational manner. The development of the plot is made meaningless.

Anyways, the reason I mention this is that Mao's geass leaves me with much the same impression. It is far beyond reading people's minds--it is more like omniscience. It is a similarly absurd element that they have introduced which simply does not fit into the universe that they have created.

Reading peoples minds would be convenient, and would certainly allow you to manipulate people. The fact remains though--it is only a source of information. Just because you know what is on someone's mind does not mean you have the time or ability to react to such knowledge. The chess game was a perfect example; there is no way a novice (even a mind-reading one) could win such a game. At best, it would give an experienced player an advantage.


Though, I really like the show, my hopes are fading; it will probably end up as most other Sunrise shows do. At this point, I am anticipating the remaining episodes of Soukou no Strain far more.

Its not that Mao won just because he read the mind of Lulu. Mao is smart and also if my speculation is correct he was given Geass from a really young age and was also a survivor of war ( watch episode 11 and look closely at the flash backs that C.C had ). I think he actually had a similar history as Lulu with the exception that C.C was the only one he had ( unlike lulu that has had farily easy life with his friends). So maybe this is one of the reasons why Mao is so crazy about C.C.

So overal he has way more experience than Lulu and is probably super smart. So thats how he was able to beat Lulu.

[bond4154]

Continuing the chess argument...

The argument doesn't really stand because. Yes, Mao could've read Lelouch's thoughts and known where NOT to move. I find it unlikely that he, assuming it WAS his first time playing chess, knew exactly WHERE to move the pieces to defeat Lelouch just by reading his surface thoughts. While Mao could easily avoid traps this way, it doesn't necessarily make it so that Mao can turn this into his own advantage and WIN the game.

But I agree, even if it WAS his first time playing and I'm wrong in thinking it WASN'T his first time, it's another Sunrise overdramatic cheapshot. I'm still convinced it wasn't his first time playing chess, though.

On a really random note, though, Chess and Chinese Chess do share some similarities, though. However, since I'm no expert at Chinese Chess (despite knowing how to play it), I can't really say whether Mao could've planned a chess strategy using Chinese Chess... >_>

[seraphon]

mmmmm
I have a theory on the chess matter.
Mao win not because he is smart or of his geass but because the author thougth it would be cool to see lelouch lose in a chess game and that it would make mao look smart.........
At this point, where mao can read peoples mind at ligth speed its no use to guess if mao knew or not how to play chess.I mean, when he says C.C and then "wow , you thougth about 14 possibilities" there was just about 1 second. Personnally I just had time to think "fuck", quite far from the 14 possibilities of lelouch, and mao is terrific too cause he could hear those 14 possibilities and make a sense of them all...... in just one second....
Lets face it, us poor normal people cannot even start to understand such geniuses.

[etothex]

I don't know if he's supersmart, but he definitely has some crazy brain processing power. Remember he commented that LL came up with 14 different possibilities for his identity in an instant. That means he actually sorted through LL's thoughts and counted that quickly.
Against LL at chess, he would have an advantage at being able to read LL's thoughts for a few moves, knowing a few moves ahead means you can effectively counter his attacks, but there is also long term strategy and power shifts that come from unexpected moves, accidents, or overlooked positions, so its not like just because he can see a few moves ahead he'll win. To illustrate my point (yes I think I have one) Mao reads from LL that LL is planning to use his rook to take Mao's bishop. Mao can move the bishop out of harms way then. But perhaps Mao moves the bishop into a position that later allows LL's queen to take it, a situation which only arose because Mao moved the bishop where he did.
He wouldn't be able to avoid that sort of weakness unless he knew quite a bit about chess as well.
It seems he's able to sort through peoples thoughts very quickly. I'm sure he's had a lot of time to practice while going insane from hearing everyone's thoughts non-stop. I like how he used CC's voice ala headphones as a way to focus off incoming thoughts, which likely led to his obsession. Let's see what he wants from her. Maybe to make a new set of voice recordings?

bond and seraph threw some of my thoughts into their posts right before i finished it, I didn't mean to be redundant.

[sevenheaven7]

so shirley won't appear anymore in code geass? the love triangle is ending....

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by sevenheaven7

so shirley won't appear anymore in code geass? the love triangle is ending....

Err... Unless you mean a CC/Kallen/Shirely yuri love triangle, I think there are plenty of other love polygons around the show.

At the very least, the CC/Kallen/Lelouch triangle isn't going anywhere.

[Areguzanda]

Man..I just hate these things...
when someone gets their memory of someone they love erased....
It just makes my heart hurt...
I don't like it...I don't like it at all....

[Anh_Minh]

It's funny since I didn't even vote for Lelouch x Shirley in that romance poll, but now I feel he took the easy way out by geassing her. He should have let her heal naturally and tried harder to work things out with her.

But I guess he couldn't really take the chance. Ah, well. :\

[npal]

Originally Posted by sevenheaven7

so shirley won't appear anymore in code geass? the love triangle is ending....

Are we sure we've seen the last of Shirley? I feel bad for not voting for her in the poll section now . I believe that Shirley is the easy way to learn all limitation of Geass if she remains a part of the story (how long will her memory be like that? Lulu apparently hopes forever. Is it susceptible to being countered somehow? Lulu hopes not, but still...).

[evanx]

I wonder who's the replacement that Flyod is talking about.

CC knows a lot of stuff that she should be telling Lulu.

Lulu looks very sad at the end...

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by npal

Are we sure we've seen the last of Shirley? I feel bad for not voting for her in the poll section now . I believe that Shirley is the easy way to learn all limitation of Geass if she remains a part of the story (how long will her memory be like that? Lulu apparently hopes forever. Is it susceptible to being countered somehow? Lulu hopes not, but still...).

Well, perhaps Shirley needed to exit the stage in order to give more screen-time to the up-and-coming Villetta?

Seriously, you can re-write the episode as if Mao had tried to shoot Lulu only for Shirley to take the fatal injury, and the episode would have ended in practically the same way. At least in this case, Shirley gets to live. We have far more characters than the plot needs right now, and Shirley is turning into the fifth wheel. Sure, under a school-yard romance she would have a place in the story, but that just isn't what Code Geass is about.

Lelouch already have someone to protect, and that someone is his sister. He most certainly haven't got the capacity to watch out for one more person who can't defend herself. I know this sound cruel, but as i say, it's still better than killing her off.

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Well, perhaps Shirley needed to exit the stage in order to give more screen-time to the up-and-coming Villetta?

Seriously, you can re-write the episode as if Mao had tried to shoot Lulu only for Shirley to take the fatal injury, and the episode would have ended in practically the same way. At least in this case, Shirley gets to live. We have far more characters than the plot needs right now, and Shirley is turning into the fifth wheel. Sure, under a school-yard romance she would have a place in the story, but that just isn't what Code Geass is about.

Lelouch already have someone to protect, and that someone is his sister. He most certainly haven't got the capacity to watch out for one more person who can't defend herself. I know this sound cruel, but as i say, it's still better than killing her off.

YOU ARE SO CRUEL, TO EVEN SUGGEST THE IDEA OF Shirly DIEING .

I am just kidding . But some people's favorite character was Shirly ( well it was my second after Lulu of course) and were Hoping a little bit more air time for Shirly. In that multi vote poll, i favored Shirly- Lulu so much, that it was my only choice.

So i am going to still keep my hopes up and wish in future Shirly will come back.

Also i agree with you that we have many other characters in the story, but they arent really main characters. In my personal opinion Code geass is unlike GSD that had so many main characters. The main character would be Lulu of course, because everything revolves around him and every one else eaither are his enemies or his allies. In GSD we had Kira + Athrun + Kagali+ Shin and partly lacus as main characters.

[Green²]

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

YOU ARE SO CRUEL, TO EVEN SUGGEST THE IDEA OF Shirly DIEING .

I am just kidding . But some people's favorite character was Shirly ( well it was my second after Lulu of course) and were Hoping a little bit more air time for Shirly. In that multi vote poll, i favored Shirly- Lulu so much, that it was my only choice.

So i am going to still keep my hopes up and wish in future Shirly will come back.

Also i agree with you that we have many other characters in the story, but they arent really main characters. In my personal opinion Code geass is unlike GSD that had so many main characters. The main character would be Lulu of course, because everything revolves around him and every one else eaither are his enemies or his allies. In GSD we had Kira + Athrun + Kagali+ Shin and partly lacus as main characters.

I really wouldn't be too surprised if Shirly does come back in a later episode. Especially when if the chick she shot gets up and around again and asking questions. And that guy that found her bleeding there, he being probably more interested in who Zero really is and what his true intentions really are. Though they being more likely to investigate Zero, one can't help but to think payback that she'll want against Shirly for the gunshot. Which later to them will be apparent that Shirly lost her memory, and it'll be like: "You too? But that same thing happened to me as well, back when I lost my...!". ...Except for a few missing dots here and there, down the road the crap probably going to hit the fan really quick. And Ougi to likely be thrown in along with it.

[FSNxPhantom]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

What's the matter FSN? You can't seem to distinguish between the Aile pack(Which has 4 wings and is significantly bigger) and the Jet pack(Which the windams uses and actually looks nearly identical)?.
The launch scene is similar but that's about it.



There's been at least 3 people who have piloted Strike if your basing it on that....

Just stating that it looks very similar to the GS intros of the Strike Unit lauching out... LOOKS TOOO SIMILAR of lauch. Thats all I'm stating.

And the chess argument became pretty complicated to keep track with.

[division]

I only hope that the darker Zero/LL we saw in ep 13 was a pained-reaction slash attempt to run away or assign blame for the death of shirley's father on the JLF and that the events with Shirley in this episode maybe instilled more of a sense of regret rather than a desire to "follow the path of carnage". I liked the mix of serious and jovial moments this series has had, and if it just turns into a giant mecha variant of Death Note I'm going to be a bit upset.

On a side note, and this has been bugging me for a while, why wouln't LL just put in the dozen or so geasses and 2 hours worth of effort to find out Suzaku's the Lance pilot and Geass him to his cause? I was hoping back in ep (11?) when Suzaku had his breakdown when faced with his father seemingly shamed by him, that Suzaku might finally have some real anti-empire leanings-- but apparently it had no impact at all.