[Manga] Chapter 349 Discussion

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by El_Frenchie

1. It does seem Shikamaru surpasses Kakashi in IQ.

I agree with that, also Databook circle graph (don't recall its name) has Kakshi Intelligence High, but bellow from Shikamaru, Don't know if these stats can be compared.

4. It seems rather far-fetched that Kakashi can rival a 4th gate activation taijutsu.

Hmmm, Its hard to tell, but sure enough is not far-fetched.

[Goshin]

Originally Posted by El_Frenchie

4. It seems rather far-fetched that Kakashi can rival a 4th gate activation taijutsu.

That's about it, imo.

not really kakashi and gai are suppose to be rivals, that means that they are suppose to be equals. so that mean unless lee surpasses gai at 4 gates kakashi is better.
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Now that i think about it i guess kakashi shouldn't have a better sense of smell then kiba. it is true that kakashi was unable to find zabuza with his smell. but it may because zabuza scent was weakened by the water and only real dogs can smell it.

[SpiRo]

Originally Posted by Goshin

not really kakashi and gai are suppose to be rivals, that means that they are suppose to be equals. so that mean unless lee surpasses gai at 4 gates kakashi is better.
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Now that i think about it i guess kakashi shouldn't have a better sense of smell then kiba. it is true that kakashi was unable to find zabuza with his smell. but it may because zabuza scent was weakened by the water and only real dogs can smell it.

Well Kakashi couldnt smell even his blood on Zabuza .. he used dogs .. and Zabuza was not even far from him .. he standed almost in front of him.

Kiba always had better smell then Kakashi even as genin (i mean he almost strangulate from fart) .. and Shikamaru was always and will aways be smarter then Kakashi ..

I agree ofc that Kakashi used better sharingan then Sasuke in part 1 .. but now it is different story.

And i agree with dede it was only hero worship ..

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by SpiRo

So u cant answear simple question with YES or NO, becouse u know the truth ..

I am not answering with yes or no "Because I do not have the answer". There is no for-sure information that would lead us in either way.

And did u ever saw how Kakashi plan 200 more tactics in head so he can use them if first fail, like Shikamaru can ? No

No. But I know one thing. I haven't seen Shikamaru executing that many steps either. Or I will never see Shikamaru being able to execute that many steps ahead. Or I will never see Shikamaru in the future, in a fight that will let him calculate that many steps ahead.

What do all of that tell to you? Yes, calculating that many steps ahead is good, but can he be able to execute it in a fight? That is the matter, the applicable intelligence in a fight is important. Naruto having 100 times the chakra, doesn't mean he would be able to need or use that many chakra in his fights. And, despite having that chakra, he is still *perceivably* weaker than many people who have 1/40 or 1/50 of that chakra.

Well for me whole manga say otherwise.. if u wanna believe in santa claus becouse your mama told u he exist then ok. I wouldnt argue with u if u just answeared with YES or NO i just wanted to see your opinion without any reference information.

I don't know what manga you are reading, but it is definitely not the one I am reading. The manga I am reading has never said who is better than who for Shikamaru, Kiba, Sasuke vs. Kakashi regarding the application of a few specifically selected areas in their fights. So, for me, it is still unknown.

If you want to believe otherwise, feel free to do so. But, know that it is not a "fact", it may be even much further away from the fact compared to the opposing opinion, and with no fact in your hand, don't try to force your opinion as fact. Hope, I made myself clear.

[xcad]

- shikamaru has high IQ level at 200plus. yes that we all know. we all also know that he can think of 200 battle strategies incase one fails.

kakashi.. we dont know how high his IQ is. it wasnt mentioned. he could be even smarter than shika. who knows right? keep in mind kakashi became jounin at 13 den joined anbu. doesnt his achievements have smthg to do with his intelligence?unless u are convinced that kakashi is just a normal ninja who's anbu entry was based on luck.

even if kakashi never thought of 200 strategies, so far he just thought of one and improvised from there. hassle-free. yes he was impressed with shika's ability to think ahead, who wouldnt? afterall shikamaru is still a chuunin and doesnt have much battle experience as compared to others.

- in the zabuza battle, kakashi wanted to end it fast so that he can restrain naruto. therefore he summoned his dogs to hold zabuza IN PLACE.

- sharingan.. of coz 2 eyes are better than one. but is one pair of 3-tomoe sharingan better than a single mangekyou?

[SpiRo]

@Sazelyt

Ok this is your point no more talking .. but when manga show who is better and who have better smell and better sharingan i will jubilate on this thread like i do on Team Sasuke thread..

Originally Posted by xcad

- shikamaru has high IQ level at 200plus. yes that we all know. we all also know that he can think of 200 battle strategies incase one fails.

kakashi.. we dont know how high his IQ is. it wasnt mentioned. he could be even smarter than shika. who knows right? keep in mind kakashi became jounin at 13 den joined anbu. doesnt his achievements have smthg to do with his intelligence?unless u are convinced that kakashi is just a normal ninja who's anbu entry was based on luck.

even if kakashi never thought of 200 strategies, so far he just thought of one and improvised from there. hassle-free. yes he was impressed with shika's ability to think ahead, who wouldnt? afterall shikamaru is still a chuunin and doesnt have much battle experience as compared to others.

- in the zabuza battle, kakashi wanted to end it fast so that he can restrain naruto. therefore he summoned his dogs to hold zabuza IN PLACE.

- sharingan.. of coz 2 eyes are better than one. but is one pair of 3-tomoe sharingan better than a single mangekyou?

I didnt say that Kakashi is dumb and his becoming jounin with 13 dont mean anything .. becouse if that mean then Gaara is 500+ IQ becouse he is Kazekage..

Kakashi is smart and expirienced but he dont have bigger IQ then Shikamaru. Kakashi is smart and skillfull ninja and thats why he became jounin.

In the Zabuza battle he couldnt smell his blood on Zabuza, thats why he on purpos let his blood so his dogs can smell him and find him .. and if dogs could smell it then he dont have good smell .. Kiba would smell it easy ..

point of sharingan is stupid becouse Naruto didnt see him 3 years .. he was better user when Sasuke was in Konoha ..

It like someone with Glock(pistol) got killed by someone with Luger( pistol made 1898 year) that dont mean that Luger is better gun, it mean user is better ..

EDIT: @ xcad rofl becouse this whole conversation is about it .. i dont compare them, Naruto compared them saying that Kakashi have better smell then Kiba .. im saying that his words was just nonsense becouse he admire Kakashi strength.. I agree that whole this is offtopic thats why i said that to Sazelyt .. no more talking about this from me ..

[xcad]

bigger IQ doesnt necessarily mean smart if u dont use it on a daily basis. and i never said that u called kakashi dumb.

kiba lives with dogs. how can u compare kakashi and kiba?

and i just rewatched the zabuza battle to reconfirm.

i quote exactly from kakashi.

"since i cant track you down with my eyes or ears, i'll just have rely on my sense of smell"

"that's what happens when you cant see in the mist"

"this is a summoning technique used specially for tracking down one's opponents"

"i had purposely spilled some blood onto you while fending of your previous attacks"

"this is to leave my scent on your weapon"

"these are my cute ninja dogs, and their sense of smell far exceeds the range of any other dog"

"you're the one who has fallen into my trap"

there you have it, i exactly quoted from the naruto vcd i have.


and this is way offtopic. i apologise for me participating in the debate.

heh sorry inferno phoenyx.

[Inferno Phoenyx]

Has anyone seen something for 349 yet? Ugh, It's irritating not hearing anything other than who's better- Kakashi or Kiba/Shika/Sasu/Lee.

[Deathwing]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

Page 13, chapter 256...it's NOT a filler

sorry my mistake (it just sounded so cheesy that i assumed it was)

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by SpiRo

@Sazelyt

Ok this is your point no more talking .. but when manga show who is better and who have better smell and better sharingan i will jubilate on this thread like i do on Team Sasuke thread..

What happens in the future does not change anything regarding what we are discussing. We are talking about the manga "right now" based on the information given to us until the current chapter. You know, if Itachi dies in the hands of Sasuke at the end of manga, it wouldn't mean Sasuke is currently stronger than Itachi.

As a final note, the infamous Yellow Flash tried to do something similar to what you are proposing to the newest mod (bringing up the discussion that happened months or years ago as if it was something new), and the ending was a bit funny for the poster who brought up that topic.

[SpiRo]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

What happens in the future does not change anything regarding what we are discussing. We are talking about the manga "right now" based on the information given to us until the current chapter. You know, if Itachi dies in the hands of Sasuke at the end of manga, it wouldn't mean Sasuke is currently stronger than Itachi.

Well that is my opinion right now and that is fact or we wouldnt see so many times someone say how Shikamaru is smart or how Kiba have enormous scent, and we wouldnt saw how Kakashi use dogs for smell tracking ..

As a final note, the infamous Yellow Flash tried to do something similar to what you are proposing to the newest mod (bringing up the discussion that happened months or years ago as if it was something new), and the ending was a bit funny for the poster who brought up that topic.

I guess stupid ppl always make fun of smart ones .. becouse there is more stupid ppl in world then smart ones.. but that Yellow Flash guy is prolly smart and im sad becouse stupid ppl made fun of him .. but what is important is that he was right and he know that, and stupid ppl was wrong and they know that in their mind but they didnt say that they r wrong they made fun of him .. that is pathetic and shame ..

IF it happen that im wrong i will say on this thread that i was wrong, i wont hide, like ppl on Team Sasuke thread hide now ..

[4thandcomming]

While it is interesting to debate who is better. Shouldn't that be a discussion for a new thread labeled "Who is better:blah, blah, or blah?"

What get's to me is that this is suppose to be a spoiler thread and the only spoiler I've found is the same one that's on every other naruto fan site and--it is clearly false or distorted. It's sad that you can only find a true spoiler about once a month.

We're all addicted fans here. That's why we're trying to find the spoiler rather than waiting for the manga or the anime to catch up.

[Deathwing]

yep naruto = crack
you get a little fix and are left begging for more

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by SpiRo

Well that is my opinion right now and that is fact or we wouldnt see so many times someone say how Shikamaru is smart or how Kiba have enormous scent, and we wouldnt saw how Kakashi use dogs for smell tracking ..

I thought Kiba was using his dog for similar reasons. And, I wonder if you have ever wondered why Kakashi used many dogs instead of a single dog, if it would take only a dog's smelling ability to find something?

..but that Yellow Flash guy is prolly smart and im sad becouse stupid ppl made fun of him

Right, right, I wonder, how many people you will be able to find that think the same way as you do. Maybe a few other banned posters...

[SpiRo]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

Right, right, I wonder, how many people you will be able to find that think the same way as you do. Maybe a few other banned posters...

thats why there is many stupid ppl and few smart .. look closely who agreed with me and then u will see their explanation is good also .. banned ppl ? also i said smart ppl r penalized becouse of their gift .. brain

like now i can get banned for this but this is all truth .. u see .. no more talk .. shhh

[Sharingan=Superman]

What's the point in comparing people to one another. Shika could never beat Kakashi in a 1 on 1 battle.....that's way too obvious....neither could Kiba. And a comparison between Kakashi/Sasuke sharingan?. Kakashi could NEVER compare to Sasuke.......umm let's see.......Kakashi has said that Naruto is comparable or some what superior in strength to himself....what if he goes Kyuubi/tail form?. And Sasuke is stronger than Naruto......so......who gives a shit about Sharingan when Sasuke is stronger....more skilled....than Kak. Kakashi is only useful now because he at least HAS the sharingan....and apparently it is of some importance that there are 3 sharingan users.

[yinstro]

The point is whether naruto's ideas are accurate are not haent been shown from the manga in detail. based on what we have seen, it can go either way.

Kakashi is and always was a genius, he was a highly intelligient ninja and a highly skilled one. Intelligience isnt direct, being able to think 100 moves ahead in go, doesnt mean your smarter than a astro physicist, it means your intelligient in a specific way. Kakashi has mastered all elemental jutsu, has the ability to form a useful seal on the curse seal in an emergency, came up with naruto's kage bunshin method in what way can you say shikamru has done anything that surpasses all these things? he beat hidan? after being exposed to him before and luring him into a trap? Hidan hardly seemed to be a man who thought 2 moves ahead. I dont know if based on what we know shika has surpassed kakashi's intelligence

Kiba's sence of smell and kakashi's may be exactly a like, we dont have much info on that. And as soemone said, he used the dogs to trap zabuza so he could execute a chidori without being able to use the sharingan to predict his opponents moves, no matter how good he smells, he cant chidori zabuza if he cant predict his movements thats the weakness of the thrust that is chidori. Also his dogs sense of smell are beyond normal dogs. He was shown as a id using smell to track his opponents, we really have no info on this.

sharingan can be argued either way, and we dont have enough info on sasuke.

The point is there is not enough evidence to say who is better at this point.

as far as the spoiler, bleh! need a lot more info shoudl be a raw out somewhere by now you d think

[Kenu]

Originally Posted by DeDe

Lee probably trains 15 hours a day in just taijutsu.

My poor kawaii Lee.

We have not seen Lee for such a long time. The days of his youth are slowly fading into the sunset.

[SpiRo]

Yep be precautionary when u farting u may kill Kakashi becouse his scent is better then powered 1000 times Kibas .. Imagine his life walking throughout village full of animals ..

[Frenchie]

Kakashi rivalling Gai's taijutsu?

Kakashi might be up to the challenge by predicting and dodging a 4th gate activation technique with the sharingan, but not attain that level of speed and power. (Kakashi hasn't shown the kind of speed Lee has revealed with the 4th gate opening technique, nor that kind of impact in his punches.)

So far, we don't know if Kakashi can open gates.

I just don't see how he could possibly rival a 4th gate opening taijutsu with his own normal one if he can't open gates.

Sharingan is doujutsu. It doesn't increase your taijutsu skills per se.

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Oh and yes, this topic is pointless, but it keeps the thread going.