American's military supremacy ignored in War animes

[MechWarriorAelse]

Originally Posted by Entropy

Overall?

Tank:T-34/85-Simple,Powerful,Effective.Deployed in large numbers as well.
Tank Destroyer:German JagdPanther-Excellent base chassis,excellent gun,reasonably fast,good armor protection.What more could you want besides more of them?

Unless you meant all kinds of equipment,than...
The "Panzerknacker" variant Stuka.Twin 37mm wing mounted guns?I'm taken.Besides,Hans Rudel Flew one and he killed 500+ tanks,a battleship,and 1000+ other vehicles,plus he advised on the A-10 warthog,which means if even one guy can do all that,than the plane must at least be pretty good .

surprisingly ur wrong on all accounts
tank and tank destroyer were the same thing bac then and the King Tiger was the best. the T-35 rounds bounced right of its armor and the King Tiger could shoot twice as far. and it could hit two or three tanks in a row with one round

[hooliganj]

Originally Posted by FireBorn

lol, yeah.

Monster takes place in Germany, yet everyone in it speaks Japanese.. kinda funny.

They did an episode where Tenma met a vacationing couple from England, who used him as a translator for a while, since they didn't speak any German. Some of the dialogue was supposed to be in English, and some in German, but it was all spoken in Japanese. It's up to the viewer to keep it straight. Having them speak the same language only means that the viewer is supposd to understand what was said, nothing more.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Well, you know, American cartoon depicted natives or people from another nation speaks bad English. It is same thing with Japanese anime. Some supposedly foreign characters spoke flawless Japanese but fumbled badly in their origin language. It will be sometime if they can get VAs that can spoke English with Southern accent and excellent Japanese. Maybe one of you posters here can try for that?

[Sakaki]

Originally Posted by MechWarriorAelse

surprisingly ur wrong on all accounts
tank and tank destroyer were the same thing bac then and the King Tiger was the best. the T-35 rounds bounced right of its armor and the King Tiger could shoot twice as far. and it could hit two or three tanks in a row with one round

Oddly that reminds me of something a can't quite remember right now. But basically an allied general asked a allied tanker if it was true that the German rounds were going right through the Sherman tanks, to which the tanker replied that no they weren't going right through they just got inside and bounced around.

Also on the history channel they had a show where they compared military equipment. On the Tiger vs. Sherman show they put the Sherman above the Tiger simply because of tactics and the number of shermans vs. the number of Tigers and the fact that the Sherman was lighter than the Tiger so it could go where the Tiger couldn't and how they would put a couple of shermans in front of the Tiger to distract it while a couple of others would sneak around behind to hit the softer rear. The Tigers killed allot more Shermans than the Shermans killed Tigers, but there was just so many more Shermams. On a open field one on one fight the Tiger would defiantly come out on top. They also told about how Tigers could take allot of hits and keep on going, and how one Tiger took well over 100 hits and survived.

[Yoska]

By any chance have somebody read National Quiz ?

About the topic:
Who cares if american's military is ignored. Big deal. World revolves around US but it doesn't mean that Japanese want's to see it in a fiction. It's natural and it should be intelligible.

PS. Son Goku could beat the crap out of all armies of the world.

[MechWarriorAelse]

Originally Posted by Sakaki

Oddly that reminds me of something a can't quite remember right now. But basically an allied general asked a allied tanker if it was true that the German rounds were going right through the Sherman tanks, to which the tanker replied that no they weren't going right through they just got inside and bounced around.

Also on the history channel they had a show where they compared military equipment. On the Tiger vs. Sherman show they put the Sherman above the Tiger simply because of tactics and the number of shermans vs. the number of Tigers and the fact that the Sherman was lighter than the Tiger so it could go where the Tiger couldn't and how they would put a couple of shermans in front of the Tiger to distract it while a couple of others would sneak around behind to hit the softer rear. The Tigers killed allot more Shermans than the Shermans killed Tigers, but there was just so many more Shermams. On a open field one on one fight the Tiger would defiantly come out on top. They also told about how Tigers could take allot of hits and keep on going, and how one Tiger took well over 100 hits and survived.

it was hitlers mistake of not producing enough King Tiger tanks that lost him the war, besides the fact that he belived himself a military strategist which he was not. There were more shermans than tigers cause shermans were cheaper to produce. and that statement about the rounds bouncing around i believe was not about tank rounds but machine gun fire. ill find out cause i kno where i can find it.

[MechWarriorAelse]

Yoska, i like ur signature. but thats not true. a true warrior is an empty shell, without remorse and without feeling, one who will not let anything get in his way of duty and will carry out his orders until death removes his soul. thats y snipers are the most feared soldiers and the most highly trained, they must kill without remorse and without regret.

[MechWarriorAelse]

Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky

airplanes with bombs and stuff / stupid drivers crashing into wall, minefield, river, other tank
both had an equal score


depends: some say the ones with Intel inside are the best, others prefer AMD.

are u trying to be funny cause im not laughing. airplanes and that stuff were not tank destroyers. tank destroyers were almost identical to tanks except that they carried an anti-tank cannon. and for ur comment about the Intel and AMD inside: thats just a stupid comment, if it was supposed to be funny u need to learn how to tell jokes.

[Entropy]

Originally Posted by MechWarriorAelse

surprisingly ur wrong on all accounts
tank and tank destroyer were the same thing bac then and the King Tiger was the best. the T-35 rounds bounced right of its armor and the King Tiger could shoot twice as far. and it could hit two or three tanks in a row with one round

That's just silly,Tank Destroyers were not supposed to be in the exact same role as tanks,they were closer to Assault guns and even than they were different from those as well.The T-35 is a totally different tank from the T-34,what with the 35 being an earlier heavy design with multiple turrets and the T-34 is well,the sloped armored,christie suspension using AFV we all know and love.

As for my point about the '85 I considered such things as reliability and availability,which you frankly seemed to forget.The T-34/85,although introduced later in war,was still produced in very large numbers,with around 23,000 produced.Compare to that to the King Tiger,of which German Industry even after Albert Speer fully turned over her industry for the war effort(belatedly but nevertheless...)produced less than 500 of.

That means for for every King Tiger you had you could be matched by close to an entire battalion of T-34/85s.

The King Tiger,for all it's armor and weaponry was basically impractical in the first place.When designing a tank you can't just take in consideration armor ,weaponry and speed + manueverability,you have to consider the reliability of the vehicle(of which later German tanks suffered greatly in this regard),the logistics of the vehicle(the Tiger Ausf B was a fuel hog in a time when Germany was running short of fuel reserves),and the ability to transport the vehicle to the front(the Tiger II was HUGE,it was hard to transport by rail to the front).

Besides,if the Russian really,really,really wanted to match the german Tigers tank to tank,they would use thier JS-2 Heavy Breakthrough tanks instead of using medium tanks.The JS-2s could match a Tiger I in armor,was equal in speed,could match the Tiger I in AT capabilities while beating it in the HE area(which it was designed to do...it's main targets were enemy infantry and artillery,NOT tanks) and at the same time being ten tons lighter .It's only drawback would be the multi-part loading system which only gave it an ROF of 2 rounds per minute.Admittingly they can't match a King Tiger due to the huge weight difference of the two vehicles(47 tons vs 69 tons),but it could be done.

Did I mention that even the JS-2 outproduced the entire Tiger series?

So all in all the King Tiger=Most powerful tank,but not best overall,and Tank destroyers are different from tanks.The Tigers were Hugely complex and expensive,which meant they were made in a snail's place(a defect most german designs suffered from),they were much harder to transport than most other tanks,they broke down easily and required constant maintenance,they were fuel hogs,and later in the war their could be shattered by HE rounds due to a shortage of Manganese.

Oh,and if Hitler was a smarter guy he would have stopped production of tanks altogether and would have started making Tank Destroyers and Assault Guns instead earlier,since they're better suited to defense as well as simplier to make.

Next!

[Sepiraph]

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionar...nk%20destroyer

Since we are taking about WWII, tank destroyers are generally used in a defensive role, despite its mis-leading name. The tank destroyer is usually converted from an older model tank, by removing the traditional turret from its chasis to carry a larger gun. Generally that means the tank destroyer will have less frontal protection due to the removal of the turret, hence making it more suitable to defensive role.

Anyhow, Entropy you seem to be quite knowledgeable on WWII tanks, any good web site you can recommend?

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/intro.htm is one that I know of and is quite comprehensive.

As to the original thread question:

American's military supremacy ignored in War animes

Maybe it is because it has no relevance to the story? Most of the war-related animes take place in the future, not the present and the fact that they are fictional in nature.

[aahhsin]

Originally Posted by Entropy

Oh,and if Hitler was a smarter guy he would have stopped production of tanks altogether and would have started making Tank Destroyers and Assault Guns instead earlier,since they're better suited to defense as well as simplier to make.

Next!

That makes no sense.... Hitler was on the offense most of the time... one huge reason he lost was he took priority in killing off all the Jews over winning the war.

He also made the wrong desicion to defend a different beach instead of Normandy. He and his advisors were taking a chance from one of the beaches and unfortunetly for the Germans, he chose the wrong beach.

Having Japan as an ally and Japan bombing the USA wasn't a smart idea either. Sure the USA was doing many things bothering the Japanese, but what the hell.

[Sepiraph]

I believe what he was referring to (correct me if I mis-interpret him) was the period after the German defeat at Stalingrad (followed by later defeat at El Alamein). By then Germany had lost most of the offensive potential, yet ironically Hilter continued the production or even introduction of many heavy tank, such as the King Tiger. Coupled with the fuel shortage that Germany was facing at the time, it'd make more sense if they made more Tank destroyers instead.

[Entropy]

Sepiraph is correct,I was referring to later in the war when Germany had lost all of it's offensive momentum .

Still though,it's remarkable how the Germans managed to recycle many of thier older tank designs in new roles.The perfect example would the Stug III and StuH series tank destroyers and Assault guns,which were actually converted from obsolete MK III designs but were actually effective throughout the war.Hetzers are another good example

Btw,Achtung Panzer is a great site,I use it all the time.I also like to use The Russian battlefield,which is has a great AFV section,though it's more of a generalist site for everything Russian during WWII and a maybe a little past that.

[MechWarriorAelse]

Originally Posted by Entropy

That's just silly,Tank Destroyers were not supposed to be in the exact same role as tanks,they were closer to Assault guns and even than they were different from those as well.The T-35 is a totally different tank from the T-34,what with the 35 being an earlier heavy design with multiple turrets and the T-34 is well,the sloped armored,christie suspension using AFV we all know and love.

As for my point about the '85 I considered such things as reliability and availability,which you frankly seemed to forget.The T-34/85,although introduced later in war,was still produced in very large numbers,with around 23,000 produced.Compare to that to the King Tiger,of which German Industry even after Albert Speer fully turned over her industry for the war effect(belatedly but nevertheless...)produced less than 500 of.

That means for for every King Tiger you had you could be matched by close to an entire battalion of T-34/85s.

The King Tiger,for all it's armor and weaponry was basically impractical in the first place.When designing a tank you can't just take in consideration armor ,weaponry and speed + manueverability,you have to consider the reliability of the vehicle(of which later German tanks suffered greatly in this regard),the logistics of the vehicle(the Tiger Ausf B was a fuel hog in a time when Germany was running short of fuel reserves),and the ability to transport the vehicle to the front(the Tiger II was HUGE,it was hard to transport by rail to the front).

yea the only way a King Tiger was ever destroyed was when it was outmatched 50+ to 1. as for speed and menuverability the KT was slow as hell never even reached a top speed of 10 miles and its turret was unmovable. Had Hitler built his tanks in ratio of 4 panzers to every 1 KT he could have won by sheer force provided he put Rommel in command of all forces.

[MechWarriorAelse]

Originally Posted by aahhsin

He also made the wrong desicion to defend a different beach instead of Normandy. He and his advisors were taking a chance from one of the beaches and unfortunetly for the Germans, he chose the wrong beach.

actually it was not his mistake. 1) they feared Patton the most and moved troops to cover where he was expected to land(somewhere to the south by Italy)
2) his generals figured Normandy was the least likely spot so they moved their forces to the northeast

[Sakaki]

Originally Posted by MechWarriorAelse

actually it was not his mistake. 1) they feared Patton the most and moved troops to cover where he was expected to land(somewhere to the south by Italy)
2) his generals figured Normandy was the least likely spot so they moved their forces to the northeast

That is one reason why they had Patton sitting around with a fake army away from Normandy.

One big error on Hitler's part was the insistence that all the new jet planes be made in a bomber configuration, when what they really needed was the interceptor version to counter the incoming allied bombers. It wasn't until it was too late that he allowed them to make every so many into fighters. They never got to use the bombers, and the fighters might have prolonged the war. (I don't know if anything at that point other than atomics could have really won the war for them.)

[Kamui4356]

Wow, someone actually ressurected this thread.

Originally Posted by Sakaki

One big error on Hitler's part was the insistence that all the new jet planes be made in a bomber configuration, when what they really needed was the interceptor version to counter the incoming allied bombers. It wasn't until it was too late that he allowed them to make every so many into fighters. They never got to use the bombers, and the fighters might have prolonged the war. (I don't know if anything at that point other than atomics could have really won the war for them.)

Even if he had allowed the production of fighter versions earilier, it wouldn't have changed anything. The pilots would still be facing about 400-1 odds in the air, and allied pilots quickly figured out that by hanging around german airfields you could catch quite a number of me-262s too low on fuel to do anything but get shot down.
About the only thing germany could have done to win the war would have been to sell out japan. If germany had condemned the attack on pearl harbor and announce that they were ending their alliance in protest, congress would never have passed a declaration of war on germany, at least until Japan had been defeated. Plus, since the US would now be involved in their own war, it's possible that arms shipments to britain and russia would have also been halted, to redirect those supplies to american troops in the pacific. Losing the american logistical support, and the possibility of the US entering the war in europe anytime soon, it's likely britian would have sued for peace, leaving russia alone, before they were ready to handle it, as well as freeing up the german forces in western europe for use on the eastern front. Of course many people in the US chain of command would have seen through germany's condemnation of the attack and still pushed for a declaration of war on germany, and it's possible that Japan would sue for peace, having been abandoned by their ally, so it's not a sure thing that this would have worked either.

[MechWarriorAelse]

Originally Posted by Sakaki

That is one reason why they had Patton sitting around with a fake army away from Normandy.

One big error on Hitler's part was the insistence that all the new jet planes be made in a bomber configuration, when what they really needed was the interceptor version to counter the incoming allied bombers. It wasn't until it was too late that he allowed them to make every so many into fighters. They never got to use the bombers, and the fighters might have prolonged the war. (I don't know if anything at that point other than atomics could have really won the war for them.)

u r correct and for that i agree.

[MechWarriorAelse]

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

Wow, someone actually ressurected this thread.

Even if he had allowed the production of fighter versions earilier, it wouldn't have changed anything. The pilots would still be facing about 400-1 odds in the air, and allied pilots quickly figured out that by hanging around german airfields you could catch quite a number of me-262s too low on fuel to do anything but get shot down.
About the only thing germany could have done to win the war would have been to sell out japan. If germany had condemned the attack on pearl harbor and announce that they were ending their alliance in protest, congress would never have passed a declaration of war on germany, at least until Japan had been defeated. Plus, since the US would now be involved in their own war, it's possible that arms shipments to britain and russia would have also been halted, to redirect those supplies to american troops in the pacific. Losing the american logistical support, and the possibility of the US entering the war in europe anytime soon, it's likely britian would have sued for peace, leaving russia alone, before they were ready to handle it, as well as freeing up the german forces in western europe for use on the eastern front. Of course many people in the US chain of command would have seen through germany's condemnation of the attack and still pushed for a declaration of war on germany, and it's possible that Japan would sue for peace, having been abandoned by their ally, so it's not a sure thing that this would have worked either.

wat the...wow u have got to be stupid. 1) ME-262 were to fast to get shot meaning that 400-1 odds is like me(being an ME-262) stepping on 100 ants(allied bombers). 2) the ME-262s were much more manuvuerable than even the british Spitfire that they could weave between bomber formation without a scratch

[M.G.]

This may be hard to believe for some Americans, but most people around the world simply do not care about America. Our governments are interested for obvious reasons, but the people is a different story.

I have a better question... Why should anime show how powerful Americas military is?