(L) Sousou no Frieren (葬送のフリーレン)

[kari-no-sugata II]

If Frieren is able to meet Himmel again, do you think he'll tell her he loves/loved her?

Kinda feels that way...

[DragonOsman]

I just read the chapter.

I wonder if we'll ever get introduced to a character in this series that actually will manage to pull out the Hero's Blade. Although I guess it's not needed anymore since Himmel proved to be the true hero even without it. But I think there could be another twist, like either the Demon King didn't really get killed or he had a child that has already become the new Demon King.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

I wonder if we'll ever get introduced to a character in this series that actually will manage to pull out the Hero's Blade. Although I guess it's not needed anymore since Himmel proved to be the true hero even without it. But I think there could be another twist, like either the Demon King didn't really get killed or he had a child that has already become the new Demon King.

The point of the chapter is that a sword doesn't make you a hero no matter how powerful it may be. What makes you a hero is your will power and determination. That message would be ruined is someone actually pulls out the sword so it won't happen. This story is too good to shit on itself like that.

In fact, it's much more likely for the story to double down on that message by revealing the sword wasn't sealed there to be pulled out by the hero, but rather to inspire someone to become a hero despite not being able to pull it out. Indeed, if someone was willing to fight the demon lord despite failing to pull out the "hero sword" that would mean that person had true determination and bravery. That person, would be the true hero. Considering how this story rolls, it wouldn't surprise me if the sword was actually sealed for that reason.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

The point of the chapter is that a sword doesn't make you a hero no matter how powerful it may be. What makes you a hero is your will power and determination. That message would be ruined is someone actually pulls out the sword so it won't happen. This story is too good to shit on itself like that.

In fact, it's much more likely for the story to double down on that message by revealing the sword wasn't sealed there to be pulled out by the hero, but rather to inspire someone to become a hero despite not being able to pull it out. Indeed, if someone was willing to fight the demon lord despite failing to pull out the "hero sword" that would mean that person had true determination and bravery. That person, would be the true hero. Considering how this story rolls, it wouldn't surprise me if the sword was actually sealed for that reason.

My guess is that it's just a block with a sword-shaped protuberance. There's no actual sword to pull out.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

My guess is that it's just a block with a sword-shaped protuberance. There's no actual sword to pull out.

That could be it too. I guess a very powerful mage like Flamme could cast a spell to make it seem like the sword is there. And what attracts the demons would be the powerful magic from the spell.

Flamme was powerful enough to cast the barrier protecting the town from Aura's dead army. That barrier have been there for a thousand years and still is invulnerable.

[DragonOsman]

That's a pretty good guess. That Flamme cast such a spell.

[Twi]

Himmel: "Screw the Master Sword. We're speedrunning this."

*Proceeds to kill the Demon King*

I think it was a message that while Himmel didn't meet whatever was qualified as the Chosen Hero of that magic blade, he was still a hero who managed to make due without it. He didn't need its power to bring peace and that makes him a True Hero.

Alternatively, it could be something like if you're unworthy to lift the sword then you might not be a hero, but if you are a hero you don't need the sword.

[DragonOsman]

I think it's your guess starting with "alternatively".

It's also possible that it's as Anh_Minh and Kazu-kun said, though: that there is no Hero Sword and it's just a block of stone made to look like there's a sword stuck in a block of stone. With possibly a spell cast by Flamme to make it seem like there's a sword and that also attracts and terrifies demons.

I do still wonder if either the Demon King might still be alive or if he had a child that already became the new Demon King (if there's still a Demon King, I hope it's the child of the one Himmel killed so that the fact that Himmel killed the Demon King remains true).

[zeando]

Originally Posted by Twi

I think it was a message that while Himmel didn't meet whatever was qualified as the Chosen Hero of that magic blade, he was still a hero who managed to make due without it. He didn't need its power to bring peace and that makes him a True Hero.

I'm thinking there is also something about the idea of destiny in the story of the sword.

The idea of an hero being the chosen one, means they were destined to be the heroes. They were chosen by fate, or chosen by destiny. Which is like being granted something, rather than having gained it by effort or willingness.
See the average fantasy adventure story, where the hero or protaginist is often gifted, above anyone else. Either in personal power, lucky turns of events, or in possessing a weapon/tool/object of great power. (like an "hero sword")

While in the way things went with Himmel, it was made clear it isn't destiny to decide things, but the motivation and willingness of the person.
So long the person doesn't allow destiny and things outside their reach to dictate their actions.
(even if Himmel was still pretty powerful by himself, that's one thing which can still be attributed to destiny)


When Himmel stood there after failing to pull the sword, i was wondering what he was thinking.

What would have been the reaction of other people, who had tried before to pull the sword, after they failed at the same?
Being dejected? Being angry for having been rejected? Being disillusioned? Just giving up, and going back, abandoning the mission to defeat the demon king?
Anyone giving up, after failure, would have proved they were not the hero to start with.

What would a real hero have done instead? When faced with failure, or rejection.
Or, what would have done, someone with awareness of their own heroism, and not someone just trying to get some validation for themselves?
Or again, what would have done someone aware of not being the only hero to have ever existed? (so trying to relate to what others would have done if they faced the same)
Or, what would have done someone who has a mission to save people, first and foremost, with titles and fame coming only second?

I think part of the reaction of Himmel to the failure with the hero sword, came from either one or more of those reasons:
him being aware of himself, not thinking to be the only possible hero
while also not needing confirmation from others (or from magic objects)
but also (and probably, mainly) not getting distracted by the reason they came all the way there, not for the sword (even if he did care since childhood for it), but to defeat a demon king.

Not being able to obtain the hero sword may have been a let down for Himmel, on a personal level, but that was a different matter than the mission, so the mission carried on.


The conclusion stated by Himmel was also telling. He would become an hero only after defeating the demon king, that's what would make him an hero, not the possession of a sword.
Or how he worded it, even without the sword, he would still be an hero if he defeats the demon king.

Which actually makes total sense, it's the cliches of fantasy fiction, and fantasy games, which put the cart before the horse. With "heroes" being such, before they achieve anything significant and noteworthy.
Players and readers like to feel like heroes, before or without doing anything for it. Which is fictional (or lazy), and not realistic.
This manga is even setting straight some cliches.


Something which didn't get much attention on: the comment of Frieren about how legends of heroes build up, and grow indipendently from the actual truth of what happened.
It was just 3 panels, but that felt very important. Frieren with her long life should have been able to notice how tales developed over time during her own lifetime, by direct experience.

well... this got long

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by zeando

Which actually makes total sense, it's the cliches of fantasy fiction, and fantasy games, which put the cart before the horse. With "heroes" being such, before they achieve anything significant and noteworthy.
Players and readers like to feel like heroes, before or without doing anything for it. Which is fictional (or lazy), and not realistic.

I dunno. In games, the usual is that you can defeat the Big Bad and still be the errand boy of any rando off the street. Especially if there's a sequel or expansion pack...

[zeando]

^ It may also be a matter of different things mixing up. In the average fantasy fiction and games.
The "protagonist" (the character the story/game focuses on)
the "hero" (the one saving the day from disaster)
the "warrior" (or any other game class, related only to fighting style)
all together often without distinction.

Mangas (manwa, manhua, etc) also have this thing of calling the fighting class, often the one of the warrior, as hero. As if "hero" was just one more fighting skill.
That also owes something to fantasy games.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by zeando

^ It may also be a matter of different things mixing up. In the average fantasy fiction and games.
The "protagonist" (the character the story/game focuses on)
the "hero" (the one saving the day from disaster)
the "warrior" (or any other game class, related only to fighting style)
all together often without distinction.

Mangas (manwa, manhua, etc) also have this thing of calling the fighting class, often the one of the warrior, as hero. As if "hero" was just one more fighting skill.
That also owes something to fantasy games.

The Hero, which may or may not be its own class, is generally some kind of magic swordsman, while the Warrior is a pure warrior who doesn't use magic.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

That could be it too. I guess a very powerful mage like Flamme could cast a spell to make it seem like the sword is there. And what attracts the demons would be the powerful magic from the spell.

Flamme was powerful enough to cast the barrier protecting the town from Aura's dead army. That barrier have been there for a thousand years and still is invulnerable.

I don't think it's in Flamme's style to do that. It's been stated that the sword attracts demons, and she does everything to avoid attracting attention.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

I don't think it's in Flamme's style to do that. It's been stated that the sword attracts demons, and she does everything to avoid attracting attention.

I don't believe I said Flamme did it. I said a powerful mage like Flamme.

In any case, according to the legend of the sword, it was created by the goddess herself. But all the pictures of the goddess show her with elven ears. So, chances are the goddess was actually just an ancient elf mage. She should have been powerful enough to pull off such a spell.

[DragonOsman]

If the "Goddess" was just an ancient elf mage, she should've been (or is, if she's still alive which she probably is) a lot more powerful than Flamme.

[Diluc]

Naked Frieren
Apron Frieren

Best chapter

[Tenzen12]

I don't know man. We may get naked Frieren and apron Frieren but no naked apron Frieren. No matter how you look at it that would be best gift, even better then one she planned give him initially (damn you Fern!).

jokes aside, that was really good chapter and that hamburger may be actually best gift for Stark as he got some closure(?) on his family.

[DragonOsman]

The image above calls it a "hamburg steak", so I was thinking it was meant to be a hamburger steak, but the translation on Mangakakalot calls it a hamburger patty. But either way, it's a patty without the bun so you can't really call it a burger.

This was another touching chapter. Stark thought he never received a present from anyone, not his family nor his master, but the hamburger patties he got from his brother and from his master were his presents. He just didn't know. And he thought he abandoned his brother on his own, but it turns out his brother himself told him to run away and survive. He had a great brother and great master.

I love that scene with Stark looking up at the clouds and saying his impression of the shapes. Clouds that look like boobs and clouds that look like dung. And Fern going from thinking he's a pervert to thinking he just has the mind of a kid.

[James Rye]

Dang, Stark even lost his birthday present from Fern, that was expensive. Seems like we are about to acquire a priest for this party which they really do need, so we gonna get a full squad of heroes like in Frieren's "recent" days with Himmel, Heiter and Eisen.

[wuhugm]

This storyline is so abrupt