The ever so growing Crunchyroll and Video Streaming in general (+ Netflix & Amazon)

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

CR probably doesn't just want memberships, it probably also wants view counts. If you let members dictate precisely where their money goes without them watching anything, then you're not giving them any additional reason to watch anime shows on CR.

With this in mind, I think that CR's approach here is pretty clever. Their approach here encourages CR members to watch the shows they like the most and to watch them on CR, to CR's view-count benefit.

Agreed!

I definitely get your point here, and it makes me a bit cautious about them myself. Monopolies are almost never good for customers, so my default position on a monopoly is dislike.

However, the CR business model is one that banks on sheer numbers (of members and view-counts) compensating for low prices. That business model is probably the only one that makes sense for anime digital distribution, given the free fansub alternative that's out there.

For this business model to work as well as it can, having an "one-stop shop" is arguably ideal. You want to pool as many heavy internet-using anime fans as possible, because this is a niche market. I'm not sure if it's a market that could support two CRs (imagine each having half the view-counts that CR currently has, it would probably be a significant negative impact for CR).

Plus, even with a virtual monopoly, CR does have an indirect competitor in fansubs. If they jack the prices up too high, or offer too poor streams, or offer too poor service, then they'll lose some people to the fansub option. So that should keep them honest.

I do know what you mean, there probably isn't a big enough customer base to support two streaming services offering the same thing. I do agree with everything you said, and in the hands of the right staff, this would be fine, too- despite the monopoly. Sadly, as it stands, their leadership seems happy to be as sloppy as they can afford to without driving customers away.

They can be pretty lenient with their service, because most people subscribe to CR because they want to support the industry and are happy to do so with minimal demands- as long as the price is low enough, they will stay- they have nowhere else to go without resporting to pirating the shows instead.
And if you look closely, they are not exactly shy with that lax attitude. I took a look at the thread about the new shareholder on their site.. Pretty sure no other business could get away with giving their paying customers such snotty responses to their worries, whether founded or not. It's downright rude. In the real world, people get fired for that kind of attitude.
Only a few users pointed out, and rightfully so, that they found the official response insulting. No matter how informal the setting, you're still speaking to the people who keep you in business, and whether they mind or not- show them some respect.

Or, look at Valvrave right now, it's delayed for the second week in a row. By an entire day. In my experience delays like that aren't a rare occasion either, I've seen it happen pretty frequently. Of course, stuff happens, but no matter the reason, they'd be working damn hard to fix whatever causes that, if they had to be afraid of losing their subs to Site X that does not take such lax an attitude to the "one hour after broadcast" promise.
(Though I guess that stuff loses them some views, it doesn't seem to be enough to want them to fix the problem)

It's a pet peeve of mine that they're operating with the mindset "as long as our service isn't too bad, we don't need to worry" as opposed to "we aim to offer you the best and most reliable service out there so you don't need to go anywhere else" as they ought to.
Technically, that does not need an end to the monopoly to fix but an attitude adjustment. Sadly I feel like they're the type that does not change unless they have a monetary incentive to do so (one need only look at their history to confirm that much).
So I have to conclude that the real problem- although contributory- isn't the monopoly, but the management.

I agree they have of course made an improvement to the streaming situation, but the current situation is still far from ideal.
Personally, I still use them, but grudgingly so, and only because there is no other choice out there.

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Sorry but as a subscriber I like that most of my anime needs are on one site. That means I only have to subscribe to one place not five.

Sorry, but I think you missed the point. See above.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

Sorry, but I think you missed the point. See above.

No I didn't miss your point. For one thing Crunchyroll is not a monopoly. There is Hulu Plus, Funimation, Nico, etc.

Then there are related things like fansubs, br/dvds, Netflix, Adult Swim. Neon Valley. Would you like me to go on.

I also don't understand your point that the streaming services should offer the same shows. That makes absolute no sense. That being said certain shows are available on multiple platforms like Fate Zero, Kill La Kill and Attack on Titan.

But it is not a Monopoly just because Crunchyroll only has certain shows and Funimation some others.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

No I didn't miss your point. For one thing Crunchyroll is not a monopoly. There is Hulu Plus, Funimation, Nico, etc.

CR and Hulu aren't that good a comparison here. It would be like comparing a specialty channel that focuses on one sport and one sport alone (be it football, baseball, or whatever) to ESPN, which focuses on all sports.

And Funimation and Nico are much more limited in what they offer than what CR is, IIRC.

CR is as much a monopoly as, say, the Windows OS used to be (and arguably still is on home PCs).

I also don't understand your point that the streaming services should offer the same shows.

It's good to have at least a few different grocery stores all offering the same range and brand names of basic food items (chicken, milk, ground beef, cheese, etc...) because then that empowers customers to do comparison shopping which in turn motivates grocery stores to have frequent, if not constant, sales on those food items.

Much the same idea applies to SkullFaerie's thinking here. Strong competition is always good for customers.


Don't get me wrong, I think that CR has largely been good for the western anime fandom (at least so far), but the fact it's so predominant in the anime digital distribution marketplace is a bit worrisome.

[GDB]

It's an apt comparison if said network decided it wanted to branch out to other sports, though, since that's what CR's new owners said they want to do.

And grocery stores aren't the best comparison for that, as food is food. It isn't "licensed". A more apt comparison is fast food, where "burger" is similar to "slice of life" or the such. If you want a specific series, you have to go to the specific place to get it. If you just want something of that genre, you can go to any of the choices.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

CR and Hulu aren't that good a comparison here. It would be like comparing a specialty channel that focuses on one sport and one sport alone (be it football, baseball, or whatever) to ESPN, which focuses on all sports.

And Funimation and Nico are much more limited in what they offer than what CR is, IIRC.

CR is as much a monopoly as, say, the Windows OS used to be (and arguably still is on home PCs).

That doesn't negate my point that CR is not anywhere close to a monopoly. It doesn't matter that Hulu and Funimation's platforms are slightly different from CR's. They still all offer anime

A monopoly is something that has exclusive control over a commercial activity. CR does not have exclusive control over anime or even streaming anime. Even if CR was the only streaming service around (which they are not). They would still not be considered a monopoly because of all the other companies that offer anime in other formats.

People throw around the word monopoly way too easily without actually understanding what it is.

And if CR has more anime titles than other companies then perhaps they do better business with Japanese companies. That is certainly no fault of CR.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by GDB

It's an apt comparison if said network decided it wanted to branch out to other sports, though, since that's what CR's new owners said they want to do.

Well, yeah, but I'm talking about right now.

And grocery stores aren't the best comparison for that, as food is food. It isn't "licensed".

My comparison is fine for the point I'm making. It's a simple point. When two different places are selling the exact same product, it's better for customers.

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

That doesn't negate my point that CR is not anywhere close to a monopoly.

Then your point is wrong. They are at least close to a monopoly. Not for anime as a whole, of course, but for the legal digital distribution of anime outside of Japan.

It does matter, from an anime fan perspective, that Hulu and Funimation'a platforms aren't on par with CR's when it comes to anime alone. It means that CR has very little real competition in their current marketplace.

Look, I get that you're a big CR fan, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to grasp the bigger picture here and see the potential downsides to the current situation.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

It does matter, from an anime fan perspective, that Hulu and Funimation'a platforms aren't on par with CR's when it comes to anime alone. It means that CR has very little real competition in their current marketplace.

Crunchyroll is not stopping Hulu and Funimation from improving their platform for anime. I also haven't heard of any companies that tried but couldn't enter the market because of CR.

Oops I also forgot companies like Anime Sols and Viki.

Look, I get that you're a big CR fan, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to grasp the bigger picture here and see the potential downsides to the current situation.

I do grasp the bigger picture that people here don't actually understand what a monopoly is so they throw around words to prove their point.

Also while I might be a fan of CR. I am worried about the merger thing and what it might mean for their anime platform in the future. So I am not looking at CR through rose colored glasses or think everything is perfect. I just think it is silly to say CR is a monopoly when it is not one at all.

[GDB]

Sounds more like an oligopoly to me.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by GDB

Sounds more like an oligopoly to me.

Yeah, of course that is pretty common for a niche market, which anime definitely is.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

Or, look at Valvrave right now, it's delayed for the second week in a row. By an entire day. In my experience delays like that aren't a rare occasion either, I've seen it happen pretty frequently. Of course, stuff happens, but no matter the reason, they'd be working damn hard to fix whatever causes that, if they had to be afraid of losing their subs to Site X that does not take such lax an attitude to the "one hour after broadcast" promise.

I think you underestimate the service crunchy provides

here's crunchy's competition in France:
-ADN: 2 week delay on every show online, 24 hours if you subscribe to the tv channel instead of the online streaming service (but it's a TV channel so you have to watch it at the time it airs or use a dvr).
-Dybex: 1week delay (they just use it as a way to advertise for DVD sales)
-wakanim: same day most of the time, with the occasional delay.


So really, it's not as if what crunchy is doing is easy to beat.

edit:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

It's good to have at least a few different grocery stores all offering the same range and brand names of basic food items (chicken, milk, ground beef, cheese, etc...) because then that empowers customers to do comparison shopping which in turn motivates grocery stores to have frequent, if not constant, sales on those food items.

Except that with anime that's not a possibility as far as I can see, a show can't be licensed to two different companies that'll broadcast it at the same time.
To go with your comparison,the way licensing works certain stores can only offer brand X and others brand Y, so the more competition the more the brands are split up between the stores and the more stores you have to go to to get all the brands you want, and that's really not convenient for the consumer.

I mentioned ADN above, it was created after two licensors merged their two streaming service together because they realized that people were not going to want to pay a whole bunch of different subscriptions to get all their anime.

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

And Funimation and Nico are much more limited in what they offer than what CR is, IIRC.

CR blows Funi away in terms of simulcasts, but their catalogues are equally huge and Funi has more older series than Crunchy.

[Magin]

From what I've seen, the other big difference between the two (minus that CR has more new and Funi more old), is that CR is more of a sub-based site, whereas the whole point of what Funimation offers for subscriptions is early access to the dubbing of shows

... not that I can really say too much, since I will still hunt down fansubs over any paid service (especially since fansubs still tend to have the better translation quality)

[goodman528]

Recently began watching anime again. Is there any good anime streaming sites? I prefer dubs to subs, and I prefer multi-platform support for iphone, ipad, (optionally android), as well as PC.

I tried Crunchyroll, their catalog is lacking and there are only subs, no dubs. The worst problem is even with premium account I spend a lot of time staring at the message "error: request timed out" or "error: video player not working" on my iphone. The quality is good most of the time, but sometime randomly changes to really bad un-watchable quality for a few minutes which is really annoying.

Wanted to get the FUNimation app and sign up for a membership, then discovered it's not available in the UK app store. Tried signing up for a US app store account, but discovered I need a US credit card address.

Surely there are some good service providers out there? Why is it that so many years after the internet has been invented the legit service providers are still not able to offer a good enough service?! Isn't it absurd that p2p or newsgroup can provide a pirate HD copy in a few hours when legit customers have to wait for a couple of weeks for a DVD shipping?!

Don't get me wrong, I want to pay for anime and support the creators, if I find a good service provider I would just shove money at them. It is just frustrating to see how behind the legit businesses are compared to the pirates. Similarly how is it my friend's jail-broken iphone running ios 6 has far better functionality than my legit iphone running ios 7?! There has got to be a better option than rizon and torrents, it is the 21st century now... ... right?

[SeijiSensei]

I actually think Crunchyroll is on the forefront of streaming media. Services like Hulu do not offer premium options that eliminate advertising, for instance. Most of them are too busy trying to negotiate the maze of licensing issues that exist for live-action television programming.

I have watched CR on my Android phone without the sorts of problems you report. In general I prefer to watch shows on my large-screen TV connected to a computer than on some dinky handheld device.

I believe Neon Alley, the service from VIZ, only streams dubs. However it is set up more like a vertical channel so you have to pay attention to the schedule. I also don't know whether it is available in the UK.

There are some new services appearing in the UK from Animax and a spinoff of French licensor Wakanim. Have you examined their offerings?

Also, it seems rather contradictory to argue that you want to watch dubs, which can take months to produce, then criticize streaming services for not providing their material more quickly. I don't think one can ask more of CR than same-day or next-day delivery, but if you want that, you going to be reading subtitles, not listening to dubs. Unless you think the Japanese production committees should create English dubs as well as Japanese ones? That's certainly not going to happen anytime soon.

[aohige]

We already have an active thread for this, guys

The ever so growing Crunchyroll and Video Streaming in general

Right on the front page, even.

[Triple_R]

In my experience, the following is overwhelmingly true for anime fans...

1) The more hardcore an anime fan is, the more likely s/he is to use digital distribution chains, and the more likely s/he is to strongly favor subs over dubs.

2) The less hardcore an anime fan is, the more likely s/he is to wait for anime to show up on local TV and the more likely s/he is to favor dubs over subs.


You're kind of in a rare place, goodman528, in favoring dubs over subs but also wanting to use digital distribution chains. So anime producers/licensers probably feel like the marketplace you represent just isn't large enough to chase after in a big way. And it would be pretty big for them to dub anime in multiple languages right out of the starting gate.

[GreyZone]

Watching anime on Iphone? No way, the screen is way too small! On tablet maybe, but on a smart phone all you can see are close ups, which is not really the type of entertainment most people would want, I guess.

Dubbing costs time and money as well and since a lot of anime fans prefer the original voices over the dubs, why should they hurry with the dubs, if they can sell much cheaper and faster subbed versions?

Dubs don't seem to get away from the DVD/Blu-Ray "cage" anytime soon under these conditions.

[Benigmatica]

Speaking of Crunchyroll, even though they can stream many anime shows, I think they should work on the licensing part 'cause they only offer Naruto and other short anime shows in my country...

On the other hand, ABS-CBN should create a streaming spin-off for Hero TV, similar to their IWanTV! site.

[solomon]

Just a general observation here.

It seems that beyond original expectations that the streaming market is alive and healthy? Can I say that?

Cause you have Funmation, Crunchyroll and Neon Alley as mains, along with Hulu and Netflix as secondary sources of legal streaming. And that's just in America. I know france has it's Crunchyroll site and Wakanim is in on the streaming front too, but I am not aware of the situation outside of North America.

By and large I have been using the free versions of these sites for recent shows. I think that while there still will always be a fansub movement, that the companies have FINALLY made some headway in providing what fans have wanted all along.

Now, call me nostalgic and naive. But I still kinda think that an anime has REALLY made it, if it's on TV. (Give Attack on Titan a good dub and an 11pm saturday nite slot on Adult Swim and easily 1 million each week). What do you all think?

[ArrowSmith]

All I know is CR is a reasonably affordable way to watch ad-free simulcast anime in HD. The interface is pretty good on web and mobile. Bottom line is that in 2014, it's never been better for American anime fans. I could not have dreamt even 10 years ago of having 15+ simulcast titles per season like it's happening now on Crunchyroll. It's enough to make a grown man weep.