Macross Frontier - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[herbert]

Anyone thinks the kiss in Zero movie may be CGed?

Originally Posted by Tsuchiro

actually line #6 hasn't been said yet... its a bit different from the one in episode 8

By this standard, #2 is unsaid as well because it has been rephased in show. However I doubt Sheryl will make a similiar line in future (who will she tells to?) so I think #6 should marked as already-said as well.

[lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by kujoe

That really doesn't say much when you can make possible comparisons with other plot structures from other anime. lone_wolf's comment after yours comes to mind:


Like I said, it's quite difficult to predict at this point, and this is what also constitutes the so-called Kawamori factor for me. And while I don't think it's that simple to compare differing stories just like that, based on what I've seen so far (even though I hate to admit it) it's likely that Ranka's cute character design will enable her to win Alto's affections in the end and not really the actual circumstance per se, since the story will likely flesh out both female leads anyway. Putting it in another way: Given that both sides are equal, the underlying spirit of the times will ultimately decide on what's "right" in this case. With "cuteness" and "moe" in Ranka's side (at least the usual kind), she already has a big advantage over Sheryl.

....Dammit. A bit long. I need to start commenting about the robots and the dogfights more.

Actually what would make me more flabbergasted is a SherylxRanka ending.....Sheryl seems more interested in Ranka anyway LOL....my gaydar went off a few times haha!

And my wishful thinking says Sheryl should have her way with the Rookie.
But whatever...as long as Sheryl is happy with someone. Although I admit...aesthetically she does look good with Hime-sama.

....I'm almost inclined to pair Sheryl up with Nanase...in my world of course.

Ugh sorry...I'm off-topic folks!


--Lone Wolf
一匹 狼


===================
Lone Wolf's blog of NatShiz
http://ippikiookami.squarespace.com

[FLCL]

freaking amazing ep

but the miss macross is so up tight and shallow

love episodes like this, i wish michel wouldve had a cameo as Roy, wouldve been amazing XD

[kilroy0097]

So a little Echii action between Sheryl and Ranka. Now that would certain cause a buzz.

[dodgethis_sg]

And JC Staff returns to do the in between animation for Frontier.

[rpgman1]

Great episode overall and better than the last one. Alto's past comes back to haunt him and he still has troubles with his father. What the heck is up with Leon? It looks like he set up with that Matrix like agent with Kikuo Inoue's voice about the Hydra and Ranka. Makes me wonder who is the mastermind. I'll just hold off on the pairings till we get some real development.

[kilroy0097]

Oh for your Macross Fans that love detail...

In this scene:


You can find more information on it "word for word" from that scene on the monitor at this website. As far as I can tell it's a literal copy and paste.

[4Tran]

I feel that this was yet another fantastic episode. What impressed me the most is that they basically took a bunch of Macross Zero animation and recycled it. A few scenes were shot-for-shot and line-for-line from the original. However, it was done with so much creativity and imagination that the end result is quite awesome; and it fit the story to boot. I also thought that the director is a direct reference to Kawamori, and that the self-insert was a long time coming.

Originally Posted by Kimichi

Ranka just feels too shallow character depth wise and not a complete person...Whereas sheryl always comes off as her own unique being full of vibrant energy. Best way I can phrase it I guess is that Sheryl exhibits more qualities of a woman in love enjoying life, whereas ranka seems to be the silly schoolgirl with a crush...

I think that Ranka's character is filling out quite nicely. She may not have the kind of initial impact that Sheryl displayed, but that's sort of natural given the disparity in their initial statures. Character wise, Ranka has already moved beyond the silly schoolgirl archetype, and is well on her way to becoming something much more.

Originally Posted by lone_wolf

But anyhow...I keep getting this KOR (Kimagure Orange Road) vibe with Sheryl as Madoka being the "good friend" and pushing and supporting Alto and Ranka when all this time she's been secretly pining her him as well. And for those who are familiar with KOR would know who won out in the end...

I get the feeling that Sheryl's still too uncertain about her own feelings towards Alto to be doing anything like that consciously. However, it's obvious that she enjoys his company, and she's interested enough to find out things about him.

As for a comparison with Madoka, I think that Sheryl is a much deeper character - she's certainly more fun.

Originally Posted by lone_wolf

I guess the thing that makes Sheryl so attractive is her intense drive and professionalism as others have stated. I LOVE the fact that she doesn't play this damsel in distress.

I'm completely sick of females portrayed in such a "needy" light....*shrugs*...perhaps I myself am living vicariously through Sheryl LOL....I just love that she doesn't take crap from anyone.

I agree. Sheryl absolutely and positively refuses to play the damsel-in-distress role if there's the slightest thing that she can do about it. Heck, she even tries to make the best of whatever bad situation she finds herself in. In a way, this is also a weakness since she seems to hate asking for help even when she'd be better off doing so - a lot of this leads to her doing reckless/foolhardy things like with that Ex-Gear.

Originally Posted by lone_wolf

Oh well...sorry for spamming this side of the forum with my useless comments....just wanted to comment on how enamored I am with the series at the moment. I just feel that this is such an excellent homage to the original.

On the contrary - your comments are welcome, and I for one, found them an interesting read.

Originally Posted by Westlo

The difference is that Alto asked that question and Sheryl answered it so ALto knows that Sheryl "gets" it. Minor thing really but these sort of things will add up over the course of the series for both girls.

I think that each of our leads support the other two to a degree. It's also partly this level of support that elevates the show from being more mundane fare.

Originally Posted by Westlo

I still feel like she doesn't "get" Alto at the moment, compared to Sheryl. But like I said that will change.

A lot of this stems from the fact that Ranka just doesn't know all that much about Alto - she certainly didn't know about his kabuki performances, so their interaction hasn't progressed all that much beyond what we see on-screen. This is the first episode where she's aware of how little she knows, and I think that it'll move her character in interesting directions.

By way of contrast, Sheryl knows about Alto's acting background, and she's empathetic enough to realize that he's not ready to talk about it, so she doesn't bring it up until he was ready to do so.

Originally Posted by Westlo

I don't know how much importance to put into that scene since the manga skipped it completely. Went straight from the shelter to Ozma in hospital and he was accepted right there. They did make the Miss Macross part have a stronger AltoxRanka vibe though.

I would imagine that the anime pays absolutely no attention to what occurs in the manga. It seems that the writers of the latter were just given an outline from the anime staff of what they were supposed to cover.

Originally Posted by Haesslich

We're far from it, yes, but at the same time all this shipping reminds me of it due to the way people are saying that Ranka will win because she's the underdog, just as people say Sheryl will 'win' as she's the Misa-type, older and more mature.

I hates it. We hates it like we hates Naruto. We hates it with a passion.

I sort of agree. There's so much more to Frontier than the horse race discussion - heck, there's far more to just the relationships than the horseracing. I'm not even all that interested in what the "outcome" will be at this point - the interactions themselves are far more fascinating.

Still, a lot of people seem interested in this kind of discussion, so all I can suggest is that you ignore the portion of the discussion that doesn't interest you.

Originally Posted by Haesslich

Besides, I suspect there will at LEAST be a solid friendship at the end between all three, if they survive. They started that back in episode 3 in the shelter, and things since then have continued it even if there's a possible rivalry due to their roles in one another's lives. Ranka's starting to become more conscious of the fact that she DOES like Alto, which is at least a step in developing any real feelings towards him beyond that of gratitude for saving her life... or for listening and being the encouraging friend without being presumptuous like Nanase can be at times.

If it weren't the distance between them, I imagine that they would already have formed a solid friendship. Sheryl certainly seems inclined, but she's been busy with work pretty much for the entirety of the show (with the exceptions of episode 5, and partially episode 8) - even her joining Miboshi Academy was work. And in return, given her fame, she's not the easiest person to approach. This is probably why she has to take the initiative in any of her relationships.

Originally Posted by Haesslich

In some ways, Alto's usurped Ozma's position as the most important male figure in Ranka's life... but Ozma did it to himself. I'm sure Lt. Glass will be most happy to tell him why he can't just be gruff with everyone... or Bobby might go GARby and end up doing so.

To a degree, Ozma himself is pushing Ranka away on purpose. By episode 8, he knew that Ranka had to find her own way, and that his being too close to her would prevent that. He's basically playing the parent role, allowing the fledgling to fly on her own power for the first time.

Originally Posted by Westlo

Yes it was deliberate but I don't think it was to goad Ranka on, how was she to know that Ranka might look over in her direction for the short time she was kissing Alto. It's not like she made a scene beforehand to make sure Ranka would be looking over. She was definitely serious about the kiss though, notice her eyes, she put on an act afterwards with the "I can't believe you were serious thing" though.

I get the feeling that Sheryl's reason for kissing Alto was to make more fun of him. Still, it's possible that it meant more to her than she expected.

Still, in terms of romance, Ranka is the closest to recognizing her own feelings.

Originally Posted by ani_d

-The long anticipated Ranka and Alto kiss

Honestly, I didn't really expect this either since I thought the producers would be too chicken to do a kiss scene this early.

Lesson: Macross = ignore standard anime convention. Macross shows are simply more likely to use older Macross conventions than to borrow from other show.

Originally Posted by Haesslich

That is what 'shipping' is - people who argue for or against a relationship, then take personal offense if someone disagrees with them, then turn forums into flame-wars because the other person is obviously a moron if they think pairing Z won't happen.

There's enough stuff going on in Frontier that I don't think a flamewar will break out over the horse race. Or rather, it better not.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

I think Alto's at his best when his Kabuki past comes back to haunt him. I enjoyed the use of it in this episode, as it was presented as both a foilable and a strength of his. I especially liked the bit where he said to just empty your head and not think about what you're doing.

Yeah, that bit about Alto's father was quite good. Despite whatever initial impression he may have made, his influence hasn't been entirely (maybe not even largely) negative on Alto.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

I'm going to give Sheryl the benefit of the doubt and believe she was geninue for the first time in the whole series for all of three seconds after that kiss. Still doesn't excuse the fact she stole Alto's first kiss for herself, even if it was a bit more than she expected. Serves her right for underestimating what it really means to be a person.

I think that you're deluding yourself into thinking that Sheryl has been anything but entirely genuine outside of her professional duties.

Originally Posted by herbert

Anyone thinks the kiss in Zero movie may be CGed?

Absolutely. They'd use CG to replace Alto's face with that of Shin's actor .

[skyfirefly]

man i thought they were gonna dug up some things about
macross zero!! >_< ...

[Tsukiyomi]

Originally Posted by skyfirefly

man i thought they were gonna dug up some things about
macross zero!! >_< ...

They did. Something important like maybe Ranka is a direct descendent of Mao herself. my guess =\

[Sepiraph]

This episode gets a perfect 10.

[skyfirefly]

Originally Posted by Tsukiyomi

They did. Something important like maybe Ranka is a direct descendent of Mao herself. my guess =\

ohh and its a great coincidence that alto and shin are pilots too
and sheryl and sara are both singing.. does ranka swim?

[kilroy0097]

I watched the episode again just make sure on a few things.

On the line Ozma says when looking at the playbook for the movie,

Spoiler:

"Maybe it's fate that Ranka would play the role of Dr. Mao...", now more than before I feel there is something very specific he is referring to. Ozma obviously knows more about Ranka's past. Is Ranka perhaps related to Mao Nome from Macross Zero? Perhaps even her granddaughter. If so then that would explain quite clearly why Ranka has shown the ability to sing "Deculture". If she's a direct descendant from Mao and hence Sara then perhaps that ability is inherited genetically.

Interesting theory to say the least.

[Hypernova]

Originally Posted by Tsukiyomi

They did. Something important like maybe Ranka is a direct descendent of Mao herself. my guess =\

Ozuma did mention how ironic it was for Ranka to cast as Mao, so there's definatly a connection.

Man Ranka really hit it big. And the scene where the director tells her "your legend begins now!" was quite powerful.

By why? of all scenes was the fighting animation out sourced again? It looked like the 90's during that scene.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I think that Ranka's character is filling out quite nicely. She may not have the kind of initial impact that Sheryl displayed, but that's sort of natural given the disparity in their initial statures. Character wise, Ranka has already moved beyond the silly schoolgirl archetype, and is well on her way to becoming something much more.

She's moved more than anyone else in the series, and hasn't really changed because of it. More than anyone else, the story's revolved around her.

By way of contrast, Sheryl knows about Alto's acting background, and she's empathetic enough to realize that he's not ready to talk about it, so she doesn't bring it up until he was ready to do so.

She knows because Alto told her? Was that what all that angry hand gesturing in episode 8 was all about when Nanase and Luca were watching them from around a corner?

I sort of agree. There's so much more to Frontier than the horse race discussion - heck, there's far more to just the relationships than the horseracing. I'm not even all that interested in what the "outcome" will be at this point - the interactions themselves are far more fascinating.

I also sort of agree. I think Macross would be better served if it just dropped the love triangle thing altogether. I think the military/coloninal aspects of the series has suffered because of it, especially after having started watching the original series. All the cloak and blade conspiracy bullcrap Leon and Grace and whomever the hell else has cooking on the backburner doesn't compare to honest to goodness battles rich with relevanant dialogue.

Almost makes me think that Frontier is posing as a Macross series, rather than actually being one.

If it weren't the distance between them, I imagine that they would already have formed a solid friendship. Sheryl certainly seems inclined, but she's been busy with work pretty much for the entirety of the show (with the exceptions of episode 5, and partially episode 8) - even her joining Miboshi Academy was work. And in return, given her fame, she's not the easiest person to approach. This is probably why she has to take the initiative in any of her relationships.

Sheryl's been alone most of her life right? She has more social skills than some like that has any business having.

To a degree, Ozma himself is pushing Ranka away on purpose. By episode 8, he knew that Ranka had to find her own way, and that his being too close to her would prevent that. He's basically playing the parent role, allowing the fledgling to fly on her own power for the first time.

Do they even live in the same place?

Lesson: Macross = ignore standard anime convention. Macross shows are simply more likely to use older Macross conventions than to borrow from other show.

So what Macross was episode 8 borrowed from?

Yeah, that bit about Alto's father was quite good. Despite whatever initial impression he may have made, his influence hasn't been entirely (maybe not even largely) negative on Alto.

For sure. The stage is calling him. More than anything or anyone else, it's what drives him. He is running away and it's just a matter of time before he gives up on the whole silly piloting business.

I think that you're deluding yourself into thinking that Sheryl has been anything but entirely genuine outside of her professional duties.

She said it herself. She's only "just Sheryl" around Alto, and even that is questionable due to her stalking him over an earring that meant the world to her one moment and than was a fine thing to gloat over with it's loss the next.

So long as she makes whimiscal exceptions to who she treats like crap and who she does not, there will always be room for doubt about whether or not she's for real about anything.

[withered_joy]

Don't know if someone mentioned this before but the OP lyrics just crack me up. Especially after this episode. A peek into future relationship complications, perhaps? Then from who's point of view is it singing from... This is pure speculation or over-analyzing anyway but to hell with it I think sounds like what Ranka would be thinking. Though I must say, I am not participating in any shipping stuff. Be it with Ranka or Sheryl I think both girls have their merits and faults. The interaction is interesting, however. Also, is it just me who thinks that maybe Nanase also has a thing for hime-sama? She seems to take some particular notice of him. Maybe I'm just delusional after Sheryl's casual tease in ep 8, but regardless it's obvious she has no chance, not being a major character and all. I don't know if I want to see complications between Nanase and Ranka over romantic issues anyway. So I'm going to think I'm just over-analyzing.

To tell the truth, I was quite put off by the preview episode of Macross F. I just absolutely LOATH damsel-in-distress crap. The scene with Ranka just sitting there being vulnerable to attack just made me want to punch her into normal survival instincts. Good thing that I reconsidered and decided to watch the series three-days ago and realized her inability to react properly to danger had to do with a past trauma. I also didn't quite like Sheryl at first but after a while she proved herself to be a very interesting character. I like her strength of character and all, very independent and definitely not clingy. It's also hilarious to see her interact with hime-sama. In the end, a Queen is a few ranks higher up than a Princess, no?

Anyhow, I haven't watched Macross Zero (or any other Macross stuff, for the matter--mainly because I have a distaste for...unpleasant out-of-style art) before so I'm sort of lost whenever there is some reference, and judging from the comments posted here I think there are some huge references...like...the entire movie stuff. I shall proceed to clear out my confusion.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Hypernova

Man Ranka really hit it big. And the scene where the director tells her "your legend begins now!" was quite powerful.

It's an interesting play on how, despite Leon's efforts, Ranka managed to make herself shine in the public eye. There were all sorts of nice directional touches throughout the episode that made that point stand out.

Originally Posted by Hypernova

By why? of all scenes was the fighting animation out sourced again? It looked like the 90's during that scene.

That was definitely the weakest scene of the episode. I don't think that the animation was all that bad - plenty of movement was used to portray the action; however, the artwork was certainly off-model. It's really much more jarring because of how much it contrasted with the rest of the episode.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

She's moved more than anyone else in the series, and hasn't really changed because of it. More than anyone else, the story's revolved around her.

More accurately, the main plot seems to revolve around Ranka slightly more than anyone else. However, the story itself is more centered on Alto - admittedly it's only by a small degree since all three leads are extremely important.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

She knows because Alto told her? Was that what all that angry hand gesturing in episode 8 was all about when Nanase and Luca were watching them from around a corner?

Certainly not - Sheryl already knew that Ranzo Saotome was very famous, and connecting the dots isn't exactly very difficult. It's also out of character for Alto to volunteer this kind of information.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

I also sort of agree. I think Macross would be better served if it just dropped the love triangle thing altogether. I think the military/coloninal aspects of the series has suffered because of it, especially after having started watching the original series. All the cloak and blade conspiracy bullcrap Leon and Grace and whomever the hell else has cooking on the backburner doesn't compare to honest to goodness battles rich with relevanant dialogue.

Almost makes me think that Frontier is posing as a Macross series, rather than actually being one.

I think that you're misconstruing my remarks. The love triangle is an extremely important element; it's just that the characters themselves aren't quite at that stage in their relationships yet, and that those relationships, as they currently stand, are way more interesting than who wins out in the end.

The weakest element for me is the cloak and dagger stuff; it's never been a strong suit of the Macross shows, and so far it's a bit superfluous (admittedly, I'm not all that fond of that kind of storytelling to begin with).

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Sheryl's been alone most of her life right? She has more social skills than some like that has any business having.

The idea of a streetwise kid having good social skills doesn't strike me as all that odd. That same kid making it into the big times in the entertainment world would have to build them up even more in order to thrive.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

So what Macross was episode 8 borrowed from?

Hah! Just because a generalization is mostly true doesn't rule out all exceptions. While the panty bit has more to do with other genres, the frenetic energy and fish-out-of-water comedy dates back to SDF Macross.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

She said it herself. She's only "just Sheryl" around Alto, and even that is questionable due to her stalking him over an earring that meant the world to her one moment and than was a fine thing to gloat over with it's loss the next.

And Ranka, and Grace. With regard to everyone else, she either knows them on a strictly professional basis, or she doesn't have that much interaction with them at all. As for the earring thing, I think that it's clear that it meant a lot to her, but she values Alto's friendship and safety even more.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

So long as she makes whimiscal exceptions to who she treats like crap and who she does not, there will always be room for doubt about whether or not she's for real about anything.

It really isn't very hard to tell what's genuine and what isn't. Quite simply, if her actions run counter to the character image of "Sheryl Nome, Galaxy Fairy" then you can be certain that she's genuine (unless you know that she's hiding something).

Originally Posted by withered_joy

Don't know if someone mentioned this before but the OP lyrics just crack me up. Especially after this episode. A peek into future relationship complications, perhaps? Then from who's point of view is it singing from...

The triangle in the song is actually Minmei-Hikaru-Misa .

Originally Posted by withered_joy

Anyhow, I haven't watched Macross Zero (or any other Macross stuff, for the matter--mainly because I have a distaste for...unpleasant out-of-style art) before so I'm sort of lost whenever there is some reference, and judging from the comments posted here I think there are some huge references...like...the entire movie stuff. I shall proceed to clear out my confusion.

The movie was sometimes shot-for-shot with the Macross Zero OVA, but I don't think that you're missing all that much so far. Nobody really knows the fates of the any of the characters there with the sole exception of Roy. Time will tell whether there's going to be any significance beyond what we've already seen.

I don't know if I can exactly recommend Macross Zero on the quality of the story, but the artwork is still some of the very best out there. It came out in 2005, so it isn't even close to being outdated.

[Hypernova]

Originally Posted by withered_joy

Don't know if someone mentioned this before but the OP lyrics just crack me up. Especially after this episode. A peek into future relationship complications, perhaps? Then from who's point of view is it singing from... This is pure speculation or over-analyzing anyway but to hell with it I think sounds like what Ranka would be thinking. Though I must say, I am not participating in any shipping stuff. Be it with Ranka or Sheryl I think both girls have their merits and faults. The interaction is interesting, however. Also, is it just me who thinks that maybe Nanase also has a thing for hime-sama? She seems to take some particular notice of him. Maybe I'm just delusional after Sheryl's casual tease in ep 8, but regardless it's obvious she has no chance, not being a major character and all. I don't know if I want to see complications between Nanase and Ranka over romantic issues anyway. So I'm going to think I'm just over-analyzing.

To tell the truth, I was quite put off by the preview episode of Macross F. I just absolutely LOATH damsel-in-distress crap. The scene with Ranka just sitting there being vulnerable to attack just made me want to punch her into normal survival instincts. Good thing that I reconsidered and decided to watch the series three-days ago and realized her inability to react properly to danger had to do with a past trauma. I also didn't quite like Sheryl at first but after a while she proved herself to be a very interesting character. I like her strength of character and all, very independent and definitely not clingy. It's also hilarious to see her interact with hime-sama. In the end, a Queen is a few ranks higher up than a Princess, no?

Anyhow, I haven't watched Macross Zero (or any other Macross stuff, for the matter--mainly because I have a distaste for...unpleasant out-of-style art) before so I'm sort of lost whenever there is some reference, and judging from the comments posted here I think there are some huge references...like...the entire movie stuff. I shall proceed to clear out my confusion.

Or just read this post
http://www.darkmirage.com/2008/06/06...ross-frontier/

[Falken1]

I wouldn't be too surprised to see Alto's father realise he was a stunt double for the underwater scene and contact him saying "Hey so you're still acting?"

[CaptGloval]

Ranka can do stunts because she's quarter Zentradi.