Being Open Minded.

[kujoe]

My favorites tend to be a mix of many things. Titles such as RahXephon and Twelve Kingdoms, which have elements that could belong in other genres, are still my current top two. (Actually, I really wouldn't know how to exactly categorize them, and perhaps that's a good thing.) Most of the time, romance isn't the main priority for me—unless if I actually wanted to watch one—but if it just happens to be there and done well, I'm all for it.

[DaFool]

npal...I could've sworn I saw you on some harem boards...nevermind :P

Just to clarify the appeal of goddess / other-world girlfriends in shonen romance...yes they are high social status being otherworldly, but because they are otherworldly they are not known to be of high status in this world. Thus they have no qualms about being with what everyone else believes to be a loser. Also, having an infinite amount of magical power, they do not need the stewardship expected of men, and can even be their protector and defender, even.

Now come to think of it, I's Pure... now that girl is alpha material, should she exercise her talents she will go far. I feel sorry for the guy because it will be a continuous struggle to be good enough for her.

Now, the struggle to become 'good enough' for someone...I think might not be explored too much, as if people are just born alpha.

Originally Posted by Kiomi

As a girl,Ive also noticed that in Echii the men are interested in girls for what they physicly can do more then how they are on the inside. If they are cute, Can they cook, How she stands. Its almost as if the guy knows the girl inside to out by just the first glance. Then after a man looks at her from the outside he will get to know her from the inside. AND THAT THIS IS NOT BAD, this is simply how men are and look at it in a more positive way. Many Women will be like OH THAT PERVERT. When he isn't....they are just naturally drawn to the way women look and grew up that way.

For Shojo, Its all about how the guys are on the inside. The Main character might end up falling for a hot guy, but it was never for how he looked. Its mostly how it is on the inside. Getting to know him, seeing his weakness, finding his soft spot. And the women seem to want to belief men will want to do the same. Men will never understand you unless you show him. I don't ever see a normal boy or man suddenly fall into a long sentence of love.

Well guys already know that women are mysterious so he prefer to keep them that way. He don't poke into her because he's afraid if he discover her 'core' she'll become limp and fade as a personality. Remember, hunter mentality---when the pursuit is gone, the fun stops. Similarly he doesn't like to be poked too much (i.e. discussing feelings, weeknesses, soft spot etc.) because he's afraid if she learns everything about him (which is very easy because men are supposedly less complex beings) she'll get bored then move on.

Now where did I learn all these things? Some girls who've had boyfriends (yep I try to get out of the dreaded FRIEND ZONE).

[npal]

Well, there's a difference between ecchi and fanservice. And the harem I'm watching aren't overly ecchi, or I detract points. I can't stand Girls Bravo though, if that's an indication of how much ecchi I can take .

[rooboy]

(Says the person with Shuffle and Nanoha littered in his signature).
It's fanservice when it doesn't bother you, ecchi when it does.

Originally Posted by physics223

I think I'm in the minority among guys when I say I enjoy little ecchi. Even when I was still a budding anime addict (I'm helpless right now), I always delighted in watching well-written stories dovetailed with excellent animation. Though I really didn't get the differences between the different types of anime - thanks, roo and leongsh - I seem to understand a little more now.

That's because there's very little correlation between what a show is about and whether it's shoujo, seinen, shounen or josei - one of the beauties of the manga industry is that in the same magazine I can read very different stories. They accept that not all young boys are the same, they're not all interested in reading the same thing. Similarly with young girls and shoujo.
There's also no correlation between story and ecchi fanservice. Something can have a good story and ecchi fanservice, or a poor story and no ecchi fanservice. Ultimately a show should be judged on it's individual merits (and usually actually is - if it's got dirty jokes and they're funny, people watch it. If it's not funny, they don't).
Also, DaFool is correct: females (especially in shoujo) are attracted to just as many externalities as males are ... they're just different externalities. This is part of the whole thing that Ouran High Host Club lampoons (in the same way that Magikano pokes fun at these conventions for male stories). Basically if you read more than three or four shoujo stories you realize that over 90% of the male characters that the female falls in love with are richest, most athletic, handsomest, most popular, and, frequently, the smartest people in the school. If I flip that around it is exactly the same perspective for a shounen romance (except the richest part - usually instead the female is identified as having a superior "feminine" talent, whether that's art, cooking, whatever).

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by kujoe

My favorites tend to be a mix of many things. Titles such as RahXephon and Twelve Kingdoms, which have elements that could belong in other genres, are still my current top two.

Rahxephon is Seinen (it's serialized in the same magazine as Black Lagoon),

12 Kingdoms I don't believe falls into a shoujo, shounen, etc classification. It's not based on a manga (it's a novel series - one that I believe Tokyopop is actually going to be bringing to the US), and I don't think the novel series was run in a serial novel magazine (but I could be wrong).

The point is: classifying things by shoujo, shounen, etc is silly because there's no such thing as a unifying theme that ties them together. It's only useful contextually when added with another genre: for example, shounen romance, shoujo drama, etc, etc.

[arias]

Originally Posted by Kiomi

Now if your a guy who read this, do you agree with what I said about echii, do you view things differently. (all people are diffrent)

If you were a girl who read this do you agree with what I wrote about in the Shojo section.

I really want to see how people view things, ^^. I really think people should be opened so, hey I thought why not make a post about this.

Single question: Are you Asian, and brought up in Asia?

It matters. I'll give a long post later.. just wanted to know this.

[DaFool]

I think I see where you're getting at. Fits in with who are the strongest supporters of moe. Shoujo being a precursor to moe, since it has cute young girl protagonists after all.

My observation, (now take it as a grain of salt), its mostly asian, asian-americans, etc, just by the nature of the fansubbers who work on such shows.

Anyways, really, shoujo heroes are hard to emulate, since they are good at everything. It's hard enough as it is to be good at something.

[ImClueless]

This thread is great and I especially like Dafool's analysis. This is my take on the male/ female targeted anime divide.

In response to the original poster's comment. The simple answer to the differences between anime targeted at males and females is SEX. It is said that just about everything we do is targeted towards the ultimate goal of procreation and to a certain extent it is true. Afterall, it has only been a few thousand years that humans have exited the cave-man stage, which does not erase millions of years of evolutionary behaviour (I knew those Ecology classes were good for somthing). Anime, as a human creation, is just a reflection of this fact.

Males and females have totally different reproductive strategies that are ultimately in conflict with one another. Males do not have to invest a lot of energy to sire a child, all he really needs to do is provide the sperm and sperm is cheap. Therefore it is in his best interest to impregnate as many females as possible. The criteria for a prototypical male in selecting female partners is as shown in anime. Fertility (as shown with voluptous curves) and mothering skills (cooking/cleaning etc). He does not really care about her personality or social status because that those factors willl not affect the survival rate of his offspring as much and since he, theoretically, has many offspring and cannot be 100% certain of the parentage anyway, the evolutionary man frankly does not care.


Females on the otherhand have a completely different reproductive strategy. They can only produce a liimited number of offspring and devotes enormous recources towards each one. Also, unlike with males she is 100% certain that every child she bears is hers Therefore her ultimate goal is to ensure that the father of her offspring has the best genes possible as well as the procurement of a "provider" to help ensure the survival of her offspring. This explains why in Shoujo, the male interest is often the best at everything. This is what females find instinctively attractive. Shoujo males are the ultimate provider since they have the social status which ensures plenty of resources can be devoted to her children and they obviously have good genes since they are physically fit and mentally acute.

Thus, since anime is really a form of entertainment targeted at a group of people rather than individuals, the use of these primal themes is very effective. There are always exceptions to the rule of course, such as the male posters here who have indicated they do not enjoy ecchi, but ultimately there are large numbers of guys who respond to that sort of thing and thats why ecchis are made. This ends my comment from a evolutionary biology point of view. (I got an A in that class Im proud )

[Soka-chan]

I don't see why you say that in shojos, girls never fall for the guy because he's handsome. That's EXACTLY what happens, she never gets to like him for anything but that. Seriously, the typical high school shojo is as frivolous as the typical harem shonen.

Then, there are the other shojos and shonens, where the characters are real people that are as interested by the physical appearance as in the phychological aspects of their to-be partners, like we in real life are. I mean, of course I won't go out with a guy who's an idiot, even if he looks like Johnny Depp, but neither I wil go out with a real nice, friendly and sweet guy who looks very ugly.
The thing is, people ARE frivolous when looking at other people, but when I'm reading a romantic story, I like to read mor ethan that, see them interested in the other for the looks and then fall for each other for the character's personality.

[Aiya Kasai]

I agree with some people...alot of times a girl will fall in love with a guy in a shojo....because the man is handsome.

It really annoys me when girls do that...and thats why i normally don't like anime girls. Hot Gimmick was like that....Hana Kimi was like that...and a whole bunch of others.

The only two that wasn't like that was Ouran Host Club...because...Haruhi isn't all like "OMG TAMAKI YOU ARE THE SEX!"...and the anime even makes fun of girls who act that way.

and Haruhi Suzumiya is like that too. Haruhi likes Kyon not because he is hot...but because he was different then allll the other guys in the highschool. Kyon isn't hot...and he is rediculusly average.....and thats a reason why I like the anime so much.

[Aoie_Emesai]

Originally Posted by Kiomi

I hope This is the right spot to post this, ^^ sorry if it isn't. (its about anime so it can't go into General Chat).

My reply to somone in another forum:
I really like being open minded about men's oppinions and womens. I really don't want to be a bitchy type of wife all husbands talk about. I can go from Love Hina (Negima) Midori no Himi, to Ouran Host Club and Hot Gimmick haha. If i actually fall inlove I don't want my life ruined later by misunderstandings ><. I think guys should try that more xD......watch really girly anime that way you can understand your girlfriend.
_
My brother usually watchs Echii, and He will usually ask me to watch them becuase he thinks its funny or good. I do end up watching alot of Echii and likeing it, So i tell him to watch some Shojo anime with me. Hahahaha he usually finds them Cheesy and stupid. The only one he has liked so far is Ouran Host Club.

As a girl,Ive also noticed that in Echii the men are interested in girls for what they physicly can do more then how they are on the inside. If they are cute, Can they cook, How she stands. Its almost as if the guy knows the girl inside to out by just the first glance. Then after a man looks at her from the outside he will get to know her from the inside. AND THAT THIS IS NOT BAD, this is simply how men are and look at it in a more positive way. Many Women will be like OH THAT PERVERT. When he isn't....they are just naturally drawn to the way women look and grew up that way.

For Shojo, Its all about how the guys are on the inside. The Main character might end up falling for a hot guy, but it was never for how he looked. Its mostly how it is on the inside. Getting to know him, seeing his weakness, finding his soft spot. And the women seem to want to belief men will want to do the same. Men will never understand you unless you show him. I don't ever see a normal boy or man suddenly fall into a long sentence of love.

I think if more women read Echii and more men saw Shojo's and come to a understanding the world would be a better place? hahaha.....i guess? xD

Now if your a guy who read this, do you agree with what I said about echii, do you view things differently. (all people are diffrent)

If you were a girl who read this do you agree with what I wrote about in the Shojo section.

I really want to see how people view things, ^^. I really think people should be opened so, hey I thought why not make a post about this.

******Oh and please don't flame, PLEASE!!!******

of course it's intellectual to be open minded, unlike the politicans we have. "only one choice is the correct choice, and that choice is my choice."

I read my sisters shoujo manga every once and a while and i suppose that shoujo manga is all about romance eh? "fuishigi yugi" "ultra maniac" "too many to name"

Still like nosaninwa says, you have to try different things, even if you may hate it. (yes im quoting him wrong). "this doesn't apply to food though, ill never eat seafood or mayo."

If being open minded means trying thigns you haven't quite done, just watch the discovery channel.

[Aiya Kasai]

Originally Posted by Ziv

*takes note*
could you give some more examples? I'm gonna be goin to college in a few months and first impressions are very important =P

lol! Hey if you want me talking about first expressions I have something for you...

I find flirting beyond annoying. Don't act fake...lord that is even more annoying that flirting. I mean yeah sure the rumors say that girls love poetry...and...roses...and....singing. I say screw that. If you think a girl is inteteresting...or may be someone you like then just go up and say hi...or find out something that she may find interesting and talk to her about it. If she acts all "meh: about it...then walk off...she's a jerk.

guys also do THAT alot of anime and sorts. "What should I do to impress her?" "No, I can't do thhhaatt". Oh noes oh noes. That's partly why I never understood Love Hina. I would go crazy if everytime I tripped...a girl would punch me through a wall (even though it is funny...haha).

Girls do it too! They wanna wear short skirts and...show off their boobs thinking that the quickest way to find their perfect guy. That's totally wrong. All that's gonna do is get some perv so stare at you, and then afterwards they complain because "Guys don't treat them right". If you like short skirts and boobie shirts then fine, but then don't complain.

I acctually think Ziv was kidding...but keep this in mind anyways...hahaha.

[npal]

^ That's why the rumors are rumors

Other than that, I agree, especially with the short skirt part. I mean, DUH, who do you hope to attract with that?

[Aiya Kasai]

Originally Posted by npal

^ That's why the rumors are rumors

Other than that, I agree, especially with the short skirt part. I mean, DUH, who do you hope to attract with that?

Haha.

Well I said all the because my dad always wants my brother to do something corny...or he wants me to like flash my boobs or something. *rolls eyes* My dad is weird....or he is desperate for us to get a boyrfriend/girlfriend.

[Aoie_Emesai]

Originally Posted by Aiya Kasai

Haha.

Well I said all the because my dad always wants my brother to do something corny...or he wants me to like flash my boobs or something. *rolls eyes* My dad is weird....or he is desperate for us to get a boyrfriend/girlfriend.

Flash your boobs? that's not right.

[npal]

Your dad's weird Depends on who you are. As it is, flashing boobs will attract certain kind of men more than others, which you may or may not like. Every behavior is bound to attract people who appeciate that behavior. So, either find out what your targeted group of people like or just be yourself.

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by Aiya Kasai

and Haruhi Suzumiya is like that too. Haruhi likes Kyon not because he is hot...but because he was different then allll the other guys in the highschool. Kyon isn't hot...and he is rediculusly average.....and thats a reason why I like the anime so much.

Of course Haruhi Suzumiya isn't shoujo either .....

This is going to be a fun thread

[Kiomi]

Originally Posted by kujoe

Granted, I haven't gone far with many shoujo romances, but personally I find them both comparable in a way. The difference is the focus or the aspect that gets the most attention in the end. Indeed, in ecchi the usual scenario would have the main guy get attracted or fascniated with the main heroine's looks at first, and from that point on he gets into the mix of learning more about her character and personality. What comes next? Problems, the usual comedy, rivals, so on and so forth.

From my limited experience from stuff like the usual Watase fare (just two titles if anyone's wondering, including Escaflowne and some Karekano as well) it's my opinion that the same is actually true in shoujo. The main girl, usually plain-looking but sweet—as opposed to the plain and simple-minded, often perverted shounen hero—is usually struck by the looks of the main love interest in the beginning. Not only by his looks, but his reputation among his peers usually makes quite the impression upon the girl as well—like falling for the smart and brave hearthrob who every guy wants to be, falling for the so-called "bad boy" personality, or getting impressed by what this "perfect" man is capable of doing. In this sense it's quite similar, wouldn't you think so?

Such first impressions are portrayed in a similar fashion as that of shounen, only with differing gender perspectives. In fact, it's quite interesting that you mention that the heroine falls for the "hot guy." The "inside" as you put it, gets fleshed out later on just like in shounen. The angst, the drama, the conflicts to their budding relationship and so on—which actually end up being comparable to the general pattern (wherein challenges are faced later on after the "she's hot!" phase) in your standard shounen romance...only less ecchi. The one thing that truly separates them is the seriousness or the manner in which the content is fleshed out, and from whose perspective.

Anyway, that's my personal opinion regarding this matter. But if anyone's wondering, I enjoyed the love story in RahXephon a lot while preferring the more dramatic, understated variety such as Tsukihime in general.

I must correct my self; I do see what most of you mean when in Shoujo, the girl will usually fall in love with a hot guy right away. I can see how both Echii and Shoujo are very similar to that matter. I personally don't ever fall for a character for how he looked in an anime. I adored Kyon in Haruhi Suzumiya because he has strong opinions even though it was sarcastic; he never changed for a woman. In Hot Gimmick I hated the hot guys; I liked the Otaku boy who watched a lot of anime. In Midori no Himi I was kind of turned off by the main character at first because he wanted a girlfriend to make the world a better place, and would do anything (change) to get a cute one. *sigh* sadly in real life I was hoping I could find a boy who had a very strong back bone and weren't so dependable on love like they do in Echii. Once again I was proven wrong because many men here happen to like Shoujo more, which was very surprising to me. So in conclusion, I think I based the topic I posted before about girls liking guys for the personality seems very off. Women do seem to like men for their social standing. ("oh the cutest boy in school!") And if you disagree post about it.

To DaFool: Thanks so much for posting that, it took me a while to read but I can fooly understand what you are talking about. I can see the reputation part, I can think back now to all the manga I have read and I now realize that the main guy was some high class male. Rich/talented/famous. I think that always really turned me off though ^^ .I didn't think that was fair for males because they can't fix that. And that plays into role of how guys are trying to impress girls... which seems to form another g/f b/f argument.

hahaha being bored and move on? I do see what you mean; a lot of women seem to work that way. For the mysterious, I am a very quiet girl... I don't know if I'm "Mysterious", but I would love if someone would try to get to know me and KNOW I’m not as how I seem. That I’m not mysterious..? Sometimes girls are mysterious because they don't know how to open up, and when you do you will either find a nice girl or a girl who has a dramatic fall and cry because her life isn't how she wanted it to be? To me it kind of reminds me of a new kitten because (unless you can't handle it) you can show her things in life that she's never known before. Like Yuki Nagato, she seems mysterious... but I’m sure if you really tried to get to know her you would see that she has much more and needs the "poking". For people who haven’t seen it, or don't like it, She slowly changes from a silent girl to more of a cute one (SLIGHTLY) at the end from friends and Kyon.

Arias: I am ....not Asian. I hope that doesn't take away from my post, I have to admit that before I make a post about this I should know much more about anime..Much much more. I am a learner right, I have to start somewhere.

Man what a long post, and I’m trying to sound intelligent And Ayia Kasai and I share the same dad. Our dad is weird.....so maybe that’s another reason why I made this post? xD

[Kiomi]

Originally Posted by rooboy666

Of course Haruhi Suzumiya isn't shoujo either .....

This is going to be a fun thread

Isn't it an Echii.... *sigh* I'm sorry...but i really didn't want the post to be about what anime tittles are what. That's not really...what I meant for it to be about anyways. People make mistakes? I was going to but more catergories up like Shounen (sp?), but I wanted to make it a bit more simple.

[npal]

Well, ok, let's say I might not watch as much shoujo as I think. I still think I refrain from overly ecchi stuff. (And Kaede's fanservice is not crude in Shuffle . Plus, I don't remember Shuffle -or any other harem anime I watch -being overly ecchi, like, say Girls Bravo. And was there ecchi or even fanservice in Nanoha?) I don't remember shoujo having any sort of fanservice or ecchi -unless I can't tell cause I'm a guy, but whatever- that's why I usually find it more appealing watching shoujo anime.

And yes, I'll say it again, Kiomi, I agree, your dad must be weird That's the first time I hear of a dad wanting his girls to flash boobs

Um... Could we define Ecchi and Shoujo, so that we know where we stand?