2013-01-13, 15:44 | Link #201 | ||
Classics never age
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Italy
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Then there's the big moe-ota crowd... Quote:
Which isn't all that surprising after all, given how it's supposed to be some sort of "prize" for all the "hard-work" you had to go through up to that point. |
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2013-01-13, 16:00 | Link #203 |
Last Engage
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida
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I'd never skip them, and in the context of this thread, I still consider them important. Event the way someone has sex can serve as characterization. No two routes have the same kind of angles or the same kind of fetishes. These things are fanservice, but they're fanservice with a point.
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2013-01-13, 16:03 | Link #204 | |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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2013-01-13, 16:05 | Link #205 |
Last Engage
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida
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I'd argue otherwise. Just the fact that the characters in the routes have different personalities, different fetishes, the lighting and camera angles of the CGs, the circumstances in which the characters are engaging in it. (Are they hiding out? Is it a lovers' wake up sex kind of thing? Are they drunk?), all of these things make the scenes unique. Just because something calls upon a base desire doesn't mean it lacks merit.
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2013-01-13, 16:09 | Link #206 |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Guys, can we get back to the topic of “anime’s sexual fanservice in serious action scenes”? If not, this thread will be no different than any other threads discussing about fanservice in a more general sense.
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2013-01-13, 16:18 | Link #207 | ||
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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You can predict the majority of them when such scenes will appear or worse a few of them had completely out of nowhere H-scenes that make me scratch my head.(btw i am not talking about nukiges) There are even some rare ones in which the characters act out of character in the H-scenes, while they act normally again in the main story. Quote:
I feel that some H-scenes break the flow of such a story and that is similar to some people's reaction to how ecchi fanservice seem to interrupt/distract serious action scenes. |
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2013-01-13, 16:20 | Link #208 | |
Last Engage
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida
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2013-01-13, 16:28 | Link #209 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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2013-01-13, 16:28 | Link #210 | |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Well the previous post of mine was my opinion of why i hold the ctrl key for most games in which the H-scenes are not relevant for the overall story. It's fine with me if you read all of them though. Also you don't need H-scenes to show how intimate a relationship has become. Some all ages VN do a great job at depicting that edit: i meant with my 2nd part of my previous post also contradictions in the main story. Like how the H-scenes in the recent Koiken Otome hardly effected the heroines, while a simple touch or kiss of the MC could make someone power up to uncontrollable high levels of magical powers in the main story. Last edited by hyl; 2013-01-13 at 16:46. |
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2013-01-13, 21:30 | Link #211 | ||||||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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In other words, because I thought your point of view seemed different and wanted to understand why you felt that way (and if others felt the same way). And a variety of views were presented about it. Quote:
(This thread was, again, at least for my part, trying to flesh out why you thought it was a problem.) Quote:
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Of course, there are shows that are heavily fanservice-driven and end up selling quite well. The recent To Love-Ru: Darkness would be an example of that. Obviously the fanservice is a big part of the pull, but it's also the characters, the universe, the sorts of situations involved, and yes even the "plot" such that it is. So just "adding fanservice" like a magic potion to make "otaku" buy your product doesn't work. Contrary to many assertions, anime collectors are a fairly discerning bunch; they're picky, even if their choices don't always make sense to some people with different tastes. And collectors aren't also a single uniform group that all wants the same thing, likes the same thing, and purchases the same things en masse. The ~35k people who bought SAO aren't necessarily related to the ~70k who bought Madoka Magica or the ~80k who bought Bakemonogatari, though there will clearly be some overlap. What collectors want isn't nearly so binary and they don't move as a uniform mass. It's dynamic, organic, and complex. If creators could figure out so easily what makes collectors tick, there wouldn't be nearly so many poorly-selling shows every single season year after year (covering pretty much all styles and target demographics). (Then again, it's worth making the note here that, similarly, Blu-Ray/DVD sales aren't everything, lest we fall into that trap as well.) Quote:
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I think the very key issue of this thread is realizing how everyone can see the same thing differently.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-01-13 at 21:40. |
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2013-01-13, 22:41 | Link #212 | ||||||
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I don't expect those who like it to stop liking it just because other people don't like it. But by the same token, those that dislike it aren't going to start liking it just because some other people do like it. Ultimately, this will probably have to be an "Agree to Disagree" sort of thing. Quote:
That was the first reply I received for my review of VRO's first episode. By my reading of it, it's saying "You clearly like yuri, so you must like the fanservice in VRO too". Quote:
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At a purely neutral and "simple fact" level, the defense may well have some validity to it. I tend to see otakus (i.e. Japanese hardcore anime fans, as I tend to use the term "otaku") in a netural sense (but I respect that most tend to use the term with a distinctly positive connotation, or unfortunately a very negative one). Sometimes I agree with otakus, sometimes I don't. I don't think they're "losers", and I think they have as much right to their tastes as anybody else does. And I respect how they drive this industry. Quote:
Even some people in the same fandom for a particular show will disagree sometimes. You see this a lot when it comes to character discussions, for example. At a most basic level, I advocate for what I like, and against what I don't like. I think most here are the same, and I think that's fine. Again, I'm fine with an amicable "agree to disagree", and I respect that different people have different tastes. But that's not going to change what I think of pervy camera angles in a serious action scene. For me, it's a negative. My opinion is that it detracts from the technical and cinematography quality of the action scene. Personally, it also creates a nasty "mood clash" for me. It's the lone element that made me drop Strike Witches, a show that I think I otherwise would have liked. So naturally I'm not going to be fond of this element. I mean, it's very rare for a lone element to actually ruin a show for me. This will probably be my last post on this topic. I think I've made my stance on this topic (and the reasoning behind it) pretty clear by now. If not, I'm fine with anybody PMing me for further clarification. With thanks given to you and the other Moderators, our PM boxes are now large enough for me to safely go this route if needbe.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2013-01-13 at 22:56. |
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2013-01-13, 23:49 | Link #213 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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(Incidentally, just as an example of the sorts of double-standards you see and why you might get that sort of accusation at first glance... There are certainly people who will (for example) absolutely rail against a show's "objective flaws" when it features a certain type of pairing they dislike, but then completely gloss-over/ignore the very same "flaws" when it features a different sort of pairing they happen to like. It's basically not so different from shipping; a sort of rose-coloured glasses. If you appear to be against something "on principle", it better be clear what the principle is... which is clear to you, but it may not seem so obvious at first glance for people who don't see it that way.) Quote:
Most of the times people make assertions like those you mention (there being too much <whatever>, or not enough shows like <x favourite show>), the insinuation is clearly "the world would be a better place if there were more of what I like" (and typically attached, less of what I don't like). That's not so very unreasonable to have as a personal opinion, I guess, because everyone is ultimately seeking their own enjoyment. But entertainment is driven primarily by demand as determined by sales. So you enter this sort of spiral argument. "Why aren't there more shows like the ones I like?" "Because not enough people are buying them." "Why aren't more people buying them? They're so good!" "Because it's not what the market is apparently seeking." "Why isn't the market seeking 'good works' anymore?" ...and, as you see, now it start degrading into "...because they have poor taste" and so on, and all sorts of wild one-dimensional stereotypes about how "otaku" are not significantly discerning as if they're a singular mass of "dumb", when they're actually a massive collection of individual collectors making individual purchase decisions for individual reasons that sometimes coincide (but often do not). In the end, each one of us can be a collector and join the so-called "otaku market". It's as easy (and as difficult) as investing your money into the shows you like by buying merchandise. So saying "why is there so much moe" or "why do we have so much of <x> and not enough of <y>" is of limited value as "criticism". All it really comes down to "why are my own tastes not aligned with those of the market at large any more?" (or "why are my tastes suddenly such a tiny niche?") and the answers are: because each person is different, and because times change. Does something selling well exempt the thing from criticism? No, of course not. But this is still a participatory project. It's sort of like lamenting that a sports team left your town because the market was too small and nobody bought tickets. I mean, it's a shame, but that isn't going to bring the team back either. Criticising your townsfolk for not sufficiently enjoying a sport you like is not really going to get you anywhere, but galvanizing the people who are disheartened by the loss to start supporting the things they do like to prevent it from happening again is more constructive. I do honestly think that people who argue that there are "no more good anime" either have extremely limited tastes, are too jaded, or simply aren't looking hard enough.
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