Gurren-Lagann - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll

[Malintex_Terek]

Well, let's put it this way.

If you stood in the sun for seven years at twenty four hours per day (hypothetically speaking, let's just say the sun is in a fixed position in the celestial sphere - eternal day) would there not be some biological effects on your body? Sun-burn? Cooked flesh? Skin cancer?

Boota's been exposed to Simon, the man with enough power to probably classify him as a Spiral Knight in antiquity, for seven years straight, and hung around the Gurren Gang for the duration of the rebellion against Lord Genome as well, when the most spiral energy was exerted.

Gurren didn't need to create a portfolio to adjust the spiral engine to match Boota's level of output, either. He just jumped in and started charging the machine - it's possible he's had this power for a while and no one has noticed. I mean, his energy battery is positively huge if he's enough to substitute for Simon.

[Sent]

Episode dropped a little for me

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek

Ehh, well, we didn't see much of a transformation, did we? Just sprouting arms, legs, and a pair of jagged shades. One detail of super robot shows is that robots with very detailled transformations from vehicle/creature are typically done so because they are very easily made into toys. GL pretty much eschews this since the show frequently violates the law of conservation of matter, but the transformations are still cool, though I wouldn't count Super Galactic's as one of the best.

The Gunbuster scene was great, though. I only wish Super Galactic did something to demonstrate how tough it is and not just look tough.

I think i was riding a high from the emotional effects of the episode. If you think about the time frames in which everything it happen it was very close together which is why the episode also seemed to go fast for me. We a huge events occure back to back and with the Kittans farewell we went right into the transformation combined with the operatic music the scene just drew me in. I should probably repharse what is said, but i think from an emotional standpoint its been a long time since i got that hyped over a tranformation. I think we will get a chance to see what Super Galactic can do *hopefully*

[Mr. DJ]

Shouta

But what makes him more important than the rest of the B-Squad?
My issue isn't really with Simon thinking highly of Kittan, he should. It's that the events up to that point really don't show how important Kittan is to him or the series. A slightly more personal connection between the two somehow would've made more sense and made a bigger impact on the viewer.

Ichigo didn't need much of a reason to go save Rukia besides "he owes her" and he only knew her for...a couple months? before she was taken back to Soul Society. Simon on the other hand, has known Kittan for several years.

Anywho...I also think that Simon's sunglasses were kinda..'meh' it should of stopped at the Kamina look.

[Nvis]

The "sizes" of these mechs confuse me now.

I was particularly confused when they had "Space"-versions of their Ganmen.
Space King Kittan(when it left the mouth of the Cathedral Terra, should be the size of the Arc-Gurren Lagann (if you looked at an earlier ep. Leeron showed the size differences of the GL, Arc-GL, and C-T).

But the Space King Kitten didn't really seem that big in the Kittan/Gimmy conversation. If it's the size of Arc-GL, it's suppose to be able to support 300,000 humans. A that's pretty big.

Now when they showed the Chouginga GL, it's so small compared to the Anti-spirals, yet it's supposed to be the size of the moon. Previous episode showed Arc-GL attacking the same Anti-spiral ship, and seemed like the same size as Chouginga......

*head explodes.

[Archer]

Originally Posted by Nvis

The "sizes" of these mechs confuse me now.

I was particularly confused when they had "Space"-versions of their Ganmen.
Space King Kittan(when it left the mouth of the Cathedral Terra, should be the size of the Arc-Gurren Lagann (if you looked at an earlier ep. Leeron showed the size differences of the GL, Arc-GL, and C-T).

But the Space King Kitten didn't really seem that big in the Kittan/Gimmy conversation. If it's the size of Arc-GL, it's suppose to be able to support 300,000 humans. A that's pretty big.

Now when they showed the Chouginga GL, it's so small compared to the Anti-spirals, yet it's supposed to be the size of the moon. Previous episode showed Arc-GL attacking the same Anti-spiral ship, and seemed like the same size as Chouginga......

*head explodes.

During the conversation, you actually saw the regular King Kittan, while the Space King Kittan loomed in the background.

Additionally, the previous episode also showed that the Chouginga Dai-Gurren was nowhere even near the size of the Anti-Spiral ship. And really, I can't see how you could even see it that way.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Nvis

The "sizes" of these mechs confuse me now.

I was particularly confused when they had "Space"-versions of their Ganmen.
Space King Kittan(when it left the mouth of the Cathedral Terra, should be the size of the Arc-Gurren Lagann (if you looked at an earlier ep. Leeron showed the size differences of the GL, Arc-GL, and C-T).

But the Space King Kitten didn't really seem that big in the Kittan/Gimmy conversation. If it's the size of Arc-GL, it's suppose to be able to support 300,000 humans. A that's pretty big.

Now when they showed the Chouginga GL, it's so small compared to the Anti-spirals, yet it's supposed to be the size of the moon. Previous episode showed Arc-GL attacking the same Anti-spiral ship, and seemed like the same size as Chouginga......

*head explodes.

well, to help you a little bit:
-during the conversation in 25, Kittan was just looking at the normal King Kittan, with only the Space KK's eyes visible in the background (and god knows how far away that was)

-Arc-Gurren wasn't even the size of one of those Anti-Spiral ship's pupil's, even with spiral energy surrounding him. CCGL is like the size of a nose? hard to tell from the angles this week.

-Space Gamen are somewhat smaller than Arc GL...though not by much.

-in the end, it's all just to look cool. not like much else in this show has ever made sense, right?

[Coreyart]

i just want to know what is spiral power and how did simon/kamina get it while most dont have it. Maybe it has something to do with the coredrill. Keep watching i guess

[Malintex_Terek]

Originally Posted by Nvis

The "sizes" of these mechs confuse me now.

I was particularly confused when they had "Space"-versions of their Ganmen.
Space King Kittan(when it left the mouth of the Cathedral Terra, should be the size of the Arc-Gurren Lagann (if you looked at an earlier ep. Leeron showed the size differences of the GL, Arc-GL, and C-T).

But the Space King Kitten didn't really seem that big in the Kittan/Gimmy conversation. If it's the size of Arc-GL, it's suppose to be able to support 300,000 humans. A that's pretty big.

I put together this a while back for /m/ to put the sizes into context (this was before the Chou Ginga Gurren-Lagann update to gainax.co.jp) but it hasn't been updated for a while because no new .gifs have been added onto the gurren-lagann.net website. It's doesn't say anything about the Space Ganmen but it should give you a vague idea. The point of reference are the hand-sizes and the Daiganzan is oversized in comparison to Tepperin because of its pose.

Originally Posted by Nvis

Now when they showed the Chouginga GL, it's so small compared to the Anti-spirals, yet it's supposed to be the size of the moon. Previous episode showed Arc-GL attacking the same Anti-spiral ship, and seemed like the same size as Chouginga......

We have no reference for Cathedral Terra versus the moon, really. Firstly, we don't know if the Null Moon is the same size as the real moon. Secondly, what the Null Moon redistributed its mass into a different shape, so the same "amount" is there even if Cathedral Terra looked longer than the Null Moon.

Thirdly, we have no reference point for Chou Ginga Gurren-Lagann aside from the Buddha Statue Ganmen, which are of unknown celestial body size (some claimed they were Earth sized but there's no reference point for that) or even a reference point against Chou Ginga Dai Gurren. All we know is, Chou Ginga Gurren-Lagann is tiny compared with the Buddha Statue Ganmen but it's probably far, far, far more powerful.

Originally Posted by Coreyart

i just want to know what is spiral power and how did simon/kamina get it while most dont have it. Maybe it has something to do with the coredrill. Keep watching i guess

"potential of evolution". It's a metaphysical property of spiral DNA that can be tapped using willpower and "spiral engines". When I was first trying to understand the concept, I thought of plants and how plants are "producers" in the grand scheme of the universe and creatures like humans are "consumers". Well, let's just hypothesize humans are "producers" too, but what they give off as a byproduct doesn't exist in the physical world, but the metaphysical one, and entities or objects that can interact on this metaphysical level can harness that power (like the Spiral Death Machine and, again, the Spiral Engines). I'd call it potential metaphysical energy when not in use and kinetic metaphysical energy when we actually see the green glow coming out of people.

Why Simon is the only one able to use the Core Drill is somewhat of a mystery. It could be connected with his unusually high spiral energy, but there are others in the series who are powerful as well and they apparently can't use it. Mark of the Spiral Knight, perhaps? Lagann chooses its pilot, the pilot does not choose Lagann? No real idea on this one.

[Dave1988]

Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek

Why Simon is the only one able to use the Core Drill is somewhat of a mystery. It could be connected with his unusually high spiral energy, but there are others in the series who are powerful as well and they apparently can't use it. Mark of the Spiral Knight, perhaps? Lagann chooses its pilot, the pilot does not choose Lagann? No real idea on this one.

I'd say that when Simon found the Core Drill his Spiral signature was imprinted into the Core Drill hence making Simon the only one able to use it.

[Coreyart]

yeah but simon wasnt the first one to use it, the spiral knights were.

Also, Im guessing that the kid from the preview is kamina since simon has never been to the surface before as a kid before lagann. Simon is just like Kamina as an adult, so im guessing as a kid they were similar in some ways too.

[musashiken]

Originally Posted by Coreyart

yeah but simon wasnt the first one to use it, the spiral knights were.

Also, Im guessing that the kid from the preview is kamina since simon has never been to the surface before as a kid before lagann. Simon is just like Kamina as an adult, so im guessing as a kid they were similar in some ways too.

There's no solid proof that there is someone who used Lagann in the past. Even if there is, due to the long absence of a pilot, the previous spiral signature has been long expired. And when Simon found the core drill, it immediately registered his Spiral power signature. Don't forget that underground humans have a tendency to dig out into the open because of their spiral nature. For Simon who is an expert digger, he has been using his Spiral powers for a long time, just not for the right cause.

Anyway the rifling section in Gainax's GL official site has the explanation for how the Ganmen work with Spiral power. If you can't understand Japanese, try browsing through the spoiler thread.

[Blayze]

I have one thing to say about this episode.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../LipsOfGar.jpg

[USB500]

I think I screwed myself by skipping the rest of the episodes to get to this.

Nevertheless to say, Kittan is, next to Kamina, the most GAR Gurren Brigade member I've come to known. And the two minutes of awesomeness made me crying manly tears.

God bless the King indeed.

[Malintex_Terek]

Originally Posted by musashiken

There's no solid proof that there is someone who used Lagann in the past. Even if there is, due to the long absence of a pilot, the previous spiral signature has been long expired. And when Simon found the core drill, it immediately registered his Spiral power signature. Don't forget that underground humans have a tendency to dig out into the open because of their spiral nature. For Simon who is an expert digger, he has been using his Spiral powers for a long time, just not for the right cause.

I'd say it's pretty plausible Simon wasn't Lagann's first pilot, Lagann type Ganmen are rarer and more valuable than typical Ganmen, it would only make sense for as many of them as possible to be in combat. The origins of Simon's Lagann are rather obscure, though - did it fall from Cathedral Terra down to Earth, was it made there, where did it travel, etc.

One also has to take note there's a positive correlation between the possessor of a core drill and spiral power. Genome and Simon are the biggest power houses in the entire show, with Genome's aura alone enough to power Lazengann, Tepperin, and the Ganmen armies against another army and Gurren-Lagann powered by four spiral beings (Simon, the heavy hitter, Rossiu, Nia, and Boota, provided Boota could do something at that point). In my opinion he was flattering Simon in fifteen by claiming Simon had more power than him, thus far that hasn't appeared to be the case IMO. >_>

[ashlay]

^well, Simon can power the Arc Gurren and even the Cathedral Terra pretty much all by his lonesome.

seeing as how both ships were made to house a huge number of spiral beings, I'm not so sure Lord Genome had that kind of power (seems silly if he believed he could support all their abilities by himself) of course that's probably less true with CT, since it functions as a base/war machine, but certainly something like Arc GL had no other reason for housing people.

[musashiken]

I'd rather think that Simon has more potential in Spiral Power than Lord Genome. Sure Genome could activate so many things at once, but when he started to fight with Simon, who's to say that he wasn't using some kind of amplifier (remember the little girls that turned to core drills to activate Razengann?) or that he simply just cut off his Spiral energy and routed to back up energy supply to energize Teppelin and etc?

Simon probably do not know how to optimize his "multitasking" usage of Spiral power in episode 15, but in terms of strength, he blasted a hole in Lord Genome. I think that's pretty much proof of his Spiral Power strength.

[WALAOA]

KITTAN IS TOO GAR!! THIS IS THE BEST ANIME IN 2007. The scene with kittan moved me . I hope no one will die anymore in this series. After seeing the swirl in kittan eyes when he reached peak of his spiral power, i wonder will simon eyes turn into something similar after he reached his maximun spiral potential

[VooXoo]

This episode is both perfect and painful.

I want the OST now.




ONE MACHINE RIVALING GOD




Damned kiss of death, someone rip that lips apart please.

[Grey]

Humnn, I enjoyed the previous episode more. I think the impact of Kittan's final moments was probably ruined for me by that singing. I didn't mind it later on, but it was inadequate for that moment. Perhaps it would have been better if it were more muted, or if it had greater instrumental accompaniment. And damn that vibrato.

Nevertheless, it was still quite an awesome episode. Here's for hoping they maintain the awesomeness for the final two episodes. (Though I'll be rolling around giddy with amusement if the final episodes involve some crazy mind**** and they kill off the remaining characters or something. That would be hilarious.)