Kyoto Animation: Studio discussion, speculation, and whatnot.

[Tempester]

I haven't played the game myself, but from what I've heard, a proper Little Busters TV anime adaptation would require at least 36, if not 48 episodes. That would be a massive project for Kyoani (although not impossible in the least), and I'm not sure if they're willing to undertake it in this economic crisis so they might just be playing safe by expanding on existing animated properties such as Haruhi and working on definite profits such as K-On and Nichijou.

Don't worry too much though. I'm fairly optimistic that we will see a Little Busters anime in some shape or form in the future.

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Based on how Disappearance did in theaters and on DVD sales, I should imagine that KyoAni turned a net profit on that.

Not to mention that they made plenty of money on K-On!! back in 2010 too.

Plus, are you suggesting that a Little Busters anime wouldn't sell well?

Given the money they must have sunk into making Disappearance as pretty as it is in the first place, sure they might have turned a net profit, but I imagine it wouldn't be a lot. I have no concrete numbers, but I'd imagine Disappearance might have taken most of their K-ON profits.

And we all know how much budget KyoAni blows on making their Key adaptations as pretty as they are. I can totally see them doing Nichijou just to make sure they have enough budget to do whatever they plan to do next properly, be it Little Busters, or on an outside chance, the next FMP. Who knows?

And I don't know how I suggested that Little Busters wouldn't sell.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

Given the money they must have sunk into making Disappearance as pretty as it is in the first place, sure they might have turned a net profit, but I imagine it wouldn't be a lot. I have no concrete numbers, but I'd imagine Disappearance might have taken most of their K-ON profits.

And we all know how much budget KyoAni blows on making their Key adaptations as pretty as they are. I can totally see them doing Nichijou just to make sure they have enough budget to do whatever they plan to do next properly, be it Little Busters, or on an outside chance, the next FMP. Who knows?

So do you think that Nichijou will sell like K-On? Just want to get people's takes there.

I have to admit I know little about Nichijou (other than it's a 4Koma adaptation and what I took from watching it's first episode).

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So do people here think that Nichijou will sell like K-On? Just want to get people's takes there.

I have to admit I know little about Nichijou (other than it's a 4Koma adaptation and that I watched it's first episode).

Sell like K-On? Who knows, I won't count on it. Become a profit? Extremely likely.

[Random32]

Originally Posted by Tempester

I haven't played the game myself, but from what I've heard, a proper Little Busters TV anime adaptation would require at least 36, if not 48 episodes. That would be a massive project for Kyoani (although not impossible in the least), and I'm not sure if they're willing to undertake it in this economic crisis so they might just be playing safe by expanding on existing animated properties such as Haruhi and working on definite profits such as K-On and Nichijou.

Don't worry too much though. I'm fairly optimistic that we will see a Little Busters anime in some shape or form in the future.

I would say 50+ episodes minimum. LB is longer than CLANNAD, CLANNAD got 50+ episodes, and I still felt it could use a couple more episodes.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So do you think that Nichijou will sell like K-On? Just want to get people's takes there.

I have to admit I know little about Nichijou (other than it's a 4Koma adaptation and what I took from watching it's first episode).

Nichijou selling like K-On, probably not. Nichijyou selling more than a Key adaptation or more FMP, most definitely.

[RegalStar]

The biggest problem with an LB! adapation though, is that its world is constructed in such a way that it's very, very hard to express in a linear storyline (without giving away the "secret of the world" at least).

[Ithekro]

Nichijou doesn't have the music angle (at this point) to draw in k-On sized sales. But that could change at any time. (I recall people being kind of not sold on K-On until "Don't Say Lazy" started playing).

[brocko]

I think Lucky Star and the likes would be a more suitable comparison for Nichijou than K-On. So however many units Lucky Star, Pani Pony Dash and Azumanga sold, that'll probably be a good yardstick for expected Nichijou sales.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto

PS: Kyoto Animation will do their own take on Legend of the Galactic Heroes, except all the characters are 14 year old girls. Oh, and it airs on 12/21/12.

And about a trillionth of the content.

As for the current state of the company...... pretty much describes it. I mean they aren't the only company that gives but they could have long since expanded their brand and have instead basically been churning out very similar shows for a while now, each one progressively more controversial than the last, with the die hards always citing whatever it is as top notch material and everyone else kind of maintaining a faint interest or becoming increasingly critical. I'd compare them to the video game company Koei as the company they have the most in common with right now.

I can also easily see them relying on their super hardcore base for the rest of the companies existence and pretty much putting out love it or hate pieces for quite some time into the future.

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

Given the money they must have sunk into making Disappearance as pretty as it is in the first place, sure they might have turned a net profit, but I imagine it wouldn't be a lot. I have no concrete numbers, but I'd imagine Disappearance might have taken most of their K-ON profits.

And we all know how much budget KyoAni blows on making their Key adaptations as pretty as they are. I can totally see them doing Nichijou just to make sure they have enough budget to do whatever they plan to do next properly, be it Little Busters, or on an outside chance, the next FMP. Who knows?

And I don't know how I suggested that Little Busters wouldn't sell.

I think it's fair to mention that unless somebody has a spreadsheet of their finances (and if they do it would awesome if they'd post it) then in fact nobody actually knows how much budget Kyoani blows on anything.

Anyway as for their newest show Nichijou, I haven't read the manga and don't plan on watching any more of the show than the five minutes I already did, but I think I can pretty much predict where it's going to go. You're probably going to get a few more episodes of the zany wackiness seen in the first episode, there'll probably be a beach episode in there somewhere, an episode about going shopping, an episode where they take a school field trip somewhere (probably Kyoto), an episode where they go to some sort of maid cafe or popular otaku destination, and at least one episode where they celebrate some sort of holiday or festival. Somewhere around the halfway mark they'll probably introduce a new character (possibly a younger female, but definitely a female), there will probably be a music video inserted into an episode at some point featuring all the characters doing something cutesy or zany, and near the end there will probably be a little bit of mini-drama with one of the girls suffering from some easily solvable problem that'll very quickly resolve itself and everything will go back to normal until the very last episode which will be extremely sentimental in order to give the viewer a feeling of separation anxiety now that the show is over. Immediately cue an announcement about an extra episode or two on the last Blu-Ray(s) and call it a broadcast.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So do you think that Nichijou will sell like K-On? Just want to get people's takes there.

I have to admit I know little about Nichijou (other than it's a 4Koma adaptation and what I took from watching it's first episode).

Originally Posted by brocko

I think Lucky Star and the likes would be a more suitable comparison for Nichijou than K-On. So however many units Lucky Star, Pani Pony Dash and Azumanga sold, that'll probably be a good yardstick for expected Nichijou sales.

Pani Poni Dash average 8.5K per volume, Azumanga 25.6K (but was released in 8-ish episode volumes rather than the usual two-three episode volumes, which may skew things), and 29.1Kfor Lucky Star. Compare to 43.4K for K-On's first season and 37.8K for the second.

Personally, I don't see Nichijou reaching the same heights as K-On!... breaking through a certain sales level requires the show taking a life of its own and basically becoming a symbol of otakudom. While Kyoto doesn't have a monopoly on this ability (See Bakemonogatari with Hitagi, Nadeko, and Renai Circulation, or Macross Frontier with Ranka and Sheryl), but it has been consistent about creating new symbols with its shows.

Comparing to Kyoto's most successful symbols (Haruhi/Yuki/Hare Hare Yukai and Yui/Mio/Azusa/Don't Say Lazy), I can't see anything in Nichijou that looks to achieve that looks like it'll be symbolic. And even Lucky Star had that going for it (Konata/Kagami/Motekke Serafuku, although it's probably a good idea not to try and imitate that combo right now anyway because Kirino and Kuroneko would be such juggernauts in any "one of us/sarcastic straight woman" duo battle at the moment). I fully expect the show to make it well into the 20K area, but if Kyoto wants to make it go higher, they have their work cut out for them.

(Wild card: Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. Given the massive deconstruction that just visited on the magical girl genre, I fully expect that there's a market for a moe "reconstruction" right about now - and where better to start than the 4koma genre's roots in Azumanga Diaoh? I didn't much care for the OVA, but I think Nichijou episode 1 has done a better job than anything else Kyoto has done at capturing what made Azumanga so great.)

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by acejem

I'm really sick of the "4 girls ensemble with cute girls doing cute things" formula.

First, K-On was focused on a 5 girls ensemble and second calling Nichijou a "girls ensemble with cute girls doing cute things" is absurd to judge a show by 1 episode and an OVA as I am fairly sure it's going to be more of a comedy than moe show, even if does have a "3 girl ensemble".

And personally I could care less what Kyo-ani decides to genre-wise do as long they put their effort in to making the series good, since I've enjoyed every series I've watched by them so far. Not that I would mind seeing them adapt Little Busters.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

Given the money they must have sunk into making Disappearance as pretty as it is in the first place, sure they might have turned a net profit, but I imagine it wouldn't be a lot. I have no concrete numbers, but I'd imagine Disappearance might have taken most of their K-ON profits.

I find it incredibly unlikely that Disappearance was a sunk cost based on box office success and dvd sales alone. It was too damn successful.

[Archon_Wing]

I also can't imagine KyoAni spent all that money out of their goodness of their hearts, contrary to what some may believe. They were obviously anticipating high profits or they wouldn't have cared.

Surely Endless Eight did not come from their hearts; it came from another orifice. And look how well that sold.

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

I also can't imagine KyoAni spent all that money out of their goodness of their hearts, contrary to what some may believe. They were obviously anticipating high profits or they wouldn't have cared.

Surely Endless Eight did not come from their hearts; it came from another orifice. And look how well that sold.

I agree, but it's worth mentioning Kyo-ani's hands were tied so to speak on the whole Endless Eight thing, since it was due to Kadokawa's influence that it was made as such, iirc.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Konakaga

First, K-On was focused on a 5 girls ensemble and second calling Nichijou a "girls ensemble with cute girls doing cute things" is absurd to judge a show by 1 episode and an OVA as I am fairly sure it's going to be more of a comedy than moe show, even if does have a "3 girl ensemble".

And personally I could care less what Kyo-ani decides to genre-wise do as long they put their effort in to making the series good, since I've enjoyed every series I've watched by them so far. Not that I would mind seeing them adapt Little Busters.

If you want to be nitpicky about the number of girls in an ensemble go ahead, but doesn't change the fact that its still "cute girls doing cute things". I would still count shows like Azumanga Daioh and Pani Poni Dash as "cute girls doing cute things", just in those cases, it also has a "lulrandom" element. I don't have a problem with studios going for cashcow series once in a while, but when they devote nearly all their energy into it, it is seriously asking for it to be criticized.

And I would love to see KyoAni do something different other than Key adpations or 4koma adaptions, but the problem they do not. Other than Key adaptations or 4 koma adaptations, they are riding the success of their Haruhi franchise. I think it's fairly safe to say they ditched FMP at this point.

@0utf0xZer0: At the current rate, I'm fairly sure Madoka Magica is going to beat Bakemonogatari in terms of TV DVD/Blu-ray sales. I forgot where it was, but I remember cited facts that Madoka Magica is the most discussed series ever on 2chan aside from Haruhi Suzumiya. And the series hasn't even finished.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Konakaga

I agree, but it's worth mentioning Kyo-ani's hands were tied so to speak on the whole Endless Eight thing, since it was due to Kadokawa's influence that it was made as such, iirc.

But the worst thing is that it worked. So Kadokawa was right. After all, the fans won't mind being crapped on, as long as you put an effort every now and then.

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by acejem

If you want to be nitpicky about the number of girls in an ensemble go ahead, but doesn't change the fact that its still "cute girls doing cute things". I would still count shows like Azumanga Daioh and Pani Poni Dash as "cute girls doing cute things", just in those cases, it also has a "lulrandom" element. I don't have a problem with studios going for cashcow series once in a while, but when they devote nearly all their energy into it, it is seriously asking for it to be criticized.

Just when are you looking at to say they're putting all their energy into 4-koma series?
2007: Lucky Star, Clannad
2008: Clannad After Story, Munto: The Movie, Lucky Star OVA
2009: K-On!, Melancholy of Haruhi-chan Suzumiya, Munto TV, Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu (2009), Clannad OVA
2010: K-On!!, Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya
2011: Nichijou, K-On Movie[?], K-On!! OVA, ???

I mean sure they have devoted significant effort to that type of series, but I'd hardly call it all of it. If you notice their somewhat recent attempt at a different genre series, Munto, hardly has it's existence noticed compared to most of their series . This year is more than most other years compartively though; assuming they have nothing else planned which it's a bit early to say that is they case.

[Ithekro]

We also have no idea what or if they will try to do something in October.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Konakaga

Just when are you looking at to say they're putting all their energy into 4-koma series?
2007: Lucky Star, Clannad
2008: Clannad After Story, Munto: The Movie, Lucky Star OVA
2009: K-On!, Melancholy of Haruhi-chan Suzumiya, Munto TV, Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu (2009), Clannad OVA
2010: K-On!!, Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya
2011: Nichijou, K-On Movie[?], K-On!! OVA, ???

I mean sure they have devoted significant effort to that type of series, but I'd hardly call it all of it. If you notice their somewhat recent attempt at a different genre series, Munto, hardly has it's existence noticed compared to most of their series .

Firstly, I said they nearly devote all their energy and secondly I said it was for both Key and 4koma adaptations. Let's have a look:

Full Metal Panic Fumoffu - LN spinoff. Slice of life/comedy.
Full Metal Panic S2 - Something different.
Air - Key
Lucky Star - 4koma
Clannad - Key
Clannad AS - Key
Munto Movie - Something different
Lucky Star OVA - 4koma
K-on! - 4koma
Haruhi S2 - LN (riding on success of the 1st season)
Munto TV - Something different
Clannad OVA - Key
K-on!! - 4koma
Haruhi Movie - LN (see above)
Nichijou - 4koma

I can see mostly a lot of 4koma/Key or series that are sequels. Munto was the exception and not the norm. Truly this is not variety. In all seriousness, KyoAni is just as bad as Sunrise with its mecha when it comes to variety. Have a look at what other studios such as Madhouse, J C Staff, Bones, Gainax, Gonzo, Pierrot etc have produced. Their list and history is MUCH more diverse.

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by acejem

I can see mostly a lot of 4koma/Key or series that are sequels. Munto was the exception and not the norm. Truly this is not variety. In all seriousness, KyoAni is just as bad as Sunrise with its mecha when it comes to variety. Have a look at what other studios such as Madhouse, J C Staff, Bones, Gainax, Gonzo, Pierrot etc have produced. Their list and history is MUCH more diverse.

Studios such as Bones, J.C. staff, Madhoue, or such simply have more variety because they're able to make more series per year, look at any given year and they'll each have made at least 5 series generally, compared to Kyo-ani doing at most 5 a year, which tells me they probably don't[or didn't in the past] have the resources to produce that many series a year, which doesn't help the lack of variety, nor does the fact that they're only relatively new in starting to create their own series compared your examples[prior to 2003 Kyoto Animations only had involvement in series and didn't produce their own].