Fate/stay night Game discussion (Warning: Spoilers)

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

I noticed plot holes (or at least uncomprehansable behaviour):

1. Why didn't Archer just kill Illya while Beserker was occupied with Saber in UBW?

2. Why didn't Shirou call Saber with his command spell when Rin attacked him?

Those are perfectly in-character.

1. Archer is Shirou and Shirou loves Illya as a little sister. Furthermore, we know his inability to save Illya from her fate was a huge factor in why he ended up the way he did.

2. It's Shirou. He'd rather fight and take a beating himself than call for help and have Saber do it in his stead. Hell, Archer himself mocks Shirou for doing that.

[mirakura]

1) Archer is supposedly from Ilya's route

2) Cos Shirou's an idiot, he was trying to get Rin to cooperate. He wasn't concentrated enough to use a CS anyway. He knows Saber wouldn't be convinced if he tried to stop her from killing Rin lol.

3) Dude, IDK. He might've not had enough strength to do so. OR. In Fate, it was possible that he used a degraded version of it in their battle therefore taking away 4-6 lives. Ilya said he took away 7 of Hercules' lives.

[Raziel1991]

Actually Im 100% certain Archer did not use Nine Lives against Berserker in the Fate route since it was outright stated in the visual novel that each kill was done through a different method.

[mirakura]

IDK then. It was just a suggestion. He may have not had enough strength against berserker. Nor enough time to trace something like that. That, OR, he was trying to shown some skillz

[Seib9]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

1. Why didn't Archer just kill Illya while Beserker was occupied with Saber in UBW?

Why would he? Archer loves and cares about Ilya, a lot, that's why, even if he allowed the good and nice man Gilgameshwin her heart, such a caring brother.

[mirakura]

Archer was there that scene?

[Seib9]

He knows about the Grail and who is the Vessel, and sure he knows about what could happen if someone without good intentions gets the Grail, so why not? Why would someone protect that that beloved sister and prevent a catastrophe? Oh right, he was too busy trying to "get suicide", or we can call it just plot (there is a lot of this), forget about what I said.

[GreyZone]

Let me rephrase it:

Why did Rin order Archer to "support Saber" instead of telling him to go for Illya? Escpacially in the graveyard scene in UBW when Archer moved to a far away hill, he would have more than enough time to run around and flank Illya instead.

That Archer didn't do it by himself is not the problem. The problem is that Rin didn't even think about it, which is escpacially weird after it became obvious that Archers regular arrows are completely useless against Baa-sa-ka. Maybe Shirou IS actually the more competent master from those 2 after all (aside from magic supply)?

[GDB]

Because Rin's just a big ol' softy. Despite her crunchy nugget exterior, she wouldn't want to actually kill a loli.

[GreyZone]

I can see the complains of the Zerofags in this scene already...


"They are such kids that are too afraid to kill an enemy master! Really a downgrade to F/0!"

[mirakura]

Meh, it's called 'the next generation children' what could you expect?

[Tenchi Hou Take]

In other news I found out that song Ilya sings in HF is Die Lorelei, who knew (Not me since I'm not German). I guess Sakura is Lorelei in that song who becomes the Siren the lures men to their doom (which I imagine is Shirou since his body is destroyed in both ends).

I finally understand what that song meant

Originally Posted by GreyZone

I can see the complains of the Zerofags in this scene already...


"They are such kids that are too afraid to kill an enemy master! Really a downgrade to F/0!"

Berserker would protect her anyway. He still has eye of the mind, even as a berserker. It's why he attacked Caladbolg mid flight.

[Nayrael]

Originally Posted by Seib9

He knows about the Grail and who is the Vessel, and sure he knows about what could happen if someone without good intentions gets the Grail, so why not? Why would someone protect that that beloved sister and prevent a catastrophe? Oh right, he was too busy trying to "get suicide", or we can call it just plot (there is a lot of this), forget about what I said.

While he was under Rin, he did not have a reason to tell Rin about her, especially since it would jeopardize his facade. Depending on how his own route went, he may have thought that Illya would be safe, especially if he wounded Berserker enough for her to have to stay in her castle for a while, the safest place for her.

Later, he was under Caster's control. Even if he knew that Illya was in danger, telling Caster about Illya would just result in the girl's heart getting ripped out or something worse.

Once he became masterless, Illya was already dead. There was nothing else he could have done.

[mirakura]

You don't have to be German or speak it, to know how to search for the song on the wikia -_-'

I'm guessing Zero watchers will be expecting the 'Knight and Princess' thing with Ilya and Saber. Sucks to be them :3 At least they get lily's dress

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by mirakura

You don't have to be German or speak it, to know how to search for the song on the wikia -_-'

Yeah and I didn't care enough to search out Ilya's horribly pronuanciated german song (it was HF...). I found this out incidentally.

Originally Posted by mirakura

You don't have to be German or speak it, to know how to search for the song on the wikia -_-'

I'm guessing Zero watchers will be expecting the 'Knight and Princess' thing with Ilya and Saber. Sucks to be them :3 At least they get lily's dress

Why would they Ilya hated Kiritsugu and everything to do with the 4th war like you'd expect. She's shown with Berserker after all.

[mirakura]

Well, I ddin't listen to the song, obvys. But I do know about it. Makes me wonder, maybe the name 'Lorelei' was placed somewhere in it?? After all, names are kept the same in latin derived languages...If I've got my history right, lol.

[Brother Coa]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

I can see the complains of the Zerofags in this scene already...


"They are such kids that are too afraid to kill an enemy master! Really a downgrade to F/0!"

You only released this now?

[mirakura]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Yeah and I didn't care enough to search out Ilya's horribly pronuanciated german song (it was HF...). I found this out incidentally.



Why would they Ilya hated Kiritsugu and everything to do with the 4th war like you'd expect. She's shown with Berserker after all.

Yeah, Saber hated Kerry as well. Probably the only person she actual held hostile feelings for lol. Anyway, I mean, they'd expect some 'second meetings'. Iri was one of the only people who didn't put Saber down for one reason or the other. And they had a fun time together in such a serious place. The really bonded, so Zero watchers would expect Saber to react to Ilya and Berserker after she was such good friends with her mom.

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

You only released this now?

Lol ikr.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by GDB

2. He wanted to trust Rin, even when she was attacking him. Calling Saber would end the duel, but it'd cost a Command Seal, or possibly end with Saber just saying screw it and killing Rin.

Plus, if he called Saber, she'd just get Archer to appear, and it would just mean he'd wasted a command spell. He assumed he could escape from her without it.

Originally Posted by GDB

Because Rin's just a big ol' softy. Despite her crunchy nugget exterior, she wouldn't want to actually kill a loli.

Yeah, this. Rin isn't someone whose first thought is going to be "kill the 10-year-old child". Even when she goes after Shirou in UBW, she notably doesn't kill (or even maim) him if she wins.

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

In other news I found out that song Ilya sings in HF is Die Lorelei, who knew (Not me since I'm not German). I guess Sakura is Lorelei in that song who becomes the Siren the lures men to their doom (which I imagine is Shirou since his body is destroyed in both ends).

I finally understand what that song meant

I think you're reading way too much into it there. It's just a common German nursery rhyme, I doubt Nasu even knew what the meaning of it is, let alone intending it to have some subtle anti-Sakura inference in her own route. Especially since it's used as Ilya's theme song in all three routes....

Also, I was aware of that for a long time. The song is even colled "Die Lorelei" in the soundtrack....

[mirakura]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

I think you're reading way too much into it there. It's just a common German nursery rhyme, I doubt Nasu even knew what the meaning of it is, let alone intending it to have some subtle anti-Sakura inference in her own route. Especially since it's used as Ilya's theme song in all three routes....

Also, I was aware of that for a long time. The song is even colled "Die Lorelei" in the soundtrack....

Somehow, the Sakura thing actually makes sense. Seeing as Ilya probably thought Sakura was hogging all the Shirou