2008-07-27, 04:25 | Link #1101 | |
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2008-07-27, 04:38 | Link #1102 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
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Lets be clear, the Old Testament shouldn't be what Christianity is about --- though its often amazing how often it gets quoted by some factions to justify certain behavior. Focusing on what *Jesus* is recorded to have said would be the guiding light, one would think. What did he say about violence or treatment of women? (rhetorical)
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Last edited by Vexx; 2008-07-27 at 04:54. |
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2008-07-27, 04:39 | Link #1103 | ||||
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But if you argue that the matters of the virgins were done under God's authority, then it becomes a matter of God permitting lives be saved. To you and I, it may be slavery/rape, but to those women, it's their second chance to live. Quote:
Last edited by monster; 2008-07-27 at 05:51. |
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2008-07-27, 06:22 | Link #1104 | |
Every word must conjure
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When it comes to interpreting another person's religious texts, I would prefer to err on the side of caution. What it doesn't say, I do my best not to presume. I will admit you have brought up a very good point that its really suggestive. But, as you've mentioned yourself, there is potential for anyone (including Christians) to take the Old Testament out of context. Since Christians define the Bible as both the Old Testament & New Testament, then shouldn't it be good form to look at both instead of just one? I also agree, yes, biblical misinterpretation is a dangerous thing. But it is sadly inevitable, seeing how Christians have broken off into so many denominations & divisions. In the end, man undoes what God has meant to be perfect - again. |
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2008-07-27, 08:43 | Link #1106 | |
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2008-07-27, 09:41 | Link #1107 |
Gregory House
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Okay, let's clear something up, and pronto:
The Bible was written by men. Anyone who doubts that is instantly barred from any kind of discussion possible. Likewise, even if you are a Christian, and even if you do believe in God over every other thing in this planet, you should realize that the Bible was written a long, long time ago, for people who had a very different set of values and tools with which understand and interpret the world. Though I'm wary of thinking that the main purpose of writing the book was simply "spreading the word of God" (isn't it too much of a coincidence that the word of God is spread by those in power?), either way, it's a book that was meant to be read and understood a very long time ago. Now, let's go back to Israelites raping women in Canaan (I believe I was the one who mentioned that in the first place). If only you used your head, even for a bit, to think in historic terms, rape is something extremely common throughout several (if not all) ancient people. Thinking that there wasn't even a single rape committed during the invasion of Canaan is, at the very best, terribly naive. But, whether God or not had "ordered" it is completely irrelevant: such acts were automatically justified by the Bible in the idea that pursuing such a war was a God-given right. Think, people, think. This is not about denying that God exists, this is about using your damn head for a moment. You're trying to literally accept the words of a book that was written by men more than 2000 years ago! Do you realize just how much has society changed since then? How difficult it is to understand how people of that era thought? As someone said already, how would you know none of the current wars are divinely justified? How would you know that Bush was actually right and that the invasion of Iraq (with all its civilian casualties, and all the tortured Iraqi and American soldiers) was his God-given right?
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2008-07-27, 10:24 | Link #1108 | |
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At least to Christians I know, the Bible was written by prophets, leaders, and men very close to God, all who wrote it according to His inspiration. Hence it being a Holy Book. Its not a simple work of mankind. At least not to us. Whether or not you want to believe that is your choice, but your view of the Bible isn't absolute. I'm sure there were incidents of rape among the invaders. Not all of them were as dedicated as some like to believe. The Israelites spent more time disobeying God than listening to him, but that doesn't mean they were a group of marauding vikings torturing and pillaging everything in their path as some like to think. What does that have to do with anything? How would we know? Probably through asking God, but that's something a lot of people here wouldn't accept. A little birdie told me the war in Iraq did have higher dealings, but that's an entirely different discussion in itself. Why not stay on topic. Last edited by Backwards Blues; 2008-07-27 at 10:39. |
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2008-07-27, 10:39 | Link #1109 | ||
Every word must conjure
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I would follow through the same for all religious texts that contain historical records within them. Quote:
But more importantly, what do you think? Without me being disrespectful, it would be interesting to hear your views on this matter. |
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2008-07-27, 10:39 | Link #1110 | |||
Gregory House
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2008-07-27, 10:47 | Link #1111 | |
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2008-07-27, 10:50 | Link #1112 |
Gregory House
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Then you are taking the Bible literally as it stands? As in, the Earth is only 6000 years old and Adam and Eve were truly two persons and not a metaphor for different people living in the Tigris-Euphrates area during the early Sumerian era?
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2008-07-27, 10:53 | Link #1113 | |
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One could argue that evolution occurred in the "six days, six ages" theory, where each day was really periods of millions of years, since time is irrelevant to God. I vote for the Adam and Eve theory because it makes the most sense as to why the world is the way it is now. Not to mention that Jesus also stated it as truth. He mentioned it as canonical in one of the gospels. I could look up the verse if you want. |
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2008-07-27, 11:02 | Link #1115 | ||
Every word must conjure
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And since you, like me, agree it requires interpretation, don't you think it should be interpreted in context? Don't get me wrong... but if any texts were meant for an audience, instructing them in the religion, then wouldn't a secular interpretation miss some key cultural-religious points? Nonetheless, I will check out Asimov's guide. I'm sure I can get a copy easily. Quote:
For the record, I'm a born-again Christian, who is trying to study Islamic Society, Culture & History in the local uni. So I try to be balanced. |
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2008-07-27, 11:12 | Link #1116 |
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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Hmm... it's getting rather hot in here, isn't it?
My problems with Creationists notwithstanding, I don't think there is much profit in ridiculing deeply-held beliefs in matters of religion. It is fine to question the authenticity of the Bible, but it is easy to see why Backwards Blues and other Christians would be offended when non-Christians attempt to discredit the Holy Book. For one thing, there are people who spend a lot of time studying and interpreting scripture from its relevant historical contexts to understand better how the Word is meant to be applied in everyday life. As such, it's rather presumptuous for secular individuals to criticise a text they haven't studied to the same extent. As shelter points out, a secular interpretation, while possible, would probably lead to further misunderstanding rather than greater knowledge. So, for a start, if there are members here who actually have a background in exegesis, I wouldn't mind hearing from them. I've met Christians who have healthy doubts about their own religion, and I'm usually impressed by how such doubts lead to greater faith in God. It's not something that an atheist can easily understand or appreciate, I believe. |
2008-07-27, 11:18 | Link #1117 | |
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2008-07-27, 12:19 | Link #1120 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Trinidad.....anyone get me out of here !
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You better be carefully which religion you choose to follow since you don't know which one is fake or real. If you have been pursuing the fake one all the time then that would be a tad waste wouldn't it ? Why take the risk and devot your life to something which may not be real ?
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not a debate, philosophy, religion |
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