Rozen Maiden ~ Ouvertüre ~ Discussion Thread

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Z0Rr0rex

If you haven't noticed, the pierrot is swarmed by Suigintu's black feathers.

Heh good point, but the feathers appear above Shinku before pierrot crashes through the window so the two events do assoicate together, but it's just a feeling I get when watching that scene...

Originally Posted by Question

Ouverture has a bit of continuity issue. The last time the dolls were awake, shinku was known as being very serious about the alice game, but suisei seki doesnt even seem to consider the possibility that shinku will try to take her rozen mystica when she showed up. Sousei seki doesnt seem surprised either that Shinku has no issues living peacefully with all the dolls, or that Suigintou survived and grew wings.

I am sure there are flash backs of Shinku, Hina, Sui and Sou all sitting around happily can't remember where... I'll make sure I note it down the next time I do a RM stint...

[Question]

Well one could always argue that the victorian age wasnt the last time they were awake....

[Tsuigintou]

There was a scene in traumend that when shinku and suigintou woke up at the same time and fought. during the fight there tanks and buildings which hinted that it was during world war....1 or 2, unknown.

[Tsuigintou]

Originally Posted by Blablabla

I don't see why. At this point of the story they will know that
- there are actually 7 Rozen Maiden
- Barasuishou is note the real 7th one
- An other doll appears in the last moments of Traumed.
It's quite easy to get that this doll is the real 7th one and that Bara's design may have been inspired by hers (since Rozen was Enju's master). Even they don't know the name of that doll. I watched the both seasons without knowing anything about the manga... And I had no problem with that doll (I even thought that she was a gentle one )

I dont get it. during the second episode of traumend, Shinku said she all the six dolls never meet the 7th Doll. So there must be something wrong a doll calling itself 7th doll suddenly appears. Because if the 7th appered before, Shinku would know whats wrong with the eye patch. Because of this fact, I assumed that none have seen the 7th doll, unless I miss something.

[Kageitenshi]

You haven't missed anything!? None of the dolls had and still haven't seen the true seventh doll and that's exactly the reason for them to believe when Barasuishou told them that she was the 7th Rozen Maiden, when in fact she was built by Enju. The viewers on the other hand do get a glimpse of the true seventh doll at the end of Träumend and while she hasn't been named in the anime, her name in the manga is Kirakishou.

There was a scene in traumend that when shinku and suigintou woke up at the same time and fought. during the fight there tanks and buildings which hinted that it was during world war....1 or 2, unknown.

Hmm? What episode might this have been in? Flashback or something perhaps? Can't recall seeing any tanks around, but Suigintou's N-Field is a ruined city that somewhat appears similar to photos from Berlin after the WWII bombings... In 1st season Suigintou remarks to Shinku that it's been 500k something minutes since they've last met, but that's only approx one year back.

[Asphyxiate]

Originally Posted by Kageitenshi

Hmm? What episode might this have been in? Flashback or something perhaps? Can't recall seeing any tanks around, but Suigintou's N-Field is a ruined city that somewhat appears similar to photos from Berlin after the WWII bombings... In 1st season Suigintou remarks to Shinku that it's been 500k something minutes since they've last met, but that's only approx one year back.

Episode is 6 of Traumend, where Suigintou flashes back. Pretty sure about this.

And it was actually 586,920 hours and 37 minutes...which is, surprisingly, exactly 67 years (and 37 minutes..lol). That would land the date of their fight in 1937. (Before WWII, but in the correct time frame for when Germany would have been massing troops)

Edit: Didn't spell her name right. I fail.

[Tsuigintou]

In the overture episode, there a part where Laplace demond and Enju visited shinku master (the one during victorian era.......). does that mean enju can live long too since he existed ever since. If so, that mean Rozen is alive in whatever way enju survive till present. What I dont get it why when Jun's time he created a doll, why he dint make one before it.

[Kageitenshi]

Asphyxiate: Well I'll be darned, there's 2 scenes that we BOTH mixed up
The one in 1st season ep.3 in which Gin steps out of the mirror in Jun's house and greets Shinku with saying that it's been "It's been 586,920 minutes and 37 seconds, hasn't it, Shinku?"
And then there's the one Tsuigintou and you had in mind, from Träumend ep.6 in which Gin tells Megu about herself and Shinku "The last time I met Shinku was 580,000 hours ago." Indeed that is some ~68 years back and would be around 1944 from 2004. Truly there is a German Tiger II tank in the flashback and a Soldier in German style officer's / military police uniform, and another with M35 helmet.

Tsuigintou: Oh... Yes, Enju, like Rozen and Shirosaki / Laplace, are from early Victorian era if not 18th century or earlier from late Renaissance. It would seem as though Enju has been looking for clues on how to build a doll similar to the true Rozen Maidens ever since before the events in Ouvertüre in which he and Shirosaki pays a visit to Sarah's apartment asking if they've seen "living dolls." It's as of yet unknown when or where Bara and Kira were built, or whether or not Bara was built based on the already finished Kirakishou or the base design of hers. But we do know that Bara was finished in time for the events in Träumend just because Enju wanted to show his mentor that he was better than the best ^__^

[RM-FAN]

I got a question, if Rozen was german, WHY THE STORY IS IN ENGLAND AND WHY THE DOLLS ARE VICTORIANS IF IN GERMANY THERE IS NOT VICTORIANY ERA?

[Kageitenshi]

Well, the same way I guess the dolls end up all the way up in 21st century JAPAN? We only see that Shinku and Gin have fought somewhere in Germany around the 2nd world war and that the events of Ouvertüre are in late Victorian era England, there's no indication that Rozen himself would be German, or English for that matter.

[Deathkillz]

and there is no indication to how the suit cases get to individuals besides that scene in the first ep...could it be that all of the RM masters (okey servants! dont kill me shinku >.<) need to sign a contract for the suit cases to appear? O.o for all we know after each time the dolls go back to sleep they are randomly located according to who signs the paper...

[Hilinar]

I'm trying to identify earliest era(s) of Rozen Maiden, that wich we can see at the beginning of 1st episode (garden party), and similiar mansion in n-field at the end of Traumend. Also, probably next era is showed in Shinku's memories about wicked cat. (city with green hills in background) I presume it is not earlier then initial 19th century, when porcelain dolls became popular.

[RM-FAN]

Originally Posted by Kageitenshi

Well, the same way I guess the dolls end up all the way up in 21st century JAPAN? We only see that Shinku and Gin have fought somewhere in Germany around the 2nd world war and that the events of Ouvertüre are in late Victorian era England, there's no indication that Rozen himself would be German, or English for that matter.

In the episode 7 of the first season, when Jun go to the school, he found a book that talk about of Rozen, in it mention that Rozen was a great "german doll-maker"

[Kageitenshi]

Oh dear, not only the book from ep.7, but I forgot the fact that the dolls' names are originally German; Reiner Rubin, Jade Sterne etc... Good thing there's people with better memory of such things
Still only their original names and the book, written by someone other than Rozen himself, are German... could be from Switzerland too Can't find anyone saying "German doll-maker." Though you're right, there's more than enough to justify the claim that Rozen might be German.

*grumble* time to get ready for work yet again or I'll be late! Still waiting for that first salary to be spent on something nice pfffft >_<

[Lost]

Originally Posted by Question

Ouverture has a bit of continuity issue. The last time the dolls were awake, shinku was known as being very serious about the alice game, but suisei seki doesnt even seem to consider the possibility that shinku will try to take her rozen mystica when she showed up. Sousei seki doesnt seem surprised either that Shinku has no issues living peacefully with all the dolls, or that Suigintou survived and grew wings.

TBH, in season 1 I don't see how Shinku was serious of the Alice Game; at least not in the way it was supposed to be played, taking the opponents RM. If she was really serious about the Alice Game, she would have taken Hinaichigo's RM not long after defeating her. So I believe Suiseiseki would have good reason not to be afraid of Shinku. Also consider Suiseiseki's character: If there was ever one who was against the Alice Game, it would have been Suiseiseki. The only reason Shinku was fighting Gin IMO are (1) primarily to settle the feud started in Ouverture, to prove Gin Junk, and (2) to defend herself and her friends.

[Tsuigintou]

May I know what is the name of the song when Suigintou just arrive in sara's house(the part where she just emerge form the mirror and meet shinku)....if the track is already available in the ost, which one? Thanks.

[Hilinar]

6778jgtjhg7777787

[Fishbait]

Speaking of songs

Anyone know when the single for the Ouverture ending will be out? I know it's mentioned somewhere here but it's hard to dig it out

[Cal-Reflector]

Ahahaha... funny thing is, I didn't even know there was a Rozen Maiden OAV out until last night. *Is pitted with rotten vegetables and fruit* Well, I've read most of this thread and understood the core stances and points made. Suigintou has always been my favorite character in the show, starting from:

1)How cool her character design was
2)How interesting and conflicted her eyes were
3)Her jaded, vengeful personality.

Later on, the fandom phenomenon of associating Gin-Sama (yes, I do refer to her that way) with Yakult reinforced the liking, even though to this day I'm not quite sure how that came about. After watching the OAV, I believe I can add a few extra reasons: In my view, Suigintou makes for an excellent anti-hero, a neccessary and attractive ideal type to contrast against the protagonists of the show: Anti-heroes often share some (if not all) of the following characteristics:

1) A victim/product of circumstance outside of her/his control...
2) Leading to a Nietzschean view of the world.
3) A dogged pursuit of and trust in their own strength.
4) Containing a mixture of conflicted motives and factors-- often including pride, a repressed past, vengeance, fierce loyalty. Inner conflict; grayness.
5) A ruthless consistency to their actions and principles, delivering a purity of purpose that's refreshingly free of hypocrisy.
6) Loneliness.

Characters whom I think fit roughly into the same category as Gin-Sama include, off the top of my head:
Leulouch von Brittania (Code Geass),
Vegeta (Dragon Ball),
Char Aznable (Gundam Original Century),
Hiei (Yu Yu Hakusho),
The Count of Monte Cristo (Gankutsuou, Novel),
Sephiroth (FF7)
Bruce Wayne (Batman),
Suitengu (Speed Grapher),
Saitou Hajime (Rurouni Kenshin),
Frank Castle (The Punisher),
Two Face (Batman).

I can't quite explain why these characters, including Gin-Sama, enjoy the high leve of popularity within their respective realms. Is it simply their cool character designs and complex personalities? Or is there some innate desire (particularly within males) which admires decisive action and "bad-assery" in general? Are we drawn to these characters, these Black Knights, because of their disruptive effect on the convenient (some would say archaic) black-versus-white moral scheme?

I hope this will invite other forums to articulate their thoughts on the matter; or more simply, just why do people like Gin-sama?

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector

Ahahaha... funny thing is, I didn't even know there was a Rozen Maiden OAV out until last night. *Is pitted with rotten vegetables and fruit*

for shame *pitties Cal*

I hope this will invite other forums to articulate their thoughts on the matter; or more simply, just why do people like Gin-sama?

main reason why gin sama is always at the top of my fav list has got to be because of her tragic maiden story...a tale of love and betrayal...gin sama will always be in my heart ~ gin sama has quite a special personality ~ most of the times she is hard and unforgiving...but this was never over the top evil (or it never did seem to me) ~ yet i know her true feelings of wanting acknowledgement...no matter where you look at it...gin sama is a princess who is already alice in her own right