Bakemonogatari generic discussion

[kimholm]

Better, no.
More popular, yes.

[DragoZERO]

BD/DVD sales don't mean everything. There is no use in arguing about stuff like that.

[npal]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

BD/DVD sales don't mean everything. There is no use in arguing about stuff like that.

Actually, for the producers and everyone who worked to get the anime out, sales mean everything.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by npal

Actually, for the producers and everyone who worked to get the anime out, sales mean everything.

It doesn't mean that the series was good to bad. GS was better than GSD, but GSD sold more. I'm pretty sure Evangelion didn't sell that well when it first came out either, and now its a definitive title for the anime world.

Besides, there's more merchandise than just BD/DVD sales too, so yeah.

[npal]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Besides, there's more merchandise than just BD/DVD sales too, so yeah.

Well, that works both ways so unless we can get sales figures from those other merchandise sections, we all just have to rely to BD/DVD sales. Anything else is pure, baseless speculation.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by npal

Well, that works both ways so unless we can get sales figures from those other merchandise sections, we all just have to rely to BD/DVD sales. Anything else is pure, baseless speculation.

Well, that is true. I concede.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by sirn

71000 for Gundam SEED
80500 for Gundam SEED Destiny

Destiny is better than SEED? I don't think so.

But Bakemonogatari is better than K-On!

Ah! Two weeks left for next episode! It's killing me!

[Reekon]

I don't think the GS vs GSD is a good comparison for K-ON vs Bakemonogatari.

As GS became more and more popular, it's but natural for GSD to have more sales, since the fanbase was already established by GS.

Think of it like Austin Powers. Nobody watched Austin Powers in the theaters. But once more and more people became aware of Austin Powers via video rentals, the 2nd Austin Powers film had a bigger theater audience. (Again because the fanbase was created by the 1st one.)

So I think the K-ON vs Bakemonogatari isn't comparable to that, since they're both on the same footing with regards to both just starting a fanbase based solely on their own quality/popularity.

As such, I think the DVD/BluRay sales mean more for this scenario.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Moeblob shows like K-on come and go. Once there is a new FOTM moeblob show, people will eat that up and K-on will likely be either forgotten or at least its hype dramatically reduced. I personally hated it, but there are many who love them so I won't comment on K-on's quality anymore. Bakemonogatari on the other hand, is guaranteed to have a longer life span. Although its style isn't for everyone, it is a quite a unique piece of work and there really isn't a comparison quite like it. The best way to describe it would be to say a Spice and Wolf type-like character interaction interwined in a SHAFT production substituting the medieval merchanting plot with a supernatural/paranormal theme.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if DVD/Bluray sales continue to be very high. I'm also pretty confident in saying that sales in the bakemonogatari light novel, its prequels and its sequels are gonna increase quite dramatically. Conversely, I don't think K-on manga is going to increase at the same level. It will indeed have had some impact, but I don't think people are going to read a manga series where the anime covered it substantially and the plot doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by acejem

Moeblob shows like K-on come and go. Once there is a new FOTM moeblob show, people will eat that up and K-on will likely be either forgotten or at least its hype dramatically reduced. I personally hated it, but there are many who love them so I won't comment on K-on's quality anymore. Bakemonogatari on the other hand, is guaranteed to have a longer life span. Although its style isn't for everyone, it is a quite a unique piece of work and there really isn't a comparison quite like it. The best way to describe it would be to say a Spice and Wolf type-like character interaction interwined in a SHAFT production substituting the medieval merchanting plot with a supernatural/paranormal theme.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if DVD/Bluray sales continue to be very high. I'm also pretty confident in saying that sales in the bakemonogatari light novel, its prequels and its sequels are gonna increase quite dramatically. Conversely, I don't think K-on manga is going to increase at the same level. It will indeed have had some impact, but I don't think people are going to read a manga series where the anime covered it substantially and the plot doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

The only thing anime series like K-On, Lucky Star and Haruhi have is excessively cute characters doing something random in one chapter/episode that has absolutely no relation to what happened in the previous episode and virtually no character development. The only reason people like to read the series is because the character designs are eye-candy. Bakemonogatari also has eye-candy designs, but it has that and much, much more. Character development, plot, the characters are doing something relevant to each other and there's an objective in each episode. Unless people only care about looking at images, Bakemonogatari's bound to have a longer life span.

Considering the popularity it apparently achieved in Japan, it's definitely going to have a sequel. There's gotta be a reason that the developers are airing 3 extra episodes online. They obviously earned enough spare cash to create these episodes, hiring the VA's, artists, animators, musicians, screenwriters, etc from the previous 12 eps. To be able to do that and air 3 more episodes for free means they gained a lot of views and money on top of that.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

The only thing anime series like K-On, Lucky Star and Haruhi have is excessively cute characters doing something random in one chapter/episode that has absolutely no relation to what happened in the previous episode and virtually no character development. The only reason people like to read the series is because the character designs are eye-candy. Bakemonogatari also has eye-candy designs, but it has that and much, much more. Character development, plot, the characters are doing something relevant to each other and there's an objective in each episode. Unless people only care about looking at images, Bakemonogatari's bound to have a longer life span.

Considering the popularity it apparently achieved in Japan, it's definitely going to have a sequel. There's gotta be a reason that the developers are airing 3 extra episodes online. They obviously earned enough spare cash to create these episodes, hiring the VA's, artists, animators, musicians, screenwriters, etc from the previous 12 eps. To be able to do that and air 3 more episodes for free means they gained a lot of views and money on top of that.

I feel I should defend to some extend Haruhi, since it had plot, unfortunately the studio and publishing house decided to ditch it in favour of eye-candies, like their other two shows you mentioned.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Personally, I enjoyed Lucky Star. I understood most of the references and found them funny. Sure, if you looked at it from the surface it was just moe-galore, but I found that it had substance in its jokes/references. I perfectly understand that one would not enjoy the anime if they didn't get the references or if they don't like parody animes in general. Lucky Star is really a Hit or Miss.

As a site note, there's a new series called Seitokai No Ichizon that's currently airing. Pretty much Lucky Star on Crack. The amount of references they are pouring out is insane. Would be even more of Hit or Miss anime.

Back on topic, despite Kyoani making subpar shows recently (with the exception of Clannad AS), people are still going gobble up anything made by them. You have to admit, the way they present "moe" is well suited for a mass-audience. I don't think SHAFT's avant-garde, arthouse style is going to reach anywhere near the audience KyoAni has at the moment. Thus, bakemonogatari, although a brilliant piece of work, is not going get the popularity of any KyoAni show as of currently.
However, KyoAni will need to be careful in the future. "Endless Eight" pissed a lot of people off.

[Miyuki-ism]

I would still think SHAFT is going up, while Kyoani is going down. But Kyoani is trying to redeem themselves with the Disappearance movie.

[durack]

Kind of a touchy subject, but what fansub would be the best?

I am watching subs by one group now and I have a definite feeling that I am missing quite a bit.

PM if you want.

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by acejem

Back on topic, despite Kyoani making subpar shows recently (with the exception of Clannad AS), people are still going gobble up anything made by them. You have to admit, the way they present "moe" is well suited for a mass-audience. I don't think SHAFT's avant-garde, arthouse style is going to reach anywhere near the audience KyoAni has at the moment. Thus, bakemonogatari, although a brilliant piece of work, is not going get the popularity of any KyoAni show as of currently.

Didn't we just establish on the previous page that Bake is selling more DVDs than K-On? It already is more popular, in the most easily measurable sense. The fact that it didn't have KyoAni's ongoing momentum makes it even more impressive.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

The only thing anime series like K-On, Lucky Star and Haruhi have is excessively cute characters doing something random in one chapter/episode that has absolutely no relation to what happened in the previous episode and virtually no character development. The only reason people like to read the series is because the character designs are eye-candy.

lol @ this blind hate applying to Haruhi. Also nice to know people bought so many Haruhi light novels for the ten pics of eye candy.

Considering the popularity it apparently achieved in Japan, it's definitely going to have a sequel. There's gotta be a reason that the developers are airing 3 extra episodes online. They obviously earned enough spare cash to create these episodes, hiring the VA's, artists, animators, musicians, screenwriters, etc from the previous 12 eps. To be able to do that and air 3 more episodes for free means they gained a lot of views and money on top of that.

This was decided before the series even aired, SHAFT/Shinbo didn't think they could do Bakemonogatari justice with just 12 episodes. Seriously imagine episode 12 as an 6-8 minute segment? Yeah exactly.

[freakonboard]

Yep, Shinbo intended to do this series 15 episodes from the start.
But the typical 1-cour anime season is 12-13 episodes.

[Ice Block]

ITT: Some people who are still butthurt over Endless Eight.

Seriously, get over it. And just like how the web episodes were planned from before Ep01 even aired*, Disappearance was already planned to be a movie (and the 8 episodes of Endless Eight) way back when.

*Shinbou purposely extended MayoiSnail's and TsubasaCat's original anime script IIRC, and since the allotted 12 episodes were not enough they chose to air them on the website instead.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Clarste

Didn't we just establish on the previous page that Bake is selling more DVDs than K-On? It already is more popular, in the most easily measurable sense. The fact that it didn't have KyoAni's ongoing momentum makes it even more impressive.

DVD sales isn't the be it or end all for popularity. Also those are figures for the first week only, so we won't know how Bakemonogatari will do in the future. But I doubt Bakemonogatari will reach the levels of popularity of say Haruhi, Death Note, Code Geass and Evangelion. Maybe in Japan it MAY get more popular, but I doubt worldwide.

How many SHAFT shows are popular to the outside world? SZS maybe and thats about it. ef - tale of memories for example was a big hit in Japan and very highly rated on sites like ANN and MAL and although its been 2 years, no foreign company has licensed it yet. Most likely reason? Not popular enough in the Western World to warrant a license. On the contrary, Clannad and Clannad After story (similiar/same genre) are already licensed. It's a given fact westerners generally do not like SHAFT as much as say KyoAni, JC Staff or the other "less-crazy" studios. Not saying SHAFT is shit, the average SHAFT anime is better than the average Kyoani anime in my eyes. It's just that it's artstyle does not appeal a mass audience as much as say Kyoani.

[Reekon]

@acejem: I think Clarste was just commenting on your statement:

"Thus, bakemonogatari, although a brilliant piece of work, is not going get the popularity of any KyoAni show as of currently." (highlight done by me)

Basically what Clarste was saying is that Bake has one show beat, in the form of K-ON. Not to say that Shaft beat all of KyoAni, only K-ON.

And your last post (the one above this) talks about KyoAni as a whole instead. And in these terms, you're correct.

So I don't think there's a need to discuss this further.

We gotta give it to Bake, like you said it doesn't have the mass appeal of KyoAni animes, but it was able to still be popular enough to edge out at least 1 KyoAni show.

P.S.
Btw, I'm actually a KyoAni fanboy truth be told. I just wish they'd stop with all these light animes, and start animating the next arcs of Full Metal Panic already. (Oh don't get me wrong, I also love the light animes and have enjoyed K-ON too, but still ... FMP...*sigh*)