2007-12-18, 19:12 | Link #41 | |
Weapon of Mass Discussion
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, USA
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I just want to know if you really think that Makoto deserved to die for suggesting abortion and if you'd wish death on anyone else who suggested abortion as a solution for teenaged pregnancy. I'm not asking if you'd kill him yourself. (You made it clear enough that you'd not do the killing) I'm asking if you think their karma should cause that result.
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2007-12-18, 19:19 | Link #42 |
~ You're dead ^__^* ~
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Now how did this turn into abortion (one of the biggest grey area known to mankind ).
To confirm...I don't believe that in a real life situation, makoto should be executed for his actions. But certainly he needs to be taught a pretty good lesson, if not I can just see many more people getting hurt by him. How about we make it so that he can never have sex again as a form of punishment
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2007-12-18, 19:21 | Link #43 | |
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2007-12-18, 20:37 | Link #44 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Age: 38
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I do believe in karma, if you throw a punch, you will get punch back, might not by the person that you hit, but definitely in one way or another... |
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2007-12-18, 21:26 | Link #45 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Focusing on the abortion aspect of the story unfortunately will basically lead to a never-ending debate. The only agreement is probably the statement that Makoto is basically trying to find the way out of taking on any responsibility.
At the core, it's the fact that this is HIGH SCHOOL is what defines this situation for me. These are teenagers. There is a reason why teenagers aren't treated as adults in a court of law, even though they are capable of doing adult actions. There is no way that Makoto is so depraved that there is no chance of redemption. There was no intent to murder, rape or torture. I still think looking at it as a sex addiction is a pretty valid way to explain his downfall and his actions. There is a reason why intent is so critically important in law. Arguably, intent is critically important in religion as well. Let's look at a basic example. Let's say you spilled a cup of water, which subsequently froze, causing someone to trip, break his neck and die. Are you guilty of murder? Of course not. Now Makoto's situation isn't so obvious, but it's clear his intent eventually became getting sex for the least amount of responsibilities. |
2007-12-18, 22:26 | Link #47 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Age: 38
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That is something I never liked about the law. If a juvenile commits a crime, just because he is under age, I never felt that he should be treated any different than an adult, especially if he was able to pull off the act/crime that he commited. Just shows that if you commit a crime early in life, you get away with it. Anybody would feel a sort of remorse at the end of the anime if you where in the shoes of the male lead. He didnt, not one bit, show that. Instead he steeps deeper into it which I felt, he wouldnt have changed even given time. Like you said, he has a sex addiction, lets said he didnt get murdered by Sekai, he gets idk, punished..even after the punishment, he is still a gonna sleep with other women while dating one...That is how it will be and its gonna be an endless cycle. That example is too basic lol...a relationship is anything but basic and shouldnt be view in such a manner. |
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2007-12-19, 07:50 | Link #49 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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The fact that juveniles are given a chance at redemption is something I really appreciate about the justice system. I truly believe in redemption and second chances. While they are capable of adult actions, it's very clear in many cases that their mind and maturity is still very much in development.
Makoto is a teenager. While his actions were insensitive, he didn't actually commit any crimes. Prior to this brief period of selfish playboy behavior, he was portrayed as a really nice guy. Remember that many of these girls were attracted to him because of his past good behavior. I think it quite possible that he can turn into a good responsible adult, given the chance. He might even try to make up for the people he hurt, once he understands the real impact of his behavior. He's not evil. He's not malicious. He's just young, immature, weak, horny and insensitive. |
2007-12-19, 08:53 | Link #50 | ||
~ You're dead ^__^* ~
Graphic Designer
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Yes, but if we are in favor of giving him a chance (which is something I agree) then just cut off one ball. If he continues to be a scum finish him by cutting off the other one ^^
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Help what you can help but if they refuse to "redempt" then what happens? You can't really help those who are unwilling to change themselves. Quote:
Hey could turn out a fine man but I'm just worried about how many girl's lives he is going to ruin before that happens. Sometimes a simple "sorry" cannot solve a problem. What say sekai commited suicide because of him? I doubt he would feel much guilt. Even saying "sorry", there is no way he could bring back someone's shattered life.
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2007-12-19, 14:10 | Link #51 | |
Suspended In Shadows
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Age: 34
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It's just something that you'll have to accept. So what your saying is that the age doesn't matter, if the crime is still committed by a 7 year old he/she should still be treated as an adult in the court of law? Have u ever been a juvenille? because if you have been then i think that you would see things differently and be a little more merciful on the second chance idea. |
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2007-12-19, 14:47 | Link #52 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Age: 38
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Not just is there people that dont change, there are people that commit worst acts after receiving punishment...why do you think he is any different especially with how he acted towards the end of the anime? Just because he WAS a "good" guy? @Dr1ft3r - Ok, when I made that statement, I didnt take into account of non-teenager incidents which I totally missed out on. I was thinking of teenagers able to do certain acts that dont get punished for because of simply, his/her age. Sadly enough, second chance is overrated. I probably have given so many second chance opportunities to people I thought was friends than you can imagine that caused alot more pain at the end. Its not that I dont trust or believe they change, its that certain act that you do cant be repented. I am a truly forgiving person, but when a person's life is endangered because of your own selfishness, then thats truly unforgivable. |
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2007-12-19, 16:49 | Link #53 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia Tech
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"Some who live deserve death. Some who die deserve life. But that's not for us to decide, we just have to decide what to do with the time that is given for us." - Paraphrasing Gandalf
But in my opinion, I don't think Makoto deserved to die. Looking back at September now, it feels kind of different. Makoto really should have had to pay the consequences for his actions, which was to support a child at a young age and ruin his chances in the future. He should not have had to pay anything more.
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2007-12-19, 16:58 | Link #54 | |
Toyosaki Aki
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Being a juvenile should not be an excuse to escape responsibility. A 14 year old plotting and killing his entire family is no different from an 18 year old who commits the same act. Granted, a 10 year old accidentally swapping his dad's water for Clorox is different from a 18 year old doing this intentionally, but that is more a matter of intent and understanding the consequences of your actions. Age should not lessen Makoto's responsibility because he is old enough to know the consequences. The point is, Makoto did what he did, and just because he ran away from the consequences doesn't mean he doesn't understand them. There is no excuse. I agree with Deathkillz, he should just be castrated. For obviously failing as a human being and being fugly as hell, he shouldn't pass on his genes. However, killing him is probably too far to go. Who knows, maybe he'll commit suicide from not being able to have sex ever again
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2007-12-19, 19:06 | Link #55 | |
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Age: 38
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2007-12-19, 22:02 | Link #56 | |
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Location: Virginia Tech
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But regardless, I know what you mean, because he caused emotional damage on Kotonoha, Otome, Setsuna, and the others as well. But these things happen. He's a teenage boy who hasn't learned how to keep his pants zipper shut. How often has somebody slept around? Less often than not. But should that mean that person should be killed? It was a poor decision on Makoto's part, but not something that should have resulted in his death. Especially because he didn't do anything remotely close to killing another girl. Besides, most of Kotonoha's anguish that I saw came from her bullies, not from Makoto. He was just an object they referenced to a lot.
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2007-12-19, 22:41 | Link #57 |
Ultimate Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Francisco
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he deserves to die because thats what made the anime good
but seriously, the girls are psycho for trying to kill him most people past their 20s - sleep around, if they dont like what thier partner is doing, they just break up and move on what makoto is doing is nothing really horredous, he is just handling puberty savagely if the gendor roles were switch, i would still think that the people doing the killing are just messed up in the head even if he was superman in bed thiers plenty of fish in the sea so people need to turn away from psychoness and move on |
2007-12-19, 23:24 | Link #58 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Age: 38
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Why do you think Kotonoha is willing to endure everything? Because she believes in the relationship that she has with Matoko...if it wasnt for this, I am sure she would have broken down way before the festival...Her anguish has a direct correlation to Matoko... |
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2007-12-20, 09:03 | Link #59 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia Tech
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The consequences of breaking a girl's heart is not death. If that was the case, every single person in a relationship would be forced to remain in the relationship through marriage and death, or die. That's all he did, he repeatedly broke other girls' hearts. They did the rest.
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2007-12-20, 13:29 | Link #60 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Age: 38
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You are right that breaking a girls heart doesnt result in death since I would be dead as well if that did happen but he broke at least 3 girls heart, got 1 pregnant, cause 1 to go insane and lastly, FELT NO REMORSE. Thats the thing that is bugging me the most. He shown no sign of redemption for his actions and just went on doing what he did before that only caused more pain to the girls. |
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