(L) Hidamari Sketch

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

Damn Rooboy (Rorge), beat me to the toast one. I'll just stick with the stoned girl one.

LOL, if I make my one with the pan dropping from all the different series, I'll let you know so you can use this one.

The more I think about it, the more I like that idea - now all I need is the time to do it. Maybe later tonight.

[Ayu-ayu]

Sigh...so I've been watching the raws and the Shintani subs, but after watching half of the sub of episode 3 (which I couldn't even bring myself to finish), I'm going to give up and stick to the raws.

I thought they did well enough on their subs and had enough respect for them after episode 2, but nothing kills watching an already funny show for me more than seeing the subber insert their own distracting editorializing all throughout the episode like graffiti as they did in episode 3. If you're going to MST3K a series, at least label it a parody sub or such.

Overall I think this sort of thing is very disrespectful to the original work.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Ayu-ayu

but nothing kills watching an already funny show for me more than seeing the subber insert their own distracting editorializing all throughout the episode like graffiti as they did in episode 3.

This here shows how different people can be. I loved what they added - its a nice lil' twist to fansubbing which we don't see all the time. Easy, if you don't like it - don't watch it.

Originally Posted by Ayu-ayu

at least label it a parody sub or such

Why? They translate the whole episode perfectly.

Originally Posted by Ayu-ayu

Overall I think this sort of thing is very disrespectful to the original work.

Seeing as though these shows are not originally made to host fansubs, what you said is just stupid.

[Sorrow-K]

Originally Posted by Ayu-ayu

Sigh...so I've been watching the raws and the Shintani subs, but after watching half of the sub of episode 3 (which I couldn't even bring myself to finish), I'm going to give up and stick to the raws.

I thought they did well enough on their subs and had enough respect for them after episode 2, but nothing kills watching an already funny show for me more than seeing the subber insert their own distracting editorializing all throughout the episode like graffiti as they did in episode 3. If you're going to MST3K a series, at least label it a parody sub or such.

Overall I think this sort of thing is very disrespectful to the original work.

I don't disagree with you, in that I'd rather the subs don't have them, but given that there's no alternative sub with this series and they're not excessive, I'd say they're tolerable. Other than that, Shintani's sub is fairly sound. And at least it's not as invasive and incredibly inappropriate as a certain subber's efforts with Utawarerumono were a few months ago.

[Dop]

Ok. so the "Oh god Yoshinoya is hot" bit was amusing the first time it appeared, but is subject to the law of diminishing returns so I kind of hope Shintani drop it as it would get a bit tedious if it appeared all the time Yoshinoya gets in a cool outfit.

The bits that came up explaining some of the references were perfectly OK, as while I have seen He Is My Master and thought Yoshinoya's maid costume looked familar, some of the other references had gone over my head.
And I thought the joke in the bit about not selling this fansub was amusing.

But then again, I'd rather watch the fansub with the odd little jokey reference in the fansub (as long as it's tasteful and appopriate) than not have fansubs at all.

[Vexx]

I don't know about disrespectful ... but I do prefer fansubs that keep themselves a bit more transparent. As it is, as long as they don't WASTE my time with poor translations, I just view their work as a handy way to preview what I might like to buy so I waste less money on crud...

So far Shintani is keeping mostly in the background so I don't mind the occasional "MSTy" as long as they don't severely mistranslate or visually interfere with the presentation like good fansubbers try to avoid (thinks of PPD and the valiant attempts to avoid problems there).

[Skane]

Chip in another guy who prefers not to see such invasive self-inserted comments. It kinda ruins the mood and viewing immersion.

Cheers.

[Shiroth]

Of course i wasen't pointing at 'its a good thing', i just don't see the point in someone having ago like that when its not 100% effecting the enjoyment of the series/episode.

[relentlessflame]

Well, maybe this is the sort of thing that softsubs/alternate sub tracks could be used for so that the viewer has the option. On the one hand I don't mind seeing what the subbers were thinking, but on the other, I don't think during the episode is the best time. Maybe like a notes file, or a slide at the end, or commentary on their website or something? I would tend to agree though... if you're going to have "staff commentary", a way to turn it off is sort of a nice gesture. It'd sort of be like if you purchased a DVD and the commentary track were the default.

[Ayu-ayu]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

This here shows how different people can be. I loved what they added - its a nice lil' twist to fansubbing which we don't see all the time. Easy, if you don't like it - don't watch it.

Which is what I said I'd do--as I said, I'll be switching to just the raws. You're right that it's a case of different tastes, of course. I personally prefer fansubbers who view things with a professional attitude (and by that I don't mean professional subbing, I mean an attitude that affords the work respect, maturity, and most important, good quality treatment). I recognize that the nature of the beast though is that this will not always be the case, though.

Why? They translate the whole episode perfectly.

You might have noticed that I did say that up through episode 2 I felt they had done well enough. I would take issue with "perfectly" for episode 3, but the translation errors were minor and don't bother me as much. But compared to episode 1&2, the difference was night and day. Perhaps labeling it a MST3K sub is a bit extreme, granted, but I just felt like these additions were annoying.

Seeing as though these shows are not originally made to host fansubs, what you said is just stupid.

How so? Are you trying to say ALL fansubs are disrespectful to the original work, because the series were not made to host them? I would disagree on that point. My argument is that a show that is designed to be a comedy should be allowed to stand on its own merits without inserted humor that is not part of the original intended writing or direction. As soon as a subber does that, they are trying to put themselves at the same level as a writer or director, and that is what I mean by being disrespectful.

Now, by editorializing, I should clarify that this doesn't apply to non-invasive cultural notes or better yet commentary added as liner notes at the end or beginning of a sub, or as a text file attachment--that's not the same thing as making lewd comments or jibes at what is going on on-screen.

[Jiji]

I feel somewhere between Ayu-ayu and relentlessflame here. I don't particularly *mind* the cutesy comments, and they're entertaining, but they are also distracting and detract from what I see as an art form--not merely entertainment. Putting those kinds of comments into the hardsubs may show a sense of humour, but...maybe during the episode itself is not the best time. During the "eyecatch" didn't bother me at all, for instance. rf's idea about a softsub track with the jokes/cultural notes/tranlation notes would be a great way to go about it.
Still, in the end, I feel this is nitpicking. Overall, this is by far my favourite show this winter, perhaps for the last year. Being able to watch it with subs is just fantastic and Shintani's efforts are definately appreciated in this house.

[endy]

This matter is being reviewed and is subject to change for episode 4 and onwards. I support the actions of the person who added them to the subs in the first place, but if you ask me, if they are bad enough to cause someone, anyone to abandon the subs in favor of the raws then it should be revised or toned down a little.

Thank you for bringing this issue up though, we are always glad to accept criticism if it means we can adapt to it and improve. Just don't... you know, stop watching it because of something so trivial.

[Kilgamayan]

I suppose this is where I need to step in and say something, eh? All right then.

I'll be perfectly honest - doing this (EDIT: this being typesetting) is a pain in the ass, especially when you're sick during midterms week. As such, I'm going to have as much fun doing it as I can. The result is what you see. I realize this is unconventional. I haven't cared about convention since day 1 and only follow it when it's convenient for me or the group on the whole.

If losing a couple of leechers is the cost of keeping myself from going nuts, then it's a price I'm willing to pay, because it hurts you a lot more than it hurts us (unless you can understand Japanese, in which case why are you watching the subs at all?).

I don't want or mean to be a jerk, but you're seriously getting worked up over nothing. Just remember, I could be a lot worse.

[Impz]

Well, I am jumping into the conversation after seeing the fansubs by Shintani. I generally watch chinese subs/raws and understand most of the linguistic jokes provided and i felt that Shintani has done a competent translation on it. However, I do think that it got a bit obtrusive to my viewing pleasure, though I am not the target audience since I hardly watch any english subs anymore.

I doubt that anyone is not appreciative of your work, Kilgamayan, because most of us know exactly how hard it is to translate and get a sub out amidst the free time. If anything, I just felt that there has to be a balance between having fun and providing a decent translation. I am not usually complaining and for me, it's hardly to the extent where I will stop watching Shintani (though I don't use the subs except for this instance to see what's the situation and to get some verification over issues i didn't really get in episode 3).

Still, for a series like Hidamari Sketch, you got to be really good in Japanese to get all the jokes, and it's something that only subs can solve. Just to say it. I also applaud endy for listening to criticism and respond to complains here.

Cool stuff

[endy]

Heh, well the boss has spoken, huh.

ps thanks Impz, the fans are a very important part of our job that should be taken into consideration! :wink:

[Ayu-ayu]

First, thanks Endy for your courteous and kind reply. I really appreciate it. It's people like you that really make the whole thing worthwhile, and while I disagree with the post Kilgamayan made afterwards, I'll reconsider your efforts.

I don't mind throwing "convention" out the door, per se, Kilgamayan. And I'm sympathetic, I've done work on some subs before myself, and know what it's like. But what I saw bothered me, so I felt I should share my concern. From looking at the other posts here, it seems pretty split between those who enjoyed the additions and those who didn't. I suppose if another subber was doing this show, it never would have come up, since one could always choose.

I understand enough Japanese to follow the show raw and only miss a few minor points, but I admit that the subs do help, which is why I've been appreciative of your hard work for the prior two installments. Perhaps I'm being critical because I know you guys can do better.

[Vexx]

Just keep in mind the goals of Shintani as a group. If it is to come up with something that they hope a great deal of people enjoy, then, yes, humor should avoid anything like that example you pointed to (unless driving off the vast majority of people who might watch is a goal).

I've been fine with Shintani's efforts and really appreciate the crutch for getting through the linguistic humor - just keep in mind the potential audience demographic for Hidamari Sketch is not just the "14 year old male". Most immediate examples are my wife and the girlfriends of both of my sons.

I find typesetting to be kind of mindnumbing so I can certainly grasp the need to find some wiggle room for creativity

[Kilgamayan]

Regarding being offensive, I will say that I profusely apologize to anyone who was offended by the Christian anime line. It occured to me about thirty seconds after we released that hey maybe that wasn't such a good idea. Fortunately (for me) everything I've heard about that line was highly positive so I guess I should thank my lucky stars that the majority of the internet seems to be atheist/agnostic (and a good chunk of it is very anti-religion, including a lot of my good friends).

As for the rest of it, I still personally don't see what the big deal is, so I suppose we will have to agree to fundamentally disagree in that regard. As it stands, midterms are coming to a close, I'm on the back end of this cold and Spring Break is coming up, so Episode 4 will probably have less of this if only because I won't be in a mood conducive to it. There's also something of an application of "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" theory at work here since I've been hearing about this left and right and the combination of external and internal pressure is getting to the point where it's worth not doing what I want to do just so I don't have to deal with the aggravation that would result.

[WanderingKnight]

I don't want or mean to be a jerk, but you're seriously getting worked up over nothing. Just remember, I could be a lot worse.

OMG, now I understand where lie hidden all those pedos who give us anime fans a really bad name... j/k

But those LIME guys are kind of fucked up anyways.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Kilgamayan

Regarding being offensive, I will say that I profusely apologize to anyone who was offended by the Christian anime line. It occured to me about thirty seconds after we released that hey maybe that wasn't such a good idea. Fortunately (for me) everything I've heard about that line was highly positive so I guess I should thank my lucky stars that the majority of the internet seems to be atheist/agnostic (and a good chunk of it is very anti-religion, including a lot of my good friends).

Actually, everyone I've shown this to, Christian or not, thought that throw-away line was hilarious. The first time I saw it, I actually thought it was a translation of something said/printed in the show (like the police lines tape in Choco Sis). Perfect timing.

It was the eyecatch lines about balls that got more "meh"