Bakemonogatari - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[zato_1one]

Originally Posted by Lummie

Was thinking the same after watching this episode. Is she truly the best suited one for him to the degree to be able to make him happy? Her behavior/actions such as these are kinda off... to me. You can be cold or sarcastic but to go and hug the person drenched in your boyfriend's blood felt kinda like betraying him to me...... I just can't manage to understand her.

I can't give much opinion on this because I don't understand Japanese. But I don't feel that she betrayed him. If I'm not mistaken, Kanbaru proposed her love to Senjougahara. And Senjougahara denied it clearly. I think that it was a way for her to settle this account between her and Kanbaru. I took it as a good bye hug.

[ickem]

It was settled because Hitagi said that she'd have to kill Kanbaru if Koyomi is killed. It makes the monkey's paw unable to fulfill the wish since even if Koyomi is killed, Kanbaru can't be by Hitagi's side since Kanbaru would be dead too. This conviction also made it quite clear that Kanbaru wouldn't ever be able to take Koyomi's place even if he were to just disappear instead of being killed.

The hug at the end didn't really mean much, I figure that the animation team just wanted to make it more visually interesting. Just look at the opening sequence. Kanbaru frolics in her yuri heaven and tries to reach Hitagi only to be cut down by Hitagi from an unmovable mountain of stationary.

[serenade_beta]

Hmm... Well, it was okay. Most of the episode was good, but didn't really like the way it ended that much. The animation was nice, as expected(?).
The fact that Arararagi doesn't even die from something like that is... How do I say it... kind of tension-breaking. In other words, no matter what happens or how strong the enemy is, no worries, 'cause he won't die.

That Shinobu... Anything around her just leaves a dull question mark on my head. Not much is known about her, after all. I guess she was focused on the prequel, but I've never read it. Don't know anything, so even if you bring in stuff from that, you know...

I wonder how that arm even fits in those bandages...

[monir]

Originally Posted by apr

I'm sorry, what is your interpretation of the reason he goes through that door? To die?

Hi! Is this a trick question? Did I miss something? Look what you've done! You are making me doubt myself. What I personally think about Araragi has already been covered by Senjougahara in episode 5. Why Araragi went through the door here in this episode has been stated by Araragi himself when Oshino posed the similar question (like yours) to him. Why does he feel the need to help someone to such extend? Here is what Senjougahara said in episode 5 which pretty much sums up my thought about why he walked through the door, and why he would do it over and over again if he had to:

"I've finally realized something about you, Araragi-kun. You came calling for me the same day you found out about my problem. Why I wonder? Perhaps you helped me because it was me. But that wasn't the case. Nope, it wasn't the case at all. Araragi-kun will, in fact, save anyone in need."

Did I answer your question? If not, please clarify so I can take another shot. I should also warn you that I'm wrong a lot more than I'm right. In fact, I'm hardly ever right.

Originally Posted by Lummie

Was thinking the same after watching this episode. Is she truly the best suited one for him to the degree to be able to make him happy?

Yes... She likes him for the very reason that makes him so unusual and so abnormal. However, Senjougahara isn't exactly normal either. Remember in episode 3 what she proposed to him that she would help him in anyway she could. Because Senjougahara understands Araragi is going to help people in need she will continue to do whatever she can to support him in his quest. In this episode the only way she can help him to achieve his goal (which is to help Kanbaru) was to make amends with Kanbaru. Hence, the hug. There is another post by VCV that I completely agree with word for word which highlights why these two are suited for each other: the post. She will do what she can for Araragi without any second thoughts or doubts. Araragi understands it as well which is why, as one poster in the previous thread already pointed out to me, he lied to Senjogahara about how he got hurt in episode 6.

[ickem]

Originally Posted by monir

Hi! Is this a trick question? Did I miss something? Look what you've done! You are making me doubt myself. What I personally think about Araragi has already been covered by Senjougahara in episode 5. Why Araragi went through the door here in this episode has been stated by Araragi himself when Oshino posed the similar question (like yours) to him. Why does he feel the need to help someone to such extend? Here is what Senjougahara said in episode 5 which pretty much sums up my thought about why he walked through the door, and why he would do it over and over again if he had to:

"I've finally realized something about you, Araragi-kun. You came calling for me the same day you found out about my problem. Why I wonder? Perhaps you helped me because it was me. But that wasn't the case. Nope, it wasn't the case at all. Araragi-kun will, in fact, save anyone in need."

Did I answer your question? If not, please clarify so I can take another shot. I should also warn you that I'm wrong a lot more than I'm right. In fact, I'm hardly ever right.


Yes... She likes him for the very reason that makes him so unusual and so abnormal. However, Senjougahara isn't exactly normal either. Remember in episode 3 what she proposed to him that she would help him in anyway she could. Because Senjougahara understands Araragi is going to help people in need she will continue to do whatever she can to support him in his quest. In this episode the only way she can help him to achieve his goal (which is to help Kanbaru) was to make amends with Kanbaru. Hence, the hug. There is another post by VCV that I completely agree with word for word which highlights why these two are suited for each other: the post. She will do what she can for Araragi without any second thoughts or doubts. Araragi understands it as well which is why, as one poster in the previous thread already pointed out to me, he lied to Senjogahara about how he got hurt in episode 6.

Hitagi also pointed out in this ep that he'd still have gone into the room with Kanbaru even if he didn't have his healing powers.

[monir]

Originally Posted by ickem

Hitagi also pointed out in this ep that he'd still have gone into the room with Kanbaru even if he didn't have his healing powers.

Oshino was also conveying the similar thoughts to Araragi when he posed that question in their conversation at the bottom of the stairwell after Araragi let Shinobu suck his blood. The only question that I've for the time being is if he is an immortal? If he is not an immortal, then he volunteered for a prolonged period of pain and terror before the inevitable gruesome demise. He really didn't care if he died eventually. As long as he lived enough to help her out.

Can't wait for a re-viewing with the sub.

[ickem]

Originally Posted by monir

Oshino was also conveying the similar thoughts to Araragi when he posed that question in their conversation at the bottom of the stairwell after Araragi let Shinobu suck his blood. The only question that I've for the time being is if he is an immortal? If he is not an immortal, then he volunteered for a prolonged period of pain and terror before the inevitable gruesome demise. He really didn't care if he died eventually. As long as he lived enough to help her out.

Can't wait for a re-viewing with the sub.

The thing is that, after is first encounter with Kanbaru and monkey's paw, he figured that he had a good grasp of their power. It seems that the rainboots slowed her down a lot and some other stuff held her back as well if I remember right. Koyomi also thought that the increased abilities he got after having just fed Shinobu gave him the edge this time.

[monir]

Originally Posted by ickem

The thing is that, after is first encounter with Kanbaru and monkey's paw, he figured that he had a good grasp of their power. It seems that the rainboots slowed her down a lot and some other stuff held her back as well if I remember right. Koyomi also thought that the increased abilities he got after having just fed Shinobu gave him the edge this time.

That makes sense. Oshino, in fact, warns him in their conversation that even if he has increased the abilities borrowed from Shinobu by feeding her the extra amount of blood, Kanbaru's monkey paw more than likely will have the edge. The ominous forewarning comes a bit later when Oshino tells Araragi that no matter what happens inside after he passes through that door, he or Shinobu won't come to his rescue. How bad Araragi miscalculated was indicated when he tried to block a punch. His wrist was broken so badly that it was barely holding on and dangling from the skin.

[tsunade666]

The episode is epic worth the shot of watching it despite with no subs and even though I can understand a little bit of japanese that knowledge doesn't help me much on this type of show.

their is no subs yet and I think their is no good explanation yet on shinobu and koyomi. Based on what I read here that koyomi can get powered up by getting his blood sucked by shinobu. Right? and here's a question. Is koyomi a vampire or not? and what's the point of him paying oshino for the help if it ends like this..... I know shinobu needs blood and here's koyomi the most naive man I ever know become the blood bank for kawaii shinobu........ I read in the novel thread that she will die if she can't drink blood but its really hard for me to grasp their situation. well its not really the place for this question.
The second is more likely related to the episode. Even with my LITTLE knowledge on japs. Its hard to understand the part when hiitagi appears and start talking.... I understand a little but mostly not. I'd like to wait for the subs to come but if can someone summarize up what's she talking about is really a big help. And also why does blood drenced koyomi smiling their when he saw hiitagi. I know if you saw your GF you will be happy but I can't understand if I'm in the same bloody situation as koyomi.

[Miyuki-ism]

Sorry to break up the epic conversation and analysis of episode 8, but I'm still waiting for those damn subs. XD I watched episodes 1-7 again.

[zato_1one]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

The fact that Arararagi doesn't even die from something like that is... How do I say it... kind of tension-breaking. In other words, no matter what happens or how strong the enemy is, no worries, 'cause he won't die.

I think that makes sense. If I'm not mistaken. The way to kill vampire is cut off its head and/or destroy its heart. (Don't count some of those overpowered vampires in some series) He didn't die but he still felt the pain though. That was quite disturbing.

I hope that new OP doesn't delay Eng sub much. XD

[ClockWorkAngel]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

The episode is epic worth the shot of watching it despite with no subs and even though I can understand a little bit of japanese that knowledge doesn't help me much on this type of show.

their is no subs yet and I think their is no good explanation yet on shinobu and koyomi. Based on what I read here that koyomi can get powered up by getting his blood sucked by shinobu. Right? and here's a question. Is koyomi a vampire or not? and what's the point of him paying oshino for the help if it ends like this..... I know shinobu needs blood and here's koyomi the most naive man I ever know become the blood bank for kawaii shinobu........ I read in the novel thread that she will die if she can't drink blood but its really hard for me to grasp their situation. well its not really the place for this question.
The second is more likely related to the episode. Even with my LITTLE knowledge on japs. Its hard to understand the part when hiitagi appears and start talking.... I understand a little but mostly not. I'd like to wait for the subs to come but if can someone summarize up what's she talking about is really a big help. And also why does blood drenced koyomi smiling their when he saw hiitagi. I know if you saw your GF you will be happy but I can't understand if I'm in the same bloody situation as koyomi.

More than likely the reason why he paid Oshino was so that he would not stay a vampire (If you remember the preview to Koymoi Vamp at episode 1; as a vampire he was quite powerful). This is important because as a vampire he would need to suck people's blood. That is to say kill people; something he isn't ready to do at anytime.

More than likely his blood donations to our chibi Vampire will give him a slight boost (Lores differ wildly; so it depends on the author) but somehow Koyomi is immune to the effects of becoming a vampire and becoming blood dependent.

Koyomi is happy because he knows the Kanbaru would not be able to hurt Hitagi. And he's perhaps happy that Hitagi is finally owning up to her responsibility to Kanbaru. That and the fact that it meant he wasn't going to get anymore owned this episode.

[tsunade666]

I didn't quite get on what happen on the 1st episode because its too fast. And I didn't even think that koyomi can attack others. It didn't occur to me but I know he needs blood and that's the reason of help from oshino. But oh well thanks for the info it helps ease the pain of waiting for the subs.

[ickem]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

I think that makes sense. If I'm not mistaken. The way to kill vampire is cut off its head and/or destroy its heart. (Don't count some of those overpowered vampires in some series) He didn't die but he still felt the pain though. That was quite disturbing.

I hope that new OP doesn't delay Eng sub much. XD

Actually, Koyomi is not even close to being unkillable. He was actually pretty close to dying in this ep and had Hitagi not protected him, he would have died with the next attack.

[Zetsubo]

You guys who were yaking for a new OP

You finally got it....

Now wait... wait... wait.... wait.... for the subs to come out.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA

[kujoe]

Originally Posted by ickem

The hug at the end didn't really mean much, I figure that the animation team just wanted to make it more visually interesting. Just look at the opening sequence. Kanbaru frolics in her yuri heaven and tries to reach Hitagi only to be cut down by Hitagi from an unmovable mountain of stationary.

Actually, it does have meaning—especially for Kanbaru. It's basically your typical "Please understand; let's be friends" hug, and for some people that's much, much worse than being outright rejected, but for Kanbaru it's the release and closure she needs. Senjougahara's words are clear enough.

Moreover, from a visual standpoint it's also a bone thrown to the yuri fans out there. That's two birds with one stone, even though the OP shows otherwise. (Seriously? Jumping on lilies only to be cut down? Captain Obvious, is that you? )

Originally Posted by tsunade666

The second is more likely related to the episode. Even with my LITTLE knowledge on japs. Its hard to understand the part when hiitagi appears and start talking.... I understand a little but mostly not. I'd like to wait for the subs to come but if can someone summarize up what's she talking about is really a big help.

If I'm not mistaken, Senjougahara basically reminds Araragi of the promise they made before hooking up—a promise that he himself proposed—reminding him of how they wouldn't hide things from each other after the events of Mayoi Snail. She then goes on to say that Araragi deserves to be punished for breaking it himself (like severely and fatally), but takes it all back right away and forgives him.

At that point, Kanbaru suddenly resumes her attack, but Senjougahara steps in front of Araragi in order to stop her.


On another note, Araragi seems to know what he's doing when he faces Kanbaru. He locks onto to her arm, and starts kicking. Of course, he's still no match for that arm but he does seem to know a thing or two (or a lot) about fighting. Does he have experience in this area of some sort? I mean, besides the vampire incident from before.

[Malkuth]

Lacked the grand twist I came to expect after the last arc, but wins a lot of points from the psychotic protagonists, animated gore and Shinobou ... when will Kizumonogatari get animated, I want her adult version

From the dialogue I got (which is less than half), Hitagi owned the arc again, like with the previous

[Raiga]

Finally caught up!

New OP was cool but as everyone else as said, damn, that fight scene. Hardcore. Wacky blood colors, too.

Can't well judge my comprehension level but after reading through this topic I think I've got what happened. I like how seemingly insignificant details in previous episodes always come back in the resolution, in this case Senjougahara's "I'll kill whoever kills you" thing.

Now to wait on subs! And catch up on the rest of my anime backlog...

[qwertyman]

If there's one thing that bothers me about this episode, it's about how Senjougahara is so calm (again) at seeing a blood-covered Araragi. She know he can regenerate his wounds, but so far (at least in the anime) it's never been covered to what extent he can regenerate. And there was also that whole "I'll kill you tidbit" in the previous episode where Araragi complained about how Senjougahara would kill him, so there has to be a way to kill him.

Senjougahara doesn't even check Araragi's wounds or ask him if he's ok, although I guess since the lighting was bad she may have not seen the worst of it. Though it still bothers me that Senjoughara doesn't even bother with it.

Then again, he was able to get up with half of his intestinal tract missing a couple minutes later, so I guess it really isn't that bad.

[Raiga]

Well it has already been established that she has trouble showing emotion. And she did defend him with her own body a few seconds later. She really cares about him, it just... doesn't show in the conventional way, I guess. XD

Oh, also, people have been taking note of the lilies in the OP... I'm assuming there's some symbolism there that I'm missing?

EDIT: One Google later... lily = yuri. I get it now.