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View Poll Results: Aquarion EVOL - Episode 18 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 7 | 20.59% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 9 | 26.47% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 11 | 32.35% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 3 | 8.82% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 2 | 5.88% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 2.94% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 1 | 2.94% | |
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-05-01, 20:56 | Link #81 | |
Carpe Diem
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ||At the edge of finality.||
Age: 34
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-> Amata, Mikono, and MIX, were closed off people when the show started. They've since grown out of this, though Mikono has been relapsing because of "Kagura, I don't know!" -> Andy and Zessica started this show as open and eager, so to speak, and they've since started clamping up little by little because of their new emotions. I'll throw this out now. Amata has not *messed up*, and has never been in a situation like Andy. He's never done anything wrong to earn Mikono's ire, the man is a walking saint as far as this show has presented him. He's simply caught in awkward moments because of the drama aspect of this show and the personality they decided to hand to Mikono. Andy is not a saint, he's a horny teen and he made a genuine but unintentional mistake, and thinks that MIX hates him now. Andy is stuck and needs to talk, unfortunately, he needed something drastic to snap him out of his wallowing in self-pity. Zessica similarly needed something drastic and got it too. None of them are identical, but I have a hard time overlapping Amata with Andy, or Mikono with MIX.
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2012-05-01, 23:51 | Link #83 |
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The problem is that, back in Episode 17, Zessica cut Amata off before he could properly reply to her confession since she (likely correctly) thought that Amata was going to reject her. So partially because of that, there was no proper follow-up between the two over Zessica's confession to Amata. Amata never had a chance to let her down easily which might have been a painful but helpful watershed moment for Zessica.
Zessica figured that Amata was going to reject her, and thought she'd just skip that unpleasant moment entirely, but by skipping it she perhaps made it harder for her heart to move on. So I see Vena's point here. However, I don't think that Amata is entirely blameless here. Amata hasn't done anything wrong - he's never really put his foot in his mouth like Andy did, for example. But there's things that Amata's failing to do that he should be doing. I don't know if it's that Amata needs more spine, or if he just needs to learn the art of assertiveness, but his lack of decisive actions has certainly made things much more difficult for both Mikono and Zessica.
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2012-05-02, 00:15 | Link #84 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Amata should just hookup with Zessica.
Mikono must knows how he feels but she allways jumps to the wrong conclusion, runs off, wont listen to him and give him a chance to consider her own feelings. She also knows that he rejected Zessica because he wants her but she still does nothing. |
2012-05-02, 00:16 | Link #85 | |||
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York, NY
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I find it funny how people expect for Amata to go above and beyond for Zessica despite him not even holding her to a high enough regard to do that for her, and it also being incredibly unrealistic for him to try. Amata did his part when he rejected her, now Zessica needs to do her part and get over it. Amata doesn't need to say anything else to her on this matter, the subject is closed. He owes Zessica no further obligations. Quote:
Andy and Zessica are not much alike, when Andy realized that he liked Mix he chased after her, but after she turned him down he decided that he wouldn't case after such a cold woman. It was not until after he found out the reason for her behavior that he started to put a real effort into the chasing after her. In the previous episode Andy got upset not because he botched his confession and couldn't get his words across to Mix, who then got mad at him. Zessica on the other hand was flirting around with Amata, but unlike Andy she didn't have her eye on him, she was just playing around at Amata's detriment, because it amused her. However, once she realized that she liked him she clammed up and kept her distance. She had to be goaded into confessing to Amata, and once she did she fell into denial. Quote:
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2012-05-02, 00:40 | Link #86 | ||||
Carpe Diem
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ||At the edge of finality.||
Age: 34
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Amata didn't do his part because, as Ep. 17 showed, he didn't actually get to finish his part. Zessica was about to run off, he was about to chase her to explain everything and offer a conclusion, but that didn't conclude. No one is expecting Amata to go above and beyond, what is expected is him to finish what he started and he has not done so. The rejection is literally a single word exchange right now with one party having tried to flee, the other to follow and see that everything would be sorted out. This is Amata we're talking about. Quote:
When did Andy chase after MIX? I do not recall him actually pursuing her until he overheard about her problems and tried to be a good guy. And I don't recall even talking about any of these details, I mean I could just as easily question why you opt to forget that Zessica clammed up with good reason, she provided in Ep. 9 though the interviews did clarify the meaning. Not to mention you've completely disproportionated the time actually spent on Zessica's flirting for flirting sake (one episode). By Ep.7 when she's gone to him for "protection" from the ghost, some flags should have probably been thrown up that play and affection were already blending in her head/heart. They may as well have had Fudo quote Walter Anderson in Ep. 8: Quote:
That said, the point was not that Andy and Zessica are carbon copies, but that in this episode (note the word this) their developments were parallels of one another; they were both sinking ever deeper into depression. There may or may not be other parallels between the characters but I don't want to take the conversation in that direction. Quote:
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2012-05-02, 01:58 | Link #87 | ||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York, NY
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Zessica clammed up because she realized that she liked Amata, after half heartedly flirting with him for three episodes. No further reason was given besides that. I'm only judging the Zessica who we've seen in the series so far, not the Zessica who had her behavior explained away by the creators. She played around with him for 3 episodes not 1, so I wouldn't say I'm being disproportionate at all. Again my point still stands she played around with Amata, before she really started liking him. Quote:
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2012-05-02, 02:14 | Link #88 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
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And yet again it's somehow all Amata's fault.
Zessica ran off while Amata was trying to do a proper rejection. How is that Amata's fault? Sure, Amata is probably not at all experienced in stuff like this (neither is Zessica, apparently) and he wasn't as assertive as he should've been, but still, he tried and Zessica didn't want to hear it. How is Amata responsible for finishing the talk, when it was Zessica who ran off in the first place? I don't really understand why Amata needs to talk to Zessica either. He rejected her* she accepted that he doesn't love her (re: end of ep 17), end of story as far as Amata is concerned. Let's pretend that the Zessica in ep 18 was the result of a natural progression - she had still accepted Amata's decision. No-one forced her to stick around instead of trying to move on. I'm not saying one can't emphatize with Zessica but frankly, she brought this on herself. Amata owes her nothing. *Unless of course this is again just a big ~misunderstanding~ and after 17 episodes of nothing he suddenly developed feelings for her. In which case the show is trying to insult my intelligence. |
2012-05-02, 02:28 | Link #89 | ||||
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Amata hasn't spelled out anything concrete. This sort of thing needs to be handled in no uncertain terms. Quote:
Amata's failure to act decisively has allowed this situation to get out of hand. Granted that Kagura has interrupted him at many intervals, and so that excuses Amata some. But even so, Amata has had opportunities to resolve the love quad. Now, the real culprit is questionable writing, of course. But that's what is victimizing Zessica at least as much as it is Amata, so if you're going to be hard on her... Quote:
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So in reality Zessica was playing around with Mikono, imo. But after flirting with Amata for a little bit, she started to realize that she was enjoying it for its own sake, rather than simply as a means of teasing Mikono. And I think that it only took her an episode or so to realize that she liked Amata for his own sake. But it did take a few more episodes until her feelings for him became increasingly serious, and less flirtatious. It wasn't quite love at first sight, but I don't think all of the times she "played around with him" was purely for shits and giggles. I think that a lot of it (all but the first couple of times) was her acting out a crush on him that she herself wasn't fully recognizing as a crush until she started to reflect more on her feelings for Amata. As for Andy, I don't think he had his eye on Mix specifically at first. Andy was an equal opportunity skirt-chaser at first. In his own way, Andy spent a lot of time just "playing around", like Zessica did. Both of them eventually grew closer to another specific individual. This is part of the reason why I think there's some merit to the Zessica/Andy comparison. Both started lighthearted/playful, and shifted into something much more serious over time.
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2012-05-02, 03:08 | Link #90 | ||||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York, NY
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"Zessica I don't love you!!" so that she gets the point? As far as the narrative is concerned Amata did his part, he rejected Zessica. It's Zessica's fault, that she can't accept it and move on not Amata's. Quote:
While Amata's has failed to tell Mikono how he feels, he ultimately is not at fault, for not for either Zessica's or Kagura's position. Quote:
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2012-05-02, 05:28 | Link #92 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Besides, it's not like Zessica was unaware that he's into Mikono. That's why Zessica had been so depressed until ep 17, because she knew that he was all Mikono all the time. In 18 episodes he never showed any romantic interest in her and kept pursuing Mikono. And Zessica was more than aware of this. Hell, she didn't even try pursuing him except for that one half-sentence when she told him about Apollon & Sylvie and Kagura & Mikono. So it's not like Amata was giving Zessica mixed signals, leading her to believe she had a chance. Quote:
Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-05-02 at 05:47. |
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2012-05-02, 07:52 | Link #93 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
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kuromitsu: Triple_R's advice seems like a mix of doing the right thing and hedging one's bets ().
Anyways, I think with Zessica she's just acting as she said she would: she won't give up until she sees Mikono clearly reciprocate Amata's feelings (not just act jealous). I don't think there's much Amata can or should do about Zessica's situation beyond what he's already done, really, and for now the ball seems to be in Mikono's court. At the same time it's not as though Mikono's obligated to act any differently than she did before just because of Zessica. It might be *advisable*, but I don't see there being any obligation, either. |
2012-05-02, 08:59 | Link #94 | |||||||
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When somebody loudly and passionately confesses to you, I think that calls for an equally clear and concrete reply, and not just a simple hint. You give a hint for a hint, but if somebody gives you a clear-cut romantic confession then I think the right thing to do is to give them a clear-cut response. Now of course it doesn't have to be "Zessica, no matter what you do, no matter how you change yourself, I'll never love you, so get over me and move on." Just a simple "Zessica, I really value you as a friend, but I'm just not interested in you that way. Sorry." You know, just the classic "let her down easy". Look, you can't put aside the fact that they go to the same class together, and even regularly fight alongside each other in combat together! Let's say that the Yellow Ranger confessed to the Red Ranger, of the five/six-person Power Rangers team. I mean, that really is like what we're talking about here. This isn't something that can simply be hinted away, the two people are too associated with each other as it is. I think some people here aren't seeing the team/military side of things here. Would you want to be Pilot No. 3 of a three-way Aquarion Union with Amata and Zessica while their issues remain unresolved in the immediate wake of Zessica confessing to Amata? Amata clearing things up with Zessica wouldn't just be beneficial to her, it would also be beneficial to the entire military-based team that he and her are big parts of. Quote:
I truly don't get why you and kuro talk about Amata and Zessica as though they're two strangers to one another. Don't you think that simply being a reliable/trusted friend and combat ally to someone means you owe them a certain level of basic care and concern? Quote:
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I don't think Amata's done anything wrong here, but I can understand why Zessica might hold some small glimmer of hope inside of her heart somewhere. Quote:
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2012-05-02, 09:33 | Link #95 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
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you know apollo cared about reika/jun/pierre/sirius/tsugumi/rena all just as much as he did silvia. apollo was never obsessed with silvia. he wanted to protect her sure but if reika needed comfort after the whole sirius leaving thing, he gave it to her. it was episode 23 or whatever. he was just a nice guy despite the whole wild animal behaviour.
if amata can't even do that i don't know what kind of hero he is. he doesn't have to say any harsh stuff to let zessica down. all he has to tell her is i am sorry, i like you and consider you my friend. it can't be that difficult to do for him if he doesn't have any feelings for her right? |
2012-05-02, 09:36 | Link #96 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
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Triple_R: it's good reasoning but it's just not consistent with the way the show's inner logic seems to work.
The show's taken its own "military/fighting" angle extremely inconsistently. Mikono's sticking up for Kagura is the best example so far: on the one hand it's enough of an issue that when Amata starts talking to her about recent events, Mikono assumes that that's what he must've wanted to talk about. On the other hand, it's apparently not enough of an issue for Cayenne to ever bring up with her, it doesn't remove her from the active duty list, and at this point no one other than her and Amata are bothered by it. Same with Zessica's love declaration: despite making Aquarion go berserk, blowing up an island, and damaging one of the vectors (I think that's why they only have 5 in working order right now). If they were writing the military angle more seriously she'd be off the active duty list, or at least barred from further piloting with Amata, but instead Donar gives her a pass. That's just how this show works. I expect a similar level of inconsistency / "who-cares" to crop up next week with the way Amata paused mid-battle after seeing his mom's hologram floating in the clouds. As-is if I were in charge of neo-deava the three leads would all be off active duty for now: Mikono for sticking up for Kagura, Zessica for being a loose cannon, Amata for questionable mental status...but somehow I'm not seeing that happening. tl;dr: you can't really get very far applying military/combat/team logic in this show, it's just not something the writers care about even on their good days. |
2012-05-02, 09:41 | Link #97 | |||
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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You mean the shows nonexistent inner logic. ^^;; Re: Yunoha having no comment on Mikono protecting the guy who attacked the school and killed a number of their classmates (and also inadvertantly caused Jin's death). And so on and so on... Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-05-02 at 09:58. |
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2012-05-02, 11:09 | Link #98 |
Carpe Diem
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ||At the edge of finality.||
Age: 34
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I think this is where Triple_R and I are coming from, the anime (and the writing) have left that scene unfinished. We knew he was trying to chase after her to finish saying what he was going to say but the action, while initiated, hasn't resolved. I'm fine in saying he rejected her but even he was out to say a word or two more because he saw a problem with Zessica's reaction. If he's shown trying to do a step more but gets interrupted, I do not see the fault in us expecting him to finish what he himself started. Its not like we expect Amata to take a dive from a sitting position if he'd never moved from the bench, but he went all the way to the diving board only to get stopped halfway.
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2012-05-02, 11:18 | Link #99 |
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Join Date: May 2011
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It's bad writing for sure. The way that scene ends Amata and Zessica are both standing around as Mikono stomps off as per usual.
Regardless of whether or not Amata has some kind of duty to finish his conversation with Zessica, the fact that their conversation seemingly stopped there does seem *really* hard to swallow (especially since Zessica's lunch was on the ground so she'd be unlikely to leave immediately). Like, after she left I guess they just shrugged their shoulders and awkwardly walked in different directions, and didn't speak with each other until they had that banana-milk hot-tub session...sigh. That much is poor writing that strains suspension of disbelief. It's not an isolated incident, either, it's just more "unable to write certain scenes without tipping the character interactions in ways they don't want to go (yet)". |
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