Character Discussion - Kallen

[Rukia!]

Originally Posted by youngde

Willing to take Lelouch as is? She admitted in Turn 15 that she had been primarily using him as a told to die. It wasn't until she learned that Lelouch actually valued her that she changed her mind about dying.

Kallen, meanwhile, despite initially seeing Lelouch and Zero separately, eventually was able to reconcile the two in her heart and realized she had fallen for him (according to the director). Then Lelouch, apparently, told her that it was all a lie, and HE was the one that gave her the assurance that he was being truthful to her in the first place. She held on to hope longer than most of us would; she probably thought that, like most of his plans, Lelouch had some hidden motive. Which he then, as far as she could tell, revealed by blowing the crap out of a peace summit.

And how is not caring about the Rebellion a good thing? It's good that C.C. cared more about her wish to die than a Rebellion that was fighting an evil regime (i.e., cared about Lelouch's safety over his plan to create a peaceful world). And it's bad that Kallen has chosen to stay true to the ideals that Lelouch, himself, taught her rather than let her heart follow a man who appears to never have existed. That makes C.C. more worthy of Lelouch than Kallen.

I'm not trying to diss C.C. I actually think she's pretty cool, and she's had a tragic life that explains many of her undesirible features. The fact is, I think if Kallen and C.C. were real, they would probably find this whole Kallen vs. C.C. debate somewhat insulting since they actually have a fairly close, sisterly (albeit adversarial) relationship. In the scenes that they interact together (at least post season 1) they seem to be best friends (in an odd sort of way).

youngde, signing off.

aha! aha!
completely agree

now only expect to reach an agreement
Kallen and Lelouch ;________;

kalulu forever <3

[lovecakecookies]

Cant the "one more chance" song just apply to R2 as a whole, but not after episode 25?

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by lovecakecookies

Cant the "one more chance" song just apply to R2 as a whole, but not after episode 25?

It could have been but the lyrics are more likely to an epilogue that to anything else
The whole idea of "Thank you for your love" and that she is going to continue to live while always thinking about him and hoping to see him seems totally out of R2 since at this point...we don't (and she doesn't) know if Lelouch loves her, and she isn't returned in a normal life, so it doesn't really apply to R2 imo ^^

I could be wrong but it seems pretty much an ending song, and the fact that she will not be released before the end of CG isn't really sort of help to change my mind.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Tael

Have you seen the C.C. thread? Two people walking towards one another has been turned into a near would be sexual experience.

Come on. You know they were totally going to have sex right there in the hangar, if Kallen hadn't cock-blocked them.

The problem arises, and can be seen, is that if Kallen picks one or the other, people will bitch about her character (either selfish or stupid). She is a duality in that she has ties/bonds with both sides. She loves Lelouch, but her brother's dream and her 'family' stands (from her point of view) with the Order of the Black Knights. C.C. and Rolo have only ever had one allegiance, themselves. They do what they want to do with no restrictions, Rolo was tied to Lelouch, C.C. is tied to Lelouch. Kallen, simply, is tied to both Lelouch and the Order.

But just as she wants to stop Lelouch despite her love, shouldn't she want to stop the BK despite (or rather, because of) her loyalty? They are, after all, supporting a WMD spamming monster.

You bring up a good point as to why she is not let in to ZR, but then, why isn't Nunally also let into ZR. The fact that she is omitted does not mean that Lelouch thinks less of her, just as it does not necessarily mean that he thinks more of her or wishes to keep her out of it for her own good. It can be argued, more easily, for the latter, than the former as there is nothing to really point at the former as a possibility.

Agreed. It doesn't mean anything one way or another regarding his feelings. It certainly doesn't mean he loves her more.

Originally Posted by youngde

Willing to take Lelouch as is? She admitted in Turn 15 that she had been primarily using him as a told to die. It wasn't until she learned that Lelouch actually valued her that she changed her mind about dying.

That's exactly what I mean by "as is". As long as he holds up his end of the bargain, she doesn't care if he wants to lead a rebellion, have a quiet student life, or whatever the hell he could possibly want to make of himself. Kallen, OTOH, wanted Zero the miracle worker, hero, spirit, and brains of the rebellion. And Lelouch's misery be damned.

Kallen, meanwhile, despite initially seeing Lelouch and Zero separately, eventually was able to reconcile the two in her heart and realized she had fallen for him (according to the director). Then Lelouch, apparently, told her that it was all a lie, and HE was the one that gave her the assurance that he was being truthful to her in the first place. She held on to hope longer than most of us would; she probably thought that, like most of his plans, Lelouch had some hidden motive. Which he then, as far as she could tell, revealed by blowing the crap out of a peace summit.

Maybe, maybe not. Rolo certainly kept the faith to the end. Kallen, well, she went from loyal to him, to convinced he was a monster, to sitting the fence (during his month long absence), to leaning toward "bastard" (when she accused him of wanting power), to convinced he was a monster again. It's understandable, certainly, but it doesn't qualify her as someone who believed in him all that much, as some have claimed.

Heck, just compare with Sayoko. She still believes in him.

And how is not caring about the Rebellion a good thing? It's good that C.C. cared more about her wish to die than a Rebellion that was fighting an evil regime (i.e., cared about Lelouch's safety over his plan to create a peaceful world). And it's bad that Kallen has chosen to stay true to the ideals that Lelouch, himself, taught her rather than let her heart follow a man who appears to never have existed. That makes C.C. more worthy of Lelouch than Kallen.

Good, bad, that's how it is. I was answering to a comparison between Kallen and CC's attitude during Lelouch's ten minutes retirement.

And I'd be all for Kallen's staying true to her ideals, if her ideals didn't include supporting WMD usage on civilian population centers. That's the long and short of it.

The only reason I'm giving her a hard time about her lack of faith in Lelouch is in reaction to claims she's the one who loves him the most, or is the most loyal to him.

[Amaterasu Gate]

Originally Posted by lovecakecookies

Cant the "one more chance" song just apply to R2 as a whole, but not after episode 25?

Last time i checked it was Lelouch of the rebellion not Kallen

[lovecakecookies]

Originally Posted by Amaterasu Gate

Last time i checked it was Lelouch of the rebellion not Kallen

I meant about her character..

*sigh* I give up..

[lovecakecookies]

Originally Posted by Amaterasu Gate

Wow now this is something, someone actually forgot about what they posted

R2 as a whole, R2 AS A WHOLE!

OK... let me rephrase since other people got it, (thanks Lolipopo) but you didn't.. its ok, I think I might know why..

Her song... KALLEN'S song may apply to herself IN R2 as a whole.. as in what SHE has been doing in the whole season..

[Amaterasu Gate]

Originally Posted by lovecakecookies

OK... let me rephrase since other people got it, (thanks Lolipopo) but you didn't.. its ok, I think I might know why..

Her song... KALLEN'S song may apply to herself IN R2 as a whole.. as in what SHE has been doing in the whole season..

Wow, she got it, no surprises there.....

[lovecakecookies]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

Could you explain me the point about such an useless point ? If you read posts (something I doubt about) you should have see some answers to her posts which could have been make you understand the point of her post (And I'm sure you understood this firstly. But apparently your whole point is there to be irritating, while your attitude is in the same way of the troll above.)

This thread has already been closed once, and some people likes to talk about Kallen in sort of...peaceful way, so please, if what you have to type isn't more beautiful than a whithe page, don't bother yourself to post, thanks.

And yeah, Lolipopo got it. She got a brain, her.

And yeah LoveCookies, your point was pretty much clear, don't bother to pay attention to such posters.

Back to topic, where did people get those lyrics by the way ? This isn't the whole song, and I heard the first part, but those one...Kallen's song will not be released before the first october no ?

Yes, it will be released like 3 days after the series ends.. I think those are rough translations of the lyrics.. its weird that it hasn't been all leaked yet..

[xris]

Which part of the following do people not understand?

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Originally Posted by White Manju Bun

MOD POST

This being one of the most posted threads on all of AS it seems that even after infractions, warning, and deleting of posts, some people still dont seem to understand the RULES here. So here is a quick overview pulled from the first post of the Kallen thread...

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[SoldierOfDarkness]

Maybe, maybe not. Rolo certainly kept the faith to the end. Kallen, well, she went from loyal to him, to convinced he was a monster, to sitting the fence (during his month long absence), to leaning toward "bastard" (when she accused him of wanting power), to convinced he was a monster again. It's understandable, certainly, but it doesn't qualify her as someone who believed in him all that much, as some have claimed.

I'm wondering if that's the problem I am having with Kallen whose just so gung-ho in killing him that the world will be a better place when in fact he's been fighting to change it in the beginning and she was there to see it.

I mean really a guy doesn't just go from changing the world to becoming the next Julius Caesar who wants Dominance and not suspect that there was something else behind his motives.

Heck, just compare with Sayoko. She still believes in him.

Nothing matches with Jeremiah. The guy's life was completely ruined by Lelouch and his vendetta and he was experimented on and turned into a monster. Yet when he found out the truth he immediately swore loyalty to him.

[lovecakecookies]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

I'm wondering if that's the problem I am having with Kallen whose just so gung-ho in killing him that the world will be a better place when in fact he's been fighting to change it in the beginning and she was there to see it.

I mean really a guy doesn't just go from changing the world to becoming the next Julius Caesar who wants Dominance and not suspect that there was something else behind his motives.



Nothing matches with Jeremiah. The guy's life was completely ruined by Lelouch and his vendetta and he was experimented on and turned into a monster. Yet when he found out the truth he immediately swore loyalty to him.

Lets just hope she questions Suzaku in their confrontation at least.. like what are you guys doing or what they hell are you guys up to?

someone posted a screen cap.. that when Kallen questioned Lulu, he was biting his lip.. too bad that was the only time she questioned him...

[Amaterasu Gate]

I would like to go an episode without Kallen crying. It's pathetic. She totally can't control her emotions at all. Not an attractive quality for a supposed soldier.

She's too emotional. Suzaku is all business like when he does his fighting. Kallen scrunches up her features and growls in rage.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody

attempted translations for the "new" lines of one more chance

「ワンモアチャンス　見つめていて　信じた道　進むように」
「ワンモアチャンス もう一度だけ 生きてみるよ あなたの分も」
「Thank you for your love」(あなたの愛をありがとう)」(Thank you for your love)
「thank you for your love 忘れないから」(Thank you for your love, I won't forget)
「～心の人」(The one in my heart)
「約束をの中身探す　ように(？)　その日までは」(Seeking out for the promise till the day)
「前のあなたの姿をして」(....)<-yes, lelouch will be somewhere Kallen can't follow
「いつか追いつく」(One day I'll catch up with you)
「～いるんじゃないよと～」(You are there, aren't you)
「ワンモアチャンス　夜明けは来る　～　星達に」(One more chance the coming of dawn the stars)
「ワンモアチャンス　明日もまた輝いてね　空の上で」(One more chance tomorrow will shine again up in the sky)
「ほんとは会いたくて」(I want to see you again)
「あなたの胸で泣きたくて」(I want to cry in your heart)

Is this confirmed to be Kallen's song?

[youngde]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Heck, just compare with Sayoko. She still believes in him.


And I'd be all for Kallen's staying true to her ideals, if her ideals didn't include supporting WMD usage on civilian population centers. That's the long and short of it.

Sayoko was with Schneizel the past month and knows what he has planned. Plus, she lived w/ Lelouch for seven years. (I don't know if she knew if he was a prince or not.)

Kallen has no idea that Schneizel was planning to use WMD on all the civilian capitals (in the UFN anyway). Otherwise, I'm pretty sure that she would have been attacking both bastards that appear to be trying to take over the world.

C.C. has advantages that Kallen doesn't. She knows the truth of Geass from first hand experience. She knows the truth about Lelouch/Zero since pretty much the beginning. She didn't get all the information second hand like Kallen did (from Lelouch and C.C.). Lelouch shattered her perception of him and said all of it (including being her friend) was an elobrate lie--not to hard to believe from a person as intelligent as Lelouch. C.C. conveniently disappeared after that. Her reassurances that everything that had been told to her wasn't a lie were gone; as far as she knows, she's been under the influence of Geass the whole time (since what Lelouch and C.C. told her about Geass cannot necessarily be trusted). As far as I can see, she kept her faith alot longer than most people would have, so I'm willing to cut her a little slack.

She was the most faithful of the people who did not have first hand knowledge of what happened (who are basically only Lelouch and C.C.). Even Suzaku had to have stuff explained to him over the month they were planning their coup. I think that speaks alot for her.

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

I mean really a guy doesn't just go from changing the world to becoming the next Julius Caesar who wants Dominance and not suspect that there was something else behind his motives.

He told her that it has ALL been a game. I.e., from day one he's been player her. It's not that she believes he's changed from a nice guy to the next Attila the Hun. In her mind, the Lelouch she fell in love with never existed. He been playing her (and the BKs and the world) from the beginning.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by lovecakecookies

Lets just hope she questions Suzaku in their confrontation at least.. like what are you guys doing or what they hell are you guys up to?

Well if she does it's only going to be

Why do you fight? Blah blah blah, you traitor and trying to rule the world and all that crap.

And then Suzaku answers, "Because I want a tomorrow!"

And then Kallen says, "That's crap."

Toudo claimed that Suzaku's future was pathetic so Kallen's not going to be any different.

someone posted a screen cap.. that when Kallen questioned Lulu, he was biting his lip.. too bad that was the only time she questioned him...

I pointed that out actually. The scene focuses on Lelouch's lips and it looks as if he's biting his lower lip (As a way to restrain from answering her).

The moment he opens his mouth he'll spill the beans and he knows it.

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by yvj

Is this confirmed to be Kallen's song?

Since the refrain is..."One More Chance" and her song's title is too "One More Chance..."
But you are maybe wondering if those lyrics aren't fake ?

Hey, good point about the whole "biting his lips scene"; I only saw his mouth closed but finally...he really restrained himself. Good thing.

[lovecakecookies]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Well if she does it's only going to be

Why do you fight? Blah blah blah, you traitor and trying to rule the world and all that crap.

And then Suzaku answers, "Because I want a tomorrow!"

And then Kallen says, "That's crap."

Toudo claimed that Suzaku's future was pathetic so Kallen's not going to be any different.



I pointed that out actually. The scene focuses on Lelouch's lips and it looks as if he's biting his lower lip (As a way to restrain from answering her).



The moment he opens his mouth he'll spill the beans and he knows it.

Really, I didn't know until dec4rhaspody posted the screen cap.. but good catch..
If only he did... then all this drama/angst would have never happened..... *sigh* damn you Lulu and your perfect act/mask ..

Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody

Spoiler for stealing a screenshot from ays900-sama:

He was biting his lips when Kallen was asking him what he and Suzaku were up to.

that's what she posted..I didn't notice it till I saw that..

[Amaterasu Gate]

Sadly their confirmed correct!

[SoldierOfDarkness]

He told her that it has ALL been a game. I.e., from day one he's been player her. It's not that she believes he's changed from a nice guy to the next Attila the Hun. In her mind, the Lelouch she fell in love with never existed. He been playing her (and the BKs and the world) from the beginning.

When she first found out the truth he told her that she was a pawn in his game in S1 and she eventually got over it.

Now he says the same thing and she's in disbelief? Then as she walks away he tells her to "live on?"

Yeah that doesn't spell out that there's something more than what's being shown.

Besides wasn't he already taking over the world with the UFN? Charles caught him on that spot right there and now she's pissed off that he's on the other side doing the same thing?