Character Discussion - Kallen

[yvj]

Here's a fun assignment if you care I was listening to Astral Weeks by Van Morrison and I think the entire album fits Kallen and Lelouch's relationship very well . Certain songs more than the others

The title song Astral Weeks works very well in context.

Spoiler for Astral Weeks:

If I ventured in the slipstream
Between the viaducts of your dream
Where immobile steel rims crack
And the ditch in the back roads stop
Could you find me?
Would you kiss-a my eyes?
To lay me down
In silence easy
To be born again
To be born again
From the far side of the ocean
If I put the wheels in motion
And I stand with my arms behind me
And I'm pushin' on the door
Could you find me?
Would you kiss-a my eyes?
To lay me down
In silence easy
To be born again
To be born again
There you go
Standin' with the look of avarice
Talkin' to Huddie Ledbetter
Showin' pictures on the wall
Whisperin' in the hall
And pointin' a finger at me
There you go, there you go
Standin' in the sun darlin'
With your arms behind you
And your eyes before
There you go
Takin' good care of your boy
Seein' that he's got clean clothes
Puttin' on his little red shoes
I see you know he's got clean clothes
A-puttin' on his little red shoes
A-pointin' a finger at me
And here I am
Standing in your sad arrest
Trying to do my very best
Lookin' straight at you
Comin' through, darlin'
Yeah, yeah, yeah
If I ventured in the slipstream
Between the viaducts of your dreams
Where immobile steel rims crack
And the ditch in the back roads stop
Could you find me
Would you kiss-a my eyes
Lay me down
In silence easy
To be born again
To be born again
To be born again
In another world
In another world
In another time
Got a home on high
Ain't nothing but a stranger in this world
I'm nothing but a stranger in this world
I got a home on high
In another land
So far away
So far away
Way up in the heaven
Way up in the heaven
Way up in the heaven
Way up in the heaven
In another time
In another place
In another time
In another place
Way up in the heaven
Way up in the heaven
We are goin' up to heaven
We are goin' to heaven
In another time
In another place
In another time
In another place
In another face

Beside You: Not so obvious but you could make the connection.

Spoiler for :

Little Jimmy's gone
Way out of the backstreet
Out of the window
Through the fallin' rain
Right on time
Right on time
That's why Broken Arrow
Waved his finger down the road so dark and narrow
In the evenin'
Just before the Sunday six-bells chime, six-bells chime
And all the dogs are barkin'
Way on down the diamond-studded highway where you wander
And you roam from your retreat and view
Way over on the railroad
Tomorrow all the tippin' trucks will unload
Every scrapbook stuck will glue
And I'll stand beside you
Beside you child
To never never never wonder why at all
No no no no no no no no
To never never wonder why at all
To never never never wonder why it's gotta be
It has to be
Way across the country where the hillside mountain glide
The dynamo of your smile caressed the barefoot virgin child to wander
Past your window with a lantern lit
You held it in the doorway and you cast against the pointed island breeze
Said your time was open, go well on your merry way
Past the brazen footsteps of the silence easy
You breathe in you breathe out you breathe in you breathe out you breath in
you breathe out you breathe in you breathe out
And you're high on your high-flyin' cloud
Wrapped up in your magic shroud as ecstasy surrounds you
This time it's found you
You turn around you turn around you turn around you turn around
And I'm beside you
Beside you
Oh darlin'
To never never wonder why at all
No no no no no
To never never never wonder why at all
To never never never wonder why it's gotta be
It has to be
And I'm beside you
Beside you
Oh child
To never never wonder why at all
I'm beside you
Beside you
Beside you
Beside you
Oh child "]

Slim slow slider: It's about death I think it could fit Kallen's thought in episode 25 very nicely. Obviously certain words don't fit but if you can look beyond that maybe you can see it.

Spoiler for Slim slow slider:

Slim slow slider
Horse you ride
White as snow
Slim slow slider
Horse you ride
Is white as snow
Tell it everywhere you go
Saw you walking
Down by the Ladbroke Grove this morning
Saw you walking
Down by the Ladbroke Grove this morning
Catching pebbles for some sandy beach
You're out of reach
Saw you early this morning
With your brand new boy and your Cadillac
Saw you early this morning
With your brand new boy and your Cadillac
You're gone for something
And I know you won't be back
I know you're dying, baby
And I know you know it, too
I know you're dying
And I know you know it, too
Everytime I see you
I just don't know what to do

Anyway this is what happens when you invest too much time in certain characters. Maybe if I ever learn to make an AMV I can use some of these songs to put some more Kalulu stuff out there.

[Baixinho]

Originally Posted by Narona

Thanks for the infos, koshimizu


About the gumline, koshimizu posted this in the episode thread

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...50#post1946250

And also this a few minutes ago http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=1391

Yeah, agreed with the general opinion in this thread : Kallen's actual gumline being the line she said to CC in ep 24 would almost be offensive to her character. There are things that mattered way more to her than the fact that CC loves Lelouch. If at least they had kept the "I won't forgive you" part, I could have understood as it would have related to her hatred towards Lelouch. But I don't see how CC's feelings are as important to Kallen's character as the smile promise for CC, his brother's sins for Nunally or Anya's memories. If the gumline was actually changed to that, Kallen would seem a bit cheated compared to the other. So if they actually changed the line, I hope the new gumline will not be "Is it because you like Lelouch?", but something more related to Kallen's character ("what am I to you?" for example would fit a lot more).

Anyway, Narona when was KallenxLelouch as popular in France as CCxLelouch? From what I've seen, on French boards people hardly acknowledge Kallen for anything else than her piloting skills, and I hardly ever saw anyone commenting on this pairing :s. Even in the episode 22, it seems people couldn't care less about the kiss scene
Maybe Loli was referring to the board she was a member of ?

Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody

Now I fully realize that I dislike Rolo with a passion...

Speaking of R2's theme [Love and Bonds]
Imo the most important part of the CluClu development is C.C.'s "regeneration". Her falling in love with Lelouch/learning to love again, is part of it, hence I won't say she stays a witch in the ending.

As for Kallen, I'm very confused whether she fits in. To me it's seems her theme is more of a "believe in the path I chose" thing, which pretty much explains her "resistance" (Turn 25, against DB Lelouch).
Although Kallen and Lelouch share many similarities in motives, romance between them seems...insecure. Kallen is the insecure type, we often tend to forget that when we focus on her "learning about Lelouch in R2" instead, but her quest for the "real Lelouch" is accompanied with her insecurity which the disillusion in S1 brought about. *facepalm* And Lelouch is/was a pathological liar...*facepalm again*

I agree that it was the case until Lelouch's death.
But as we can see in the epilogue, once she did get evidence of who was the real Lelouch, the insecurity completely disappeared. Had Lelouch gave her this evidence earlier, the insecurity would not have been an issue anymore, and her trust in him would have been as absolute as the one she had in Zero in S1. So this insecurty issue is not something inherent to their relation, but something that only existed because of the context.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Aethos

So Lelouch only lasted five minutes? Poor Kallen. No wonder she was pissed. Preggers with Lelouch's baby and he didn't even get her off.

Oh, I don't know about that. He may lack stamina, but nobody's ever accused him of not knowing how to use his tongue.

[KaLuluclanleader]

maybe they just had a quicky.

[KaLuluclanleader]

you think lelouch made Kallen wear the bunny dress while she was in prison?

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

We'll have to rely on DVDs for those info, I guess.

Maybe I am out of line in thinking that plotpoints should be resolved to a satisfactory degree within a story and using side materials to either add abit more background or something. And I am not really just referring to the romance side plot but also for Geass, it's origins, possibly a resolution to that power, Charles and Marianne and Schneizel could have also used alot more development.

If an ambiguous end is what they wanted they should have just given tiny hints for fans to chew on and not waste time to develope a character along that line. That way we would have had more time for other major plot points and characters that were so underdeveloped that it was almost laughable.

[kir44n]

I am also of the opinion that not nearly enough was resolved with episode 25 of code geass. Mind, I myself prefer shows that close themselves as completely as possible, as opposed to ambiguous endings which may lead to a certain amount off personal bias. In any case, I feel the ending is not enough considering the sheer amount of loose threads left. Despite this being an Anime original story, it feels like an anime based off a manga that's still on-going, which to be honest, is absurd O_o

Maybe its the optimist in me, but I think they left themselves the perfect pseudo-ending to leave us in the dark with before an ova/movie.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by kir44n

I am also of the opinion that not nearly enough was resolved with episode 25 of code geass. Mind, I myself prefer shows that close themselves as completely as possible, as opposed to ambiguous endings which may lead to a certain amount off personal bias. In any case, I feel the ending is not enough considering the sheer amount of loose threads left. Despite this being an Anime original story, it feels like an anime based off a manga that's still on-going, which to be honest, is absurd O_o

Maybe its the optimist in me, but I think they left themselves the perfect pseudo-ending to leave us in the dark with before an ova/movie.

I totally agree with this. While the last epi was epic, there were some questions floating around. I won't be surprised if an OAV or movie will be announced soon. {a lot of cash-milk}

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by kir44n

I am also of the opinion that not nearly enough was resolved with episode 25 of code geass. Mind, I myself prefer shows that close themselves as completely as possible, as opposed to ambiguous endings which may lead to a certain amount off personal bias. In any case, I feel the ending is not enough considering the sheer amount of loose threads left. Despite this being an Anime original story, it feels like an anime based off a manga that's still on-going, which to be honest, is absurd O_o

Maybe its the optimist in me, but I think they left themselves the perfect pseudo-ending to leave us in the dark with before an ova/movie.

What even more interference from Sunrise? Absurd.

[kir44n]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

What even more interference from Sunrise? Absurd.

Spoiler for Previous Sunrise Projects:

Gundam Wing resurrected Zechs Marquis for the Endless Waltz Movie

Gundam Seed had TWO movies. And acouple resurrections.

I would say that Sunrise has built a decent precedent for moves such as this. And the ending for Code Geass seems tailor-built for such an activity as a OVA/Movie after leaving fans hanging for a bit -_-

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by kir44n

Spoiler for Previous Sunrise Projects:

Gundam Wing resurrected Zechs Marquis for the Endless Waltz Movie

Gundam Seed had TWO movies. And acouple resurrections.

I would say that Sunrise has built a decent precedent for moves such as this. And the ending for Code Geass seems tailor-built for such an activity as a OVA/Movie after leaving fans hanging for a bit -_-

Hence the at the end.

I know they've interfered heavily with CG from:
1.Sunrise:Sorry Taniguchi geass only works once or it'll be too easy for him.
.Taniguchi:*******!
2.Sunrise:Guess what Taniguchi?
.Taniguchi:What?
.Your so gonna love this were getting you an earlier timeslot 6 months later than originally planned so you have too tone down the darkness and redo the start for those that might have forgotten what happened.
.Taniguchi:*************************!
3.Sunrise:Heh Taniguchi about the end..
.Taniguchi:************ do whatever you want.
.Sunrise:Great Now we'll make the ending really ambiguous to make people desperste for the obvious cash-in movie. Oh and we'll change Kallens gumline while were at it.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by kir44n

Spoiler for Previous Sunrise Projects:

Gundam Wing resurrected Zechs Marquis for the Endless Waltz Movie

Gundam Seed had TWO movies. And acouple resurrections.

I would say that Sunrise has built a decent precedent for moves such as this. And the ending for Code Geass seems tailor-built for such an activity as a OVA/Movie after leaving fans hanging for a bit -_-

To be fair I think Bandai also pushed for it, I am wondering if it is not Bandai pulling their marketing crap rather then Sunrise.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

To be fair I think Bandai also pushed for it, I am wondering if it is not Bandai pulling their marketing crap rather then Sunrise.

I doubt Bandai would've let Sunrise blow up the LA if they had that much pull though. Seeing the newly introduced Primary Ace mech blown into millions of pieces 3 EP's after it was intoduced would hardly help its model sales.

[kir44n]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

To be fair I think Bandai also pushed for it, I am wondering if it is not Bandai pulling their marketing crap rather then Sunrise.

Thats actually a good point. Its typically the publishing company (such as bandai) that controls the purse-strings while the animation studio (sunrise) will typically have to cave to certain requests. Poor Kallen, so much hurt, and we still have no idea who to blame XD

[dec4rhapsody]

Some very...vulgar otakus are using this disgusting metaphor to describe the script of R2

Spoiler for you sure you wanna read?:

Tangiguchi had been suffering from constipation in the first 17/18 episodes then when he finally *got it out* his problem turned into incontinence....

Sadly, Kallen's storyline is sorta victimized for marketing....

[Baixinho]

Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody

Some very...vulgar otakus are using this disgusting metaphor to describe the script of R2

Spoiler for you sure you wanna read?:

Tangiguchi had been suffering from constipation in the first 17/18 episodes then when he finally *got it out* his problem turned into incontinence....

Sadly, Kallen's storyline is sorta victimized for marketing....

Sadly, there will always be some people to say that what you liked sucked. But it's only their opinion, it doesn't matter.

Whether Kallen's storyline was trashed for marketing purpose is still left up to interpretation though. Hopefully the release of the real gum cards may give us more info on this matter.


Concerning the additional material on DVDs (or even an OAV, we still can dream) I would like that to happen too. And it would at least from a marketing point of view legitimate that they made such an ambiguous ending.

[youngde]

Honestly, between the dropped kiss in season 1 to the (apparently) discarded gum line, I'm of the opinion that Kallen was meant to be the original LI from season 1, with C.C. supposed to be more of a maternal figure, but as the CluClu fanbase grew, they rewrote the script to make it more ambiguous. Kallen did have the longest, conspicuous development of what could be defined as a romantic sub-plot. It started w/ her schoolgirl crush on Zero and her love/hate relationship w/ Lelouch to her discovery that they were the same person, to only accepting the part that she believed in and trying to reconcile the two halves in her mind, to coming to care for both parts, to learning more about the real Lelouch, to finally accepting both halves and realizing she was in love with him, to feeling that the Lelouch she loved never existed and feeling confused and betrayed, to a hatred stemming from that betrayel but not being able to shake off her feelings completely, to FINALLY coming to understand what he was really doing and carrying her love for him in her heart and 'wanting to catch up to him.' It was a long and bittersweet journey; I'm of the opinion that it hasn't ended yet, but then, I'm a bit of a dreamer that way.

I like happy endings. Sue me. .

youngde, signing off.

[youngde]

Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody

Although Kallen and Lelouch share many similarities in motives, romance between them seems...insecure. Kallen is the insecure type, we often tend to forget that when we focus on her "learning about Lelouch in R2" instead, but her quest for the "real Lelouch" is accompanied with her insecurity which the disillusion in S1 brought about. *facepalm* And Lelouch is/was a pathological liar...*facepalm again*

There's no doubt that Kallen was insecure for most of the show, but she finally worked up the courage to ask Lelouch what he thought of her by episode 19 (albeit at gunpoint). She was seriously shot down at that point, but even pathological liar, Lelouch allowed his feelings to show through (whether platonic or romantic) with his 'live on' statement (granted he was sure he was going to die at that point).

Then Kallen actually became bold enough to show her feelings by kissing him, hoping that he would open up to her and tell her the truth. I think it's fair to say at that point that her love for Lelouch overcame her insecurities about her own feelings; she just felt unsecure about his and wanted to get confirmation one way or the other (LIKE THE REST OF US). Unfortunately, the pathological liar Lelouch at this point couldn't lie to Kallen anymore, so he had to force himself to stay silent because of his feelings for her (again whether platonic or romantic). He couldn't allow her to follow him and being forced to die or live in hiding like him and Suzaku. He wanted her to 'live on' w/ her mother and their friends from Ashford in a peaceful world.

In the end, she understood that their motives and their hearts had been the same all the time. She understood that he made the sacrifice of being reviled by the world for her (and others), and she will carry that with her forever.

youngde, signing off.

[blottyparchment]

Some of Kallen's fans are pissed off in 2ch because SE4, in which yankee Kallen is on the cover with a fruity-looking Lelouch, aside from Kallen's image song, doesn't have Kallen in it at all. They expected yankee Kallen and Lelouch to have interactions in the track about Lelouch and his part time jobs but it's really C.C. who appears, along with Rivalz and they felt they were cheated into buying. I admit, that track was quite entertaining though. I made a summary in the drama cd thread, for those who are interested.

Also, most of the japanese fandom who used to support KallenxLelouch seemed to have settled for KallenxGino midway through the second season and draw more Kagino fanart recently Where you'd expect some KallenxLelouch fanart, you'd only find Kagino now...

[youngde]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

Hence the at the end.

I know they've interfered heavily with CG from:
1.Sunrise:Sorry Taniguchi geass only works once or it'll be too easy for him.
.Taniguchi:*******!
2.Sunrise:Guess what Taniguchi?
.Taniguchi:What?
.Your so gonna love this were getting you an earlier timeslot 6 months later than originally planned so you have too tone down the darkness and redo the start for those that might have forgotten what happened.
.Taniguchi:*************************!
3.Sunrise:Heh Taniguchi about the end..
.Taniguchi:************ do whatever you want.
.Sunrise:Great Now we'll make the ending really ambiguous to make people desperste for the obvious cash-in movie. Oh and we'll change Kallens gumline while were at it.

I've always failed to see how killing 10 million+ people in a horrible explosion, giving Kallen and Suzaku mechs that allow them to destroy entire armies on their own and impaling the lead of show w/ a sword to be 'toning down the darkness.'

Originally Posted by kir44n

Spoiler for Previous Sunrise Projects:

Gundam Seed had TWO movies. And acouple resurrections.

Spoiler for other series:

If they resurrect Lelouch ala Mu La Flaga (i.e., captured by the enemy, losses memories and comes back on the other side wearing a crappy mask), I'm am going to officially declare it to be the lamest thing ever.

Originally Posted by blottyparchment

Some of Kallen's fans are pissed off in 2ch because SE4, in which yankee Kallen is on the cover with a fruity-looking Lelouch, aside from Kallen's image song, doesn't have Kallen in it at all. They expected yankee Kallen and Lelouch to have interactions in the track about Lelouch and his part time jobs but it's really C.C. who appears, along with Rivalz and they felt they were cheated into buying.

I'm actually pissed at that myself. After the lack of Kallen/Lelouch interaction in the second 1/2 of the season, they dangle what appears to be a nice piece in front of us and then screw us over. The concept of a yankee Guren is kinda entertaining though, but they should have had yankee Kallen in both skits. It's her on the freaking cover for crying out loud.