[MANGA] Bleach Chapter 340 Discussion

[Zestelne]

Has this spoiler actually been confirmed?
I'm not 100% sure of it's accuracy... especially as it's supposed to be on hiatus, and if you look at that chapter; there is a LOT of content there. Just under half of that information would take up a chapter at least I would have thought... and all this was done in under a week?
Not convinced.

Although if it is true, more for us I suppose.

I like the suggestion of a hollow-hime. Now THAT might actually make me like her a little... maybe.

Orihime has at least had her soul knocked out of her body... and I'm sure if she had died at some point, she would become attached to the world and therefore end up being a hollow... her feelings would certainly shift her more to the hollow side rather than to Soul Society (Emohime, hehe).
We don't know the full abilities of Aizen's zanpakuto and such, so I think it is entirely possible for her to be vizardised...

On the subject of vizards... if Ulquiorra acted before like he could make Ichigo come to their side, why not the rest of the vizards?
That could explain a correlation between the vizards trying to help Ichigo and potentially them being on the bad side.
They even said to Ichigo that he didn't belong with them (meaning Soul Society?).

Only time can tell.

[Freya]

Originally Posted by Zestelne

Has this spoiler actually been confirmed?
I'm not 100% sure of it's accuracy... especially as it's supposed to be on hiatus, and if you look at that chapter; there is a LOT of content there. Just under half of that information would take up a chapter at least I would have thought... and all this was done in under a week?
Not convinced.

Although if it is true, more for us I suppose.

I like the suggestion of a hollow-hime. Now THAT might actually make me like her a little... maybe.

Orihime has at least had her soul knocked out of her body... and I'm sure if she had died at some point, she would become attached to the world and therefore end up being a hollow... her feelings would certainly shift her more to the hollow side rather than to Soul Society (Emohime, hehe).
We don't know the full abilities of Aizen's zanpakuto and such, so I think it is entirely possible for her to be vizardised...

On the subject of vizards... if Ulquiorra acted before like he could make Ichigo come to their side, why not the rest of the vizards?
That could explain a correlation between the vizards trying to help Ichigo and potentially them being on the bad side.
They even said to Ichigo that he didn't belong with them (meaning Soul Society?).

Only time can tell.

being on hiatus just means its taking a break. doesnt mean the chapter was never done or anything.

[WONDERMIKE]

Originally Posted by Glacial

- He is Szayel's subordinate, and the Exequias are his to command, that tells you a LOT about their power levels

I had the impression the Exequias were a seperate unit, free to command by any Espada but not without notifying Aizen about it/getting his authorization. Strong enough to take down at least Privaron.

Sad but true Rukia will take him down with just her Shikai, an opponent who was meant to be strong enough do deal with ppl Ichigo had to use his bankai on. So I fell for the hype :/ I really wanted the Exequias to be the Waffen SS of Hueco Mundo

[Glacial]

Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE

I had the impression the Exequias were a seperate unit, free to command by any Espada but not without notifying Aizen about it/getting his authorization. Strong enough to take down at least Privaron.

Actually, you have a point, as Aizen did ask "Who ordered the Exequias to kill?"

my bad ;D

As for taking out the privaron....they seem to only go after those who have been severely/mortally injured from battle, with the exception of Ichigo. It makes me wonder how Dordonh would've done vs. Rudobon were he in a better condition

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

not really... for one thing, Ichigo basically used everything he had to beat Grimjow... he shouldn't be able to beat Noi much less Ulq... before his fight with grimjow, even if he could use his mask non-stop he would not have stood a chance against ulq as his mask was barely able to damage ulq or block his attacks and ulq still had his release in waiting

right now, it sounds like Ichigo is fighting, without his mask, at the same level that he fought Ulq last time WITH his mask... in the last fight he used the mask to launch an attack that was blocked by ulq's bare hands and then he used the mask to defend against his cero and wound up bloodly and bruised... it sounds like he is performing the same, but without his mask... and one thing we know from his second encounter with grimjow is that their is a very large power gap between ichigo and vizard ichigo... apparently, it seems like beating grimjow was enough to close that huge gap; not to mention that now he can use the mask for a long time

Agreed, 100%

One minute Ichigo just pulls a trick out of the hat and manages as a last final strike to break Laceracion then without no training at all he gets healed up goes to fight Ulquiorra and without his mask in bankai, who btw wasnt even a match for Ulquiorra's HAND when he had his mask, can suddenly hold his own when Ulquiorra takes out his sword which is meant to act as an amplifier of Ulquiorra's power. Him taking out his sword should leave blood coming out of every corner of Ichigo, if Ichigo had his mask on fair enough he might have gotten a bit stronger after his Grimm fight but he skipped one level (Nnoitora) and was able to fight against Ulqui with a sword only getting a few cuts and bruises?

I swear unless someone tells me that before the battle Rukia or whoever used: Attack+20, Enhance Weapon+15, Enhance Magic+15 Defense+20, HP+20, Magic Defense+20, I do not accept that this is not plotkai or hack, unless Ulquiorra gets a single drop of blood from his face or a strand of hair cut when in a badass way says: 'Human know your place in this world' and starts going crazy

[WONDERMIKE]

All we can do is speculate about this, but I think Szayel sent them there when the Privs were still fighting and when he had no idea of the outcome. With that in mind I guess he was pretty sure they could handle the situation as he couldn't know if the Privs would get beaten or if the intruders would go for the kill(then his precious bodies would have vanished), so the Exequias had to able to get these bodies no matter what.

What we know is Szayel didn't want to go there himself, maybe because of Aizen's orders. And he thought he could order the Exequias without being caught. He even fought Renji, Ishida & Co with the perfect excuse as they came to his place "on their own", technically at least

[Zu Ra]

Some clarifications are needed here . Firstly Inoue entered Hueco Mundo as human. So speculations seem very far-fetched, of her turning into a hollow or a vizard .To tun into both of this entities you need a soul more importantly for a vizard a shinigami. Wont even touch Orhime getting impregnated with a stick as its nothing but massive laughs .

Secondly regarding Exquias the had two set of orders . The first order was to execute/strike Ichigo when he showed any sign of weakness (chapter 255) . They were never sent to execute Privaron . Dol Donii opposed them, refused to move out of there way so they engaged him (Chapter 254). At that point there orders were to never excute Dol . When they did .... Szayel found the vanquished Privaron aided Szayel's research, most likely so he gave a second set of orders to bring the fallen Privaron .

When Exquias meet up with Cirucci its pretty clear the exact wording used are We have come to claim its better if you came quietly (Chapter 259). The wording used for Chad and Gamabatein are harvest . (Chapter 298)

[Shadow Angel]

I wonder if this fight will turn out to be like the Ichigo vs Byakuya fight. Ichigo will do ok for a while then start to get his ass kicked by Ulq. Then Ichigo finally decides to go hollow which will some how give him an even more. Massive power increase than he already seems to have gotten. Yet somehow something new will happen in his hollow form which will lead to his win.

[Thewanderer]

I think that either Ichigo or Orihime will be hollowfied after this fight. If Ichigo, it'll be because his inner hollow took control finally. If Orihime, it'll be because of Ulq.

And mark my words, if Ichigo will go full hollow, his next powerup will be Arrancarization.

[tensashinigami]

i know one thing, someone need a new scanner because that quality of that pic is very poor.

[Amirali]

I find it interesting that Ichigo went Vaizard almost right away against Grimmjow, but is sticking to bankai against Ulquiorra.

[Glacial]

Originally Posted by Amirali

I find it interesting that Ichigo went Vaizard almost right away against Grimmjow, but is sticking to bankai against Ulquiorra.

lol! This is a peculiar thing.

I actually think that the amount of time he lasts without the mask (charging up reiatsu maybe?) determines how long he can keep it on, with an exponential increase. Every time he donned his mask immediately, it broke pretty fast, right? The only exception is vs. Dordonh, but he actually took his mask off himself, not let it break.

@Cub-sama,

When did Ichigo ever defend against one of Ulquiorra's attacks with his mask on? The only time he has used his mask vs. mr. 4 was when he stunned him with a strong Getsuga for about 15 seconds...it broke right after, remember? :P
and ok, he put on his mask for a very brief moment to take less damage from the cero that time, but you mentioned a hand :|


IMHO (expecting flames guys, don't disappoint!), I think Ichigo's performance so far (i.e. THIS FIGHT) vs. Ulquiorra has little to no plot armor involved. Of course, the counter to this is "lol explain how he took that cero without the mask." I say that the last (and only) time he took Ulqui's cero, he was worn out from Dordonh's fight...less grasp on reiatsu to defend himself, simple as that.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Glacial

When did Ichigo ever defend against one of Ulquiorra's attacks with his mask on? The only time he has used his mask vs. mr. 4 was when he stunned him with a strong Getsuga for about 15 seconds...it broke right after, remember? :P
and ok, he put on his mask for a very brief moment to take less damage from the cero that time, but you mentioned hands :|


IMHO (expecting flames guys, don't disappoint!), I think Ichigo's performance so far (i.e. THIS FIGHT) vs. Ulquiorra has little to no plot armor involved. Of course, the counter to this is "lol explain how he took that cero without the mask." I say that the last (and only) time he took Ulqui's cero, he was worn out from Dordonh's fight...less grasp on reiatsu to defend himself, simple as that.

May want to reread his post, his mention of "hands" was refering to how Ulq blocked one of ichigo's attacks

and you are forgetting one very key thing which is that Ichigo needed to go all out just to beat Grimjow... Knowing that alone tells us that he should not be able to defeat Noi, much less beat Ulq

Originally Posted by Kakashi

Also Ulquiorra likes to say things and ask questions for the sole purpose of seeing how the person he speaks to reacts to them, so you can't necessarily assume that what Ulquiorra says here is what he believes. Remember that just a chapter ago Ulquiorra told Orihime that her usefuless to Aizen was at its end, and she would be left to waste away. It's clear that this wasn't the case, he only wanted to see if she would show fear.

Y'know, that might be something i could buy if Ulq actually had a history of "LYING to see reactions"... if i recall this would be the only case where he lied to see a reaction... any other time he was seeing a reaction he was speaking the truth or atleast what he believed to be true (such as Rukia's "death"); such as when he told Ichigo that he was the one that brought Orihime to HM, or telling Orihime what he thinks of her friends' efforts... it's one of those things that needs development on; we see 2 or 3 times in the past where Ulq lies just to test a reaction and then when we see him talk to Orihime we can believe he might be telling the truth or he might be exploring his curious habit

It's the kind of storytelling needed to prevent things from looking like they were pulled out of nowhere.... i guess you could be right about what Kubo is doing and is just doing it in a very slow and annoying way... It may be because he's been feeding so much information without giving us much reason to think they are lies that we are loosing track of what's going on; and as such the plot feels confused... things that would help is stuff like what i said above with knowing that Ulq makes a habit of lying, and possibly also the characters in the story coming out and questioning what's going on... For instance, Orihime could question Ulq what exactly is planned for her, as first she is told she is their to serve Aizen, then told she is going to die, and now being told she is gonna join them... Ichigo as well could question Ulq why the hell he is still holding on to Orihime if she is supposedly no longer of use to Aizen... if the characters raise these questions(questions that it would be in character to ask) then it tells the readers "wait a sec, something's not right here... don't know what it is, but something more must be going on here"... i think i might feel a lot more better if all we got was, while Ichigo was on his way to save Orihime, someone saying "-but if she's no longer useful to Aizen, then why did they bother taking her again"... it's kinda like when Hitsuyga questioned the letter that Momo got from Aizen

[Glacial]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

May want to reread his post, his mention of "hands" was refering to how Ulq blocked one of ichigo's attacks

He said "hand," and since Ulq used both, it was misleading to me
Hell, Ulquiorra couldn't even block it with BOTH hands, he said it himself lol
It ripped up his espada uniform as well, I would definitely have to say he didn't block the attack, even if it didn't wound him as badly (well, at all) as it did Grimmjow

Originally Posted by Slayerx

and you are forgetting one very key thing which is that Ichigo needed to go all out just to beat Grimjow... Knowing that alone tells us that he should not be able to defeat Noi, much less beat Ulq

Yeah, I'm aware of the whole power levels thing, but those who assume the espada number dictates everything are oversimplifying them.

Each espada has its own unique battle capabilities, and every single one has a weak spot. Remember what Ishida said when they first arrived at Hueco Mundo? Battle match-ups mean everything in a fight.

IMHO Ichigo took so much to defeat GJ because GJ was faster than him in his Resurreccion, WAY faster. Since Ichigo's Bankai's main attribute is speed, not power, anyone who's faster than him is gonna tear him apart...

Ichigo does best vs. opponents who are slower so he can utilize his bankai's speed the most, and get off good hits (i.e. Byakuya).

My personal prediction is: Ulquiorra doesn't seem to specialize in speed, but foreseeing what's to come and knowing how to defend against it. If Ichigo is unpredictably strong enough, he can defeat Ulq....and yes, I'm referring to plotkai in part here lol

@ Langus:

Spoiler for space:

Originally Posted by Langus

Truth is, we don't know WHAT Ulquiorra specializes in ... Whether you're moving in one direction or the other, no matter which way you're going it's 100% speculation.

Exactly. It's too soon to know anything for sure about how things will wind up, but I'd say it's safe to assume Ichigo will do better this time than their encounter an hour or two ago.

I just want to defend the notion that Kubo is being more realistic in terms of power levels than (a lot of) people are giving him credit.

"Omg he only got wounded from a point-blank cero, he didn't die, that is some serious plot armor!"

Okay, he is fully healed this round, which even makes his defensive capabilities much stronger than when he's recovering from using the mask.
Besides, if Ichigo died, it would be the end of Bleach, since c'mon, he's the shonen hero >_>


Now in 341, if say, Ichigo's Getsuga slices Ulq's arm off, then yeah, I'm calling bullshit too. But so far, power levels are moderately intact, in terms of Ulquiorra and Ichigo.


Now as for speculating about Ulq's battle style, I'm making an assumption based on the personality of his character which we've seen. He has definitely proved to be on the defending end of attacks way more times than on the attacking end. This is because he's not an aggressive character, but an analytical and observative one. He sits and waits, and lets the enemies go on the offensive before making his counter (if he even does that). He's a lot like Szayel in this sense, except his reasons for analyzing are not scientific, but personal, possibly even battle-oriented.

Let's take a few examples we've seen to support the whole personality-battle specialty relationship:

Grimmjow has ALWAYS been hot-headed and quick to violate our protagonists (lolholesinRukia). He is hasty to attack and doesn't hesitate to speak his mind; hell, he doesn't even hesitate to watch his mouth LOL.. This infers that he rushes into things, and what do you know, his speed is his greatest attribute.

Nnoitra values battle itself, he lives to prove and/or test himself as the strongest, and he even died from this philosophy. It's only natural for someone who is such a barbarian, thirsting for battle, to have incredible brute strength. Since he nearly killed Kenpachi (and got him to ADMIT IT), someone well known for never being fazed by brutal injuries, I'd definitely have to say Nnoitra's raw power is his greatest attribute.

Anyways, I'm sure plenty of people will disagree with the above few paragraphs, but let me just say these are my personal speculations and I don't wish to use them to support anything serious. Point of it all? Speculation's fun!

btw you forgot his encounter with Grimmjow too (the "Blow me" encounter), and with four times we've seen him, I'd definitely argue we have gotten a good glimpse of his battling habits

Oh yeah, and no one's ever gonna convince me that Ulquiorra blocked Ichigo's Getsuga back before he nearly killed our hero, as Ichigo knocked him down for about 15 seconds...

[Langus]

Truth is, we don't know WHAT Ulquiorra specializes in because most his his experiences with Ichigo and Co have been one-shot deals.

1.) Urahara - he flipped his arm, stopped Benihime's attack and got out of there
2.) SS Shinigamis - he one shot sliced and diced, talked shit to Orihime and then got out of there
3.) Ichigo in HM - he blocked his attack, ceroed, kicked, hand in-chested him and then walked away.

#3 is by far is the most extensive fight we've seen him in and considering he didn't even unsheath his sword we have absolutely no idea what his abilities are, what his power level potential is or what the chances of Ichigo defeating him are. Whether you're moving in one direction or the other, no matter which way you're going it's 100% speculation.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Agreed, 100%

One minute Ichigo just pulls a trick out of the hat and manages as a last final strike to break Laceracion then without no training at all he gets healed up goes to fight Ulquiorra and without his mask in bankai, who btw wasnt even a match for Ulquiorra's HAND when he had his mask, can suddenly hold his own when Ulquiorra takes out his sword which is meant to act as an amplifier of Ulquiorra's power. Him taking out his sword should leave blood coming out of every corner of Ichigo, if Ichigo had his mask on fair enough he might have gotten a bit stronger after his Grimm fight but he skipped one level (Nnoitora) and was able to fight against Ulqui with a sword only getting a few cuts and bruises?

There tends to be some things overlooked about the first Ulq vs. Ichigo battle:

• Ichigo was already tired from using the mask against Dol Doni
• Ulq waited until the mask broke (leaving Ichigo in even worse shape) to attack

I mean Ulq beating Ichigo the way he did was not that different than Grimm about to defeat Ichigo during their second fight. The result wasn't due to Grimmjow being stronger than Ichigo, rather Ichigo was weakened by the loss of the mask. I still think Ichigo wasn't on par with Ulq at that the time he got beat by him, but I don't think the mismatch is that huge.

Originally Posted by Amirali

I find it interesting that Ichigo went Vaizard almost right away against Grimmjow, but is sticking to bankai against Ulquiorra.

The second fight, yes. Their last fight, no. He went vizard after Grimm fired grand cero.

[HayashiTakara]

Does this mean that Shonen Jump is cracking down on the illegal distribution of early copies in Japan? D:

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

There tends to be some things overlooked about the first Ulq vs. Ichigo battle:

• Ichigo was already tired from using the mask against Dol Doni
• Ulq waited until the mask broke (leaving Ichigo in even worse shape) to attack

I mean Ulq beating Ichigo the way he did was not that different than Grimm about to defeat Ichigo during their second fight. The result wasn't due to Grimmjow being stronger than Ichigo, rather Ichigo was weakened by the loss of the mask. I still think Ichigo wasn't on par with Ulq at that the time he got beat by him, but I don't think the mismatch is that huge.

Yeah I know he was tired from Dol Doni but if you even look at his battle with Grimmjow you should know he should not be able to fight Ulquiorra at this level, also Glacial, Grimmjow is fast, much faster than Ichigo expected which is why when he ran away he didn't realize it would take less than a few seconds for him to appear again, Ulquiorra is fast, he is strong, smart and calculating IMO he is more like an assassin of LN, also I can accept that he was tired during their last encounter so it is only natural for him to be weaker but he was fully healed when he faced Grimmjow and there he went all out so for him to be able to hold his own this good something must of happened.

However looking back Ichigo's resolve has strengthened since then and with Ichigo his resolve makes him stronger, the weaker his resolve the weaker he is, right now he is fully focused on saving Orihime which is why I think Ulquiorra said Is it because of that woman?

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Yeah I know he was tired from Dol Doni but if you even look at his battle with Grimmjow you should know he should not be able to fight Ulquiorra at this level, also Glacial, Grimmjow is fast, much faster than Ichigo expected which is why when he ran away he didn't realize it would take less than a few seconds for him to appear again, Ulquiorra is fast, he is strong, smart and calculating IMO he is more like an assassin of LN, also I can accept that he was tired during their last encounter so it is only natural for him to be weaker but he was fully healed when he faced Grimmjow and there he went all out so for him to be able to hold his own this good something must of happened.

However looking back Ichigo's resolve has strengthened since then and with Ichigo his resolve makes him stronger, the weaker his resolve the weaker he is, right now he is fully focused on saving Orihime which is why I think Ulquiorra said Is it because of that woman?

Just pointing out that Ichigo winning against Ulq maybe isn't as far-fetched as it seems at first glance (because we know that a lot of people already believe that Ichigo winning will be nothing short of a plot hole). Yeah, he struggled against Grimmjow, but remember that Grim was an opponent able to fight well enough to catch even Ulq completely off-guard with a trap, even if maybe he wasn't strong enough to outright match him. And Ichigo was able to totally overpower Grim with his mask almost completely crumbled and Grimmjow still released.

All and all, saying Ichigo shouldn't be able to match against Ulq because he struggled against Grimm is like saying he shouldn't have been able to match Kenpachi because he struggled against Renji. Maybe it is a little illogical, but if it happened before why not again? Ichigo can fight--and win-- against two opponents of radically different strengths within just a few hours. Like you mentioned, it's largely a matter of his resolve.

As for Orhime's stake in this, I have no idea what Ulq is talking about. But I think a lot of folks had the feeling that Aizen's talk about her being useless didn't quite sync up. I still have the feeling that Orhime will be involved with the creation of the ouken somehow...

[Mr. DJ]

As for Orhime's stake in this, I have no idea what Ulq is talking about. But I think a lot of folks had the feeling that Aizen's talk about her being useless didn't quite sync up. I still have the feeling that Orhime will be involved with the creation of the ouken somehow...

c'mon Evil-Hime...