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Old 2013-08-04, 00:32   Link #281
iamadooddood
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^Seems like we have another ABS right here.

Can't seem to find the page containing the current standing though. :/
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Old 2013-08-04, 01:00   Link #282
Coldlight
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Today is the day. Finally, my turn to vote has come (if I can get a code, that is ). The one preliminary group I truly care about, Group 11.

Spoiler for My Picks for Prelims 1 Group 11:
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Old 2013-08-04, 01:42   Link #283
timbits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamadooddood View Post
^Seems like we have another ABS right here.

Can't seem to find the page containing the current standing though. :/
I just said I like Saki. You'll see me put lots of Saki characters in my picks, but I'll sometimes root against them. I don't fit into either of your categories.
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Old 2013-08-04, 02:14   Link #284
iamadooddood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timbits View Post
I just said I like Saki. You'll see me put lots of Saki characters in my picks, but I'll sometimes root against them. I don't fit into either of your categories.
But then since even you, a Saki fan, were disgusted by their utter domination last year, you wouldn't want them to continue like this right? Hence I classified you as ABS.

Even if you really are not ABS (yet), if Saki continues to dominate for the next couple of years you'll be ABS by then (as would some other non-ABSes).
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Old 2013-08-04, 03:49   Link #285
KanbeKotori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamadooddood View Post
Doesn't stop people from hating on it though. Sure they won with their own effort, but people can't help but have thoughts like "it's boring if only one person is winning", "I've lost motivation for my favourites to win", etc. And a dominating faction (Saki) is what's killing Saimoe after all.

Having watched the (association football) English Premier League I can understand this feeling very well. If there's a team that's dominating and you're supporting another team which isn't, then you will have this feeling. If you're supporting the dominating team however, you won't get this feeling, or understand it.
Correct me if I'm wrong since I just started participating in AST.

Saki have only won ONCE. What's with the hate? It's not like they have been winning a zillion years straight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by exec View Post
Exactly!
However, SakiMoe - is SaiMoe which has a lot of voters that vote for Saki no matter what. If chara is from Saki - insta-vote. No thinking, no love, no moe, no nothing, just Saki. Their motto is - "We'll destroy this world and replace it with our own."
Not really. I for one like Saki but you don't see me giving ALL my votes to Saki girls. There's lots of love in my votes(though I had to cry so much cos so many of my favorite are stuck in Group 16 and I can only pick 10 T.T).

Quote:
Originally Posted by timbits View Post
Yes but no individual voter that supports Saki puts in any more effort than the average voter, they win because there's so many supporters. I mean I like Saki and would've voted for several Saki girls if I'd been able to but even I was disgusted at the utter domination last year. I mean that's not fun, I would've stopped voting for Saki and voted for someone else unless it's a character I REALLY liked.
Well as I was saying, they only won ONCE. Why the hate then?

If people can't even allow a girl to win once, they might as well quit AST since they are so weak-willed and think that "Oh God, XX won! I don't care if it's once or many times a in row but if my girl don't win, I'll quit." We have no need for people with little determination.

If they won many times in a row then you're kinda right in saying that but winning just once and everybody start raging? Come on, show your maturity. If you wanna participate in this, be prepared that your favorite girl might not win. It doesn't mean that if I participate, my girl MUST win and if anyone else wins, I'mma riot. If that's the case, I pity you for I wonder is your love for your favorite girl strong enough or not.

Oh and I think they did put in more effort. It takes effort to convince people to like your favorite girl and vote for her you know?
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Old 2013-08-04, 05:00   Link #286
iamadooddood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KanbeKotori View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong since I just started participating in AST.

Saki have only won ONCE. What's with the hate? It's not like they have been winning a zillion years straight.



Not really. I for one like Saki but you don't see me giving ALL my votes to Saki girls. There's lots of love in my votes(though I had to cry so much cos so many of my favorite are stuck in Group 16 and I can only pick 10 T.T).



Well as I was saying, they only won ONCE. Why the hate then?

If people can't even allow a girl to win once, they might as well quit AST since they are so weak-willed and think that "Oh God, XX won! I don't care if it's once or many times a in row but if my girl don't win, I'll quit." We have no need for people with little determination.

If they won many times in a row then you're kinda right in saying that but winning just once and everybody start raging? Come on, show your maturity. If you wanna participate in this, be prepared that your favorite girl might not win. It doesn't mean that if I participate, my girl MUST win and if anyone else wins, I'mma riot. If that's the case, I pity you for I wonder is your love for your favorite girl strong enough or not.

Oh and I think they did put in more effort. It takes effort to convince people to like your favorite girl and vote for her you know?
Because apparently they've come the closest to winning multiple times, if my memory serves me right. And in the eyes of some fans that's more than enough. :/

Whether you're ABS or NBS or neither will only really show itself when you can choose only one girl, unlike now where you can choose 10+ girls.
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Old 2013-08-04, 05:23   Link #287
KanbeKotori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamadooddood View Post
Because apparently they've come the closest to winning multiple times, if my memory serves me right. And in the eyes of some fans that's more than enough. :/

Whether you're ABS or NBS or neither will only really show itself when you can choose only one girl, unlike now where you can choose 10+ girls.
They aren't untouchables still. Look how close Ruri came close in taking first place from Toki.
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Old 2013-08-04, 06:25   Link #288
exec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KanbeKotori View Post
They aren't untouchables still. Look how close Ruri came close in taking first place from Toki.
check this out and you might learn why Saki is hated so much.
>>Click Me<<
It's not about how many times they have come to winning the tournament.
It's about how they win it... semi-finals - no non-Saki girls in game... Quarter-finals - only two... imagine you have a Top 8 and first 6 places are Saki...
I don't dislike Kanade for being a formidable foe in ISML, it only makes the tournament more interesting. However Saki is a different case. You don't see Kanade, Yurippe, Yui-nyan etc. dominating the ISML... like imagine, single elimination where in quarter-finals there are only AB charas...
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Old 2013-08-04, 07:12   Link #289
Wanderer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KanbeKotori View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong since I just started participating in AST.

Saki have only won ONCE. What's with the hate? It's not like they have been winning a zillion years straight.
It's natural you wouldn't understand. I don't think anyone is especially upset at Saki just for winning. The hate comes from how the series utterly dominated the latter half of the 2012 tournament. Characters from other series were essentially nothing more than place-holders.

Let me put it this way: Of the last 27 regular matches that involved a Saki character, Saki won every single one of them. It was just all Saki all the time, and a lot of people got sick of it.
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Old 2013-08-04, 08:19   Link #290
ion475
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Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong since I just started participating in AST.

Saki have only won ONCE. What's with the hate? It's not like they have been winning a zillion years straight.
To be fair...

2009 = 4 out of 8 QF-ist are Saki girls, 2 more lose in Group Final, although turns out final is between K-On and Toradora.
2010 = Not so dominanting even though 2 (Nodoka and Koromo) still make it to QF. Also has to consider that Group C is a Group of Death from Saki standpoint.
2012 = Yes, 6 out of 8 QF-ist are Saki. But who can you call out as "BS" victory anyway? Group A with Saki = Total BS, but it's 3x Saki girls + Kobato by 3rd round. Group C with Buchou = BS, but her group is weak plus Shizu got knocked off early. Unless you want to argue with me that Yuu, Kuro, Nodoka, and Toki (Which are among the top to start with anyway) doesn't "deserve" the victory. Those 4 are Achiga-hen's top guns and they show that.

At the end, I guess I'm somewhat tired of people getting all pissed off at last year's QF. Who do you think should have been there instead? Kobato instead of Saki? (Not even a guarantee since Koromo could have knocked Kobato off), or someone other than Buchou (But then, if not for Kuuko to knocked Shizu out, Shizu would challenged Buchou and probably won). When Saki has THIS many strong girls, and if the strong girls are spread out (Instead of something like Group C in 2010), they're guarantee to win quite a few groups anyway.
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Old 2013-08-04, 08:20   Link #291
Triple_R
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I remember how Madoka Magica domination in 2011 caused quite a bit of backlash. And that was just 5 girls, all being main cast characters in what was probably the most popular anime show of the year. And even then, 1 of those 5 was literally cheated out of victory early on, leaving only 4. 2011 had an all-Madoka final, but until the final, other shows were represented.

This level of faction domination is no big deal in my view because it still leaves plenty of room for competitors from other shows.

But Saki's domination in 2012 was simply insane, and it really did serve to narrow the field substantially due to sheer numbers.

Now, I like Saki, so I personally was content with what happened last year, but I wouldn't want that level/extent of domination to happen again this year. Having the same show/characters dominate year after year after year would indeed be boring, imo. Incidentally, this is why I disagree with exec on Kanade/Angel Beats! domination in ISML - That became very old to me, and it's one of the main reasons why I don't participate in, or even follow, ISML anymore.

What I like about J-SaiMoe 2013 is how it pits old dominators (Saki and Madoka) against each other, and against (hopefully) strong newcomers (perhaps the Chuunibyou girls are the best hope here). If the strength level between these different girls and factions remains close to even, then we could be in for a very interesting Final 8. My ideal Final 8 would probably be two Saki girls, two Madoka girls, and four other girls from various shows. If this year's Final 8 is like last year's Final 8 I will consider that disappointing. Thankfully, I don't think that Saki will be that strong again.
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Old 2013-08-04, 08:40   Link #292
KanbeKotori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
It's natural you wouldn't understand. I don't think anyone is especially upset at Saki just for winning. The hate comes from how the series utterly dominated the latter half of the 2012 tournament. Characters from other series were essentially nothing more than place-holders.

Let me put it this way: Of the last 27 regular matches that involved a Saki character, Saki won every single one of them. It was just all Saki all the time, and a lot of people got sick of it.
How about Madoka? Why isn't Madoka hated? It makes no sense still. I mean Madoka did dominate ONCE, same as Saki yet they receive so much less hatred.

Quote:
Originally Posted by exec View Post
check this out and you might learn why Saki is hated so much.
>>Click Me<<
It's not about how many times they have come to winning the tournament.
It's about how they win it... semi-finals - no non-Saki girls in game... Quarter-finals - only two... imagine you have a Top 8 and first 6 places are Saki...
I don't dislike Kanade for being a formidable foe in ISML, it only makes the tournament more interesting. However Saki is a different case. You don't see Kanade, Yurippe, Yui-nyan etc. dominating the ISML... like imagine, single elimination where in quarter-finals there are only AB charas...
That only shows how much others have given up. Unlike in ISML where we have people anti-voting them, AST doesn't seem to have this practice so you can't blame the Saki girls cos it's the others who have given up early.

Besides Saki girls isn't untouchables as I've said. Take a look at the preliminary results so far. We have girls like Azuki Azusa, Takanashi Rikka, Toshino Kyouko and Mikazuki Yozora just to name a few winning their groups. If they aren't untouchables, then people can't complain cos it just shows that people can fight back if they want to. It just depends if they WANT to or not, or how much determination they have in overcoming their opponents. Saki did that to Madoka so it's a lame excuse to say others can't do so when the results clearly shows they aren't untouchables.

People just need the determination to do what Saki did to Madoka.
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Old 2013-08-04, 08:48   Link #293
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KanbeKotori View Post
How about Madoka? Why isn't Madoka hated? It makes no sense still. I mean Madoka did dominate ONCE, same as Saki yet they receive so much less hatred.
Madoka was hated a lot on the J-SaiMoe thread for 2011. There was lots and lots of complaining over Madoka domination on that thread.

They're not hated much now because...

1) That was 2 years ago. Saki was just last year.

2) Madoka domination was, as I pointed out in my previous post, mild compared to Saki domination.


By the way, this is the first year that Saki is going head-to-head with Madoka. Madoka wasn't in J-SaiMoe 2012.

Still, you're right that some people are perhaps getting overly worried about Saki's performance to date. It's not like Saki girls are winning every group they're in right now.
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Old 2013-08-04, 09:05   Link #294
iamadooddood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KanbeKotori View Post
That only shows how much others have given up. Unlike in ISML where we have people anti-voting them, AST doesn't seem to have this practice so you can't blame the Saki girls cos it's the others who have given up early.
I did say that people gave up in the face of extremely strong competition. Which further kills the Saimoe and proves my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Madoka was hated a lot on the J-SaiMoe thread for 2011. There was lots and lots of complaining over Madoka domination on that thread.

They're not hated much now because...

1) That was 2 years ago. Saki was just last year.

2) Madoka domination was, as I pointed out in my previous post, mild compared to Saki domination.


By the way, this is the first year that Saki is going head-to-head with Madoka. Madoka wasn't in J-SaiMoe 2012.

Still, you're right that some people are perhaps getting overly worried about Saki's performance to date. It's not like Saki girls are winning every group they're in right now.
Yeah, Madoka dominated '11 but weren't eligible for '12 but Saki's eligible for '12 (which they dominated) and '13 (which they look like they're going to dominate again; how would you feel if the first ever repeat winners of AST won it twice in a row?).

The initial stages don't really matter IMO. What really matters is the proportion of the final 16 or final 8 members. That's the most memorable lineup to most people.

Even worse are if the Saki girls didn't dominate the group stages (because all that matters is they make it through) and yet still dominate the latter stages of the tournament. Again, I've experienced this kind of feeling before.
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Old 2013-08-04, 09:12   Link #295
chaosprophet
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Results for Prelims 1 - Group 11
Spoiler for P1G11 Results:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
What I like about J-SaiMoe 2013 is how it pits old dominators (Saki and Madoka) against each other, and against (hopefully) strong newcomers (perhaps the Chuunibyou girls are the best hope here). If the strength level between these different girls and factions remains close to even, then we could be in for a very interesting Final 8. My ideal Final 8 would probably be two Saki girls, two Madoka girls, and four other girls from various shows. If this year's Final 8 is like last year's Final 8 I will consider that disappointing. Thankfully, I don't think that Saki will be that strong again.
One thing to note, this year because of repechage it will be a Final 16 instead of 8.
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Old 2013-08-04, 09:45   Link #296
Coldlight
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7 out of the 10 girls I would have voted for made it through today. Especially my favorite girl who has done well for her earliest appearance for this year.

Unfortunately, I couldn't get a code today because after the captcha (which was easy enough with Japanese IME) I got the usual "code limit, please wait" message from last year... and every time I tried to refresh the page returned to the captcha part.

I'll keep trying, though. It seems more people here are able to vote this year compared to last year's almost total shutout which is quite encouraging.
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Old 2013-08-04, 09:46   Link #297
Wanderer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ion475 View Post
or someone other than Buchou (But then, if not for Kuuko to knocked Shizu out, Shizu would challenged Buchou and probably won).
Actually, that group should have belonged to TOSHINO KYOUKO. She's top tier moe, in my opinion, and I thought it was BS that Shizu made a really strong showing to win against her in round 1, only to crap out in round 3 against Kuuko. And as much as I like Buchou, her winning in the end really felt artificial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KanbeKotori View Post
How about Madoka? Why isn't Madoka hated? It makes no sense still. I mean Madoka did dominate ONCE, same as Saki yet they receive so much less hatred.
Madoka's domination in 2011 was unpopular among many people. Saki in 2012 just completely eclipsed Madoka 2011 in terms of the level of domination, and, by extension, amount of dislike achieved.

And time is an even more important factor. If Saki doesn't take over this year, I'm sure that by 2014 there won't be much left of the Saki hate for 2012...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KanbeKotori View Post
Take a look at the preliminary results so far.
They don't mean a thing when it comes to the real tournament.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KanbeKotori View Post
People just need the determination to do what Saki did to Madoka.
Saki never did anything to Madoka. The two series have yet to ever even face each other. Madoka characters weren't eligible in 2012, and Saki characters weren't eligible in 2011.

That being said, I'm a bit interested to see how they fare against each other. Here's some interesting statistics:

Current number of consecutive wins in matches in general:
Saki- 27
Madoka- 22

Current number of consecutive wins in matches against a different series:
Saki- 18
Madoka- 19

All these streaks are still live, but we can expect them all to break early in the tournament.
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Old 2013-08-04, 10:07   Link #298
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosprophet View Post
Results for Prelims 1 - Group 11
Spoiler for P1G11 Results:

Aaahhh... Teru Miyanaga. The fearsome and admirable main antagonist of the Saki-verse, noted for her magnificent mahjong mastery and ability to read any foe. But even she is overcome by the swift shimmering swords of justice wielded by Sayaka Miki. I join Coldlight in celebrating this excellent victory!

Along with these top two finishers, I'm also glad to see Kud, Kurisu, Rin, VRO's Akane, and IdolMaster's Makoto advance to the main round.
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Old 2013-08-04, 10:23   Link #299
Subayai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Actually, that group should have belonged to TOSHINO KYOUKO. She's top tier moe, in my opinion, and I thought it was BS that Shizu made a really strong showing to win against her in round 1, only to crap out in round 3 against Kuuko. And as much as I like Buchou, her winning in the end really felt artificial.
Hisa is one of the most popular characters in the Saki franchise so her winning Group C (a weak group) was really deserved. Toshinou Kyouko also deserved to win but unfortunately she was sniped by Shizu in round 1. That's something that happens in Saimoe. A match Hisa vs Kyouko would have been really interesting but from the remaining girls, there was none who could challenge Hisa. Shizu is quite disliked even among Saki fans so I think even if Shizu had won against Kuuko she would have lost against Hisa.

Then if you look at last year's groups is easy to understand why Saki had 6 characters in QF: basically, there was almost no competition. The only other strong series Yuru Yuri had its main character defeated fair and square by the strongest Saki, Toki. That should have been the Grand Final but the luck of the draw made it only a Group Final. This coupled with Kyouko being sniped, opened the way to Saki dominating the tournament.

I understand that this outcome can be boring for anyone who doesn't like or know Saki but it happened one year only. It's not like Saki have been dominating for years on end. And I don't think Saki will be as dominating this year. They will classify a lot of characters because they have a very large cast but at the same time it's very likely that most of them will be defeated in the early rounds.

The difference between this year and the last is there are many strong series this year. So, independently of Saki's strength, there will be other series to challenge them. This should make the tournament interesting for everyone.
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Old 2013-08-04, 10:37   Link #300
KanbeKotori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldlight View Post
7 out of the 10 girls I would have voted for made it through today. Especially my favorite girl who has done well for her earliest appearance for this year.

Unfortunately, I couldn't get a code today because after the captcha (which was easy enough with Japanese IME) I got the usual "code limit, please wait" message from last year... and every time I tried to refresh the page returned to the captcha part.

I'll keep trying, though. It seems more people here are able to vote this year compared to last year's almost total shutout which is quite encouraging.
I can vote for all the groups so far. I only received the code limit when I did the captcha wrongly lol. Other than that I'm clear. I don't see what's so hard. ._.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Madoka's domination in 2011 was unpopular among many people. Saki in 2012 just completely eclipsed Madoka 2011 in terms of the level of domination, and, by extension, amount of dislike achieved.

And time is an even more important factor. If Saki doesn't take over this year, I'm sure that by 2014 there won't be much left of the Saki hate for 2012...
Right.....I see people are just shallow(no offense), I find that if you wanna complain, wait till at least they won twice in a row. A single year win doesn't mean much even if they dominated cos it just shows how weak others were ._.

If other series weren't weak, they would have performed decently and not get thrashed. Take an example of this year. We have the promising GuP, Madoka comes back again, and Saki to try and retain the crown. You can't expect a weak series to mount a challenge now do you? o.O

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
They don't mean a thing when it comes to the real tournament.
If it doesn't mean a thing, why vote for your girls to qualify the next round? >.>
You might as well ignore this round cos it means nothing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Saki never did anything to Madoka. The two series have yet to ever even face each other. Madoka characters weren't eligible in 2012, and Saki characters weren't eligible in 2011.

That being said, I'm a bit interested to see how they fare against each other. Here's some interesting statistics:

Current number of consecutive wins in matches in general:
Saki- 27
Madoka- 22

Current number of consecutive wins in matches against a different series:
Saki- 18
Madoka- 19

All these streaks are still live, but we can expect them all to break early in the tournament.
Okay fine, pardon my newbie error. In that case, people shouldn't bring on the hate until we see how this year's tourney ends. For all you know, GuP might win/Saki might beat Madoka vice versa/A totally new series might win.

All the hate is just senseless at this point of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosprophet View Post
Results for Prelims 1 - Group 11
Spoiler for P1G11 Results:
Damn! I thought Teru would beat Sayaka D:

Anyway good job to Kud, Rin, Yoshino and Akane for making it to the next round.

Sad to see Kanon, Chisato and Tamaki not doing too well :/ I wish them luck in Preliminary Round 2.

Anyway votes for today:
Spoiler for Preliminary Round 1 Group 12 votes:


I pray again that at least 4 qualify to the main round :/
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