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View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Episode 06 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 96 | 56.47% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 58 | 34.12% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 10 | 5.88% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 6 | 3.53% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 170. You may not vote on this poll |
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2011-02-12, 10:46 | Link #401 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I think ANY girls have potential to be MG. It is the matter of talent/not talent. Sayaka has a good heart but WEAK. She has no talent (at least not much) thus isn't QB target at first. It is not QB's interest to recuit a naive MG who will die pretty soon. He better off recuit a selffish MG who is capable of SURVIVING.
So is QB trying to kill a girl ? or the one who said we should mass recuit good heart girls despite her talent. Also, I saw ppl compare MG bussiness to joining the army. That is not even close, not even at joining a gang level. Being MG is more akin to become a mercenary, a bounty hunter. When you go hunting bounty, you go solo. Other bounty hunter isn't your comrade but your rival. I don't think it's bounty hunting office recuiter's responsibility to tell you that you may be stabbed by your fellow bounty hunter. The caring officer may tell you that but if uncaring one doesn't, is it his fault ? nah. Why can't bounty hunter in Madoka's world working together ? because the pay is pity. Many(if not all) MGs have trouble cleaning their soulgem. MGs are fighting for pray/territory. Some even resort farming the seed. That indicate there isn not enough seed around for everyone. You get HUGE benefit upfront for becoming bounty hunter but the job itself isn't well-paid job. What can be found guilty from recuiter's side is he didn't tell us that "he will turn us into a cyborg" and that "we need special fuel to keep our body going". The latter one the recuiter kinda tell us before we sign the contract "you need to hunt down your target". He didn't tell us what happen when we run out of fuel though. The former one, the recuiter see notthing wrong with it. "You want to go out there fighting with normal human body ?". That is different value of morality. Yes, the whole story we witness so far is about QB's grand scheme to recuit Madoka which can paint him as evil. He try to involve an innocent girl into this dangerous bussiness. That is because Madoka is both PURE and TALENT. Not someone he will see everyday. An indispensable personal for his HR career. He will use whatever mean possible to get her. The only thing I think QB is going too far (or rather the uncunning one) is to called Madoka out when Sayaka about to fight Kyouko this ep. What did he expect Madoka to do ? It is too obvious.
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2011-02-12, 13:08 | Link #402 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I have mentioned the possibility that there are enough MG around. It equates to having a lot of MGs, which is not something that we see, considering that Mami was protecting a city by herself. The whole saving the rest of us was info from QB. I already pointed out from what has been shown, the end does not really justify the means by how much has been sacrificed to save how many. Adding that to the whole thing coming out of a deceptive and manipulative creature, that possibility is simply unlikely. Quote:
It's not what I think he should have done. It's about what he actually did. He withheld so much information from the girls and sit aside silently letting Sayaka and Madoka go on hunts with Mami, knowing fully well any given fight Mami can bite it and he will be in a situation where he can force he girls to contract with him, which is exactly what he has done. He clear did't care about the fate of a MG as he has absolutely no reaction what so ever to Mami's death. Then he gave the the empty words to both girls afterwards that he will leave them alone and shows up right when Sayaka despairs and temp her into contracting with him. During Sayaka's first appearance, despite Sayaka being there to fight the witch for her first time, QB's concern wasn't about fighting witches or saving the victims but contracting Madoka. After that, once again, he sit back and let Madoka go on hunts with Sayaka and waiting for his opportunity to coerce Madoka into contracting with him.
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2011-02-12, 13:19 | Link #403 | |||||||
Banned
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And to be fair, he is trying to recruit an idealistic Madoka(which people constantly bitch at Kyube for, ironically), got an idealistic Sayaka, and had an idealistic Mami. Three girls out of the 5 MG's we know of, that would focus solely on witches AND familiars and not fight other MG's if they didn't have to. Only Kyoko has been downright selfish enough to interfere with other MG's, and Homura is still a wild card. There is an old military saying: "You go to war with the army you have, not the army you would like to have." Still, if the 5 we have are representative, that's a 60% rate of MG's who would focus on familiars/witches and prefer not to fight other MG's if they didn't have to. That's not a bad rate, considering the system. Quote:
However, I do agree on questioning Kyube more, at least trying to get some answers. I primarily think the girls are stupid for not having done so. When I get into something, I like to have as much information as possible first. The girls are acting with emotion, and not logic, though. Quote:
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So, I ask again: What should he have done? |
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2011-02-12, 20:07 | Link #404 |
Stupidity is Bliss.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In Hancock's Heart
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what if homura is actually evil and kyubey is the good one? it can be otherwise or they're both on the good side but there's just a misunderstanding?
ah, i dunno, but it's likely that gen is playing with our minds. and i am bothered that he is actually pulling a homura-is-evil route here. DX |
2011-02-12, 20:08 | Link #405 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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2011-02-12, 21:00 | Link #407 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
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just watched it...wow...so the jewel is actually the spirit of the MG...so MG needs grief seed to be alive then??
How about if MG decides not to fight the witches, so they will never need the grief seeds to clean their spirit?? will that work??
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2011-02-12, 21:00 | Link #408 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Even someone who doesn't understand humans can see when certain actions negatively impact the ability of said humans to perform their duties. So he just avoids doing those actions in the future. After enough MGs, he should have enough examples of what not to devulge that would drive MGs catatonic with insanity.
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2011-02-12, 21:12 | Link #409 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Kyubey did say (Or at least imply) that using Magic is what dirties the Soul Gem, And also when you find out the Soul Gems really are the souls and the bodies are just a shell, wouldn't that mean just living after making a contract would be using Magic? Sounds like a logical guess to me... And also we don't know 100% why they have to keep purifying the gems.. Considering what Kyubey said about "Without having to worry about using too much Magic" it makes me suspect if it completely dirties it would stop use of Magic.. Also considering my last speculation there wouldn't that likely kill them? Or going another way with speculation.. Ever notice how similar Grief Seeds look to Soul Gems?.. Maybe if a Soul Gem completely dirties it becomes a Grief Seed and in turn the Mahou Shoujo becomes a Witch.. So yeah.. Don't think it's that easy and I didn't expect to make a post this long
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2011-02-12, 21:21 | Link #410 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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While this is understandable viewpoint, for example take psychopaths in real life. They may lack empathy but many of them are very good at manipulating others. Their lack of ability to understand the feelings involved does not prevent them from recognizing behavioral patterns and which buttons to push.
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2011-02-12, 21:25 | Link #411 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Folsom, CA, USA
Age: 37
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This can be done with logic, he has probably been around a long time and he can see how humans react to certain things or topics, what they like or don't like etc. He doesn't have to understand their emotions to manipulate them he has both logic and past experience with humans to go off of. That doesn't mean it will always work, but he knows what buttons to go for or things to say to raise his chances.
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2011-02-12, 21:27 | Link #412 |
Banned
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Eating off a plate dirties it. Using a shovel dirties it. Putting almost anything to use causes wear and tear and some degree of dirt accumulates. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that using magic causes some wear and tear on the soul.
Or perhaps pulling in magic to use also pulls in some "gunk" and since witches attract negative stuff (they are representative of the seven deadly sins so far), the grief seed works like a magnet to pull that stuff out. If the grief seed absorbs too much negativity, then the witch gets reborn. And Kyube doesn't want them to be reborn. So, given that the nature of witches is essentially darkness and negativity given form, they are the one true evil in all of this. Oh, let's not spread the lie of manipulation anymore, okay? Manipulation means someone actively takes control of events to push someone in a direction. Kyube may take advantage of situations to repeat the same spiel he's already honestly told us, but he hasn't been shown to manipulate anything. Maybe he is, but it hasn't been shown. At least you'd have some foothold to say "he takes advantage of situations!" |
2011-02-12, 21:39 | Link #413 | |
*(RAWR*)&rawr
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2011-02-12, 21:42 | Link #414 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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(Unless you mean he's directly manipulating everything behind the scenes, which of course there is very little evidence. That is not the definition anyone is referring to here.) |
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2011-02-12, 21:57 | Link #415 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
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Simply put, spirit needs energy to survive, just like how we human need food...since now the body means basically nothing to the MG, now the MG needs something else to survive, and that's grief seed...in summary, MG not only needs grief seeds to replenish the magic, but they would also need grief seed to live just my 2 cents on this issue XD and I am really enjoying this series
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2011-02-12, 22:11 | Link #416 | ||
Banned
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So, by you responding, you are manipulating me. And I manipulated you into responding. Madoka is trying to manipulate Sayaka, and Homura is manipulating Madoka, while also manipulating Kyoko. Or we can agree it refers to a specific thing, that is the control of events and situations to force a specific end result. Quote:
Look, you have a perfectly good beef with Kyube attempting to use situations that were happening already. Don't ruin it by trying to grab more, otherwise your position begins to look silly. Your friend is going to do something stupid. Me: "Your friend is going to do something stupid, and could possibly kill himself!" You: "Oh no, I have to go stop him before it's too late!" Hey, I just manipulated you! |
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2011-02-12, 22:33 | Link #417 | |
Me at work
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Situation he seems to like to create himself in ways that are becoming less and less subtle.
In this episode,why go get Madoka when Sayaka goes to fight Kyoko?First it's none of her business (even Sayaka says so in the episode),and second she can't do anything about it......unless she becomes a magical girl,which is what he wants. (Or throw her soulgem away,but it seems he never expected her to do that) Quote:
edit:and I'll add,yes it happens everyday.Commercials are a prime exemple,some would say politicians make a career out of this (though that's a whole other debate)
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2011-02-12, 22:47 | Link #418 | ||
Banned
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Someone telling me something I want to know, is hardly manipulating me. And yes, we know Kyube wants Madoka as an MG. Everyone knows it. "Manipulations" don't work as well if you're being bluntly honest about it. But I suppose by these definitions we can conclude Homura is manipulating Madoka as well, since she clearly stated her goal and then withheld information, while also showing up at convenient times. Quote:
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2011-02-12, 22:58 | Link #419 | |||
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Here are some common definitions of manipulation. The relevant one is in bold.
manipulate (məˈnɪpjʊˌleɪt) — vb 1. ( tr ) to handle or use, esp with some skill, in a process or action: to manipulate a pair of scissors 2. to negotiate, control, or influence (something or someone) cleverly, skilfully, or deviously 3. to falsify (a bill, accounts, etc) for one's own advantage 4. (in physiotherapy) to examine or treat manually, as in loosening a joint Quote:
I never said that every little suggestion is a manipulation. I said that the use of suggestions are enough, that is a sufficient condition, to be considered manipulation. This does not imply that every suggestion is an act of manipulation. The fact that Kyube only uses words does not make it not manipulation. He deliberately misleads the girls to convince them to become magical girls. Furthermore, he pushes and prods at every opportunity selectively attacking their weaknesses and desires. He also suggestively pushes them when they're under extreme emotional duress. Effective manipulation is all about taking advantage of situations and controlling the emotions of the person in question. To a certain extent some of those interaction you mentioned, Homura/Kyoko in particular, could be considered manipulation. But most of those aren't attempts at controlling but convincing. Note Homura trying to keep Kyoko in check by giving her satisfactory reason to obey her is a positive use of manipulation. Manipulation itself is merely a method of controlling people it is neither good nor evil. Quote:
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(Do you have to be so goddamn defensive when someone doesn't agree with your opinion to the point where you're willing to misinterpret everything they write? Stop putting words in other people's mouths and setting up straw men that you so willfully tear apart.) |
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2011-02-12, 23:13 | Link #420 | ||||||||
Banned
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And yes, you'll respond with the whole "lie by omission" thing, but that's not relevant. We're talking about what Kyube wants, not the minor details of something. Quote:
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I'm just applying your standard equally. It's not a standard I would use, because despite definitions, words have very clear meanings. I could pull definitions from other sources that are worded differently. But we all know how loaded certain words can be. As a logical person myself, I know that words are simply words. But certain words are used to interject specific emotions, especially in places where other descriptors are more accurate. Thus, "taking advantage of a situation" is more apt to say than "manipulation." The latter implies some degree of control over bringing the situation to pass, when we've seen nothing of the sort. |
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madness, madoka magica |
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