The Character Discussion Thread of SOS団 Member: Itsuki Koizumi

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Originally Posted by wingman32x

Itsuki is probably my favorite Haruhi character. I loved is dry humor. So, Itsuki's organization views Haruhi as a god that can make the supernatural into reality just by wishing for it, right? I'm sorry for the noobish question, but I marathoned through the first and second season, so I kind of have a hard time telling Mikuru's, Yuki's, and Itsuki's explanation of Haruhi apart...

Some members of the Organization supposedly believe that. Koizumi doesn't seem to, however.

[Heatth]

All of then still belive she can make wish come true, tough, and is why she is so important. IT is just that some don't believe she is really 'God', just that she has god-like powers (in the end, it is the same thing for them). Also, keep in mind it is 'God' as in 'Creator', not as 'omnipotent/scient being'.

[darksassin]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

He had three years of experience at the time he made that statement, so I'm sure he'd know if there were more than ten.

He says that there were about ten espers, and they are all belong to the organisation, but...

Spoiler for later novel:

Later novel introduce kyouko, a self proclaimed esper on anti-sos dan and she doesnt seems to belong to the "Organisation", IIRC

So, there should be more espers than Koizumi knows or he deliberately didnt tell Kyon about that

[edkedkedk]

I've got a burning question in my mind about Koizumi (oh yes he is mysterious). In the animation of Sigh IV,

Spoiler for Sigh IV Koizumi:

Kyon gets so mad at Haruhi that he raises his fist to hit her (righteousness 1, chivalry 0). Koizumi then rushes forward to grab his wrist, thus preventing him from punching Haruhi. My question is this; how on Earth can he move so darn fast? He was on the left of Kyon, tending to a drunk Mikuru, then in an instant was standing on the right of Kyon, and grabbing his wrist. Does he actually has more power than he lets on? Athleticism is one thing, but superhuman power is another. He's strong enough to hold back Kyon with one hand nonchalantly when Kyon's using his full force to try and sock Haruhi, and he's fast enough to see Kyon raising his fist, and subsequently determine to run to Kyon's side and grab his wrist while it's moving in the air.

This just seems to me that other than his Closed Space powers, he has enhanced intellect, speed, senses and strength. Then again, probably Kyon is just weak.

[darksassin]

Originally Posted by edkedkedk

I've got a burning question in my mind about Koizumi (oh yes he is mysterious). In the animation of Sigh IV,

Spoiler for Sigh IV Koizumi:

Kyon gets so mad at Haruhi that he raises his fist to hit her (righteousness 1, chivalry 0). Koizumi then rushes forward to grab his wrist, thus preventing him from punching Haruhi. My question is this; how on Earth can he move so darn fast? He was on the left of Kyon, tending to a drunk Mikuru, then in an instant was standing on the right of Kyon, and grabbing his wrist. Does he actually has more power than he lets on? Athleticism is one thing, but superhuman power is another. He's strong enough to hold back Kyon with one hand nonchalantly when Kyon's using his full force to try and sock Haruhi, and he's fast enough to see Kyon raising his fist, and subsequently determine to run to Kyon's side and grab his wrist while it's moving in the air.

This just seems to me that other than his Closed Space powers, he has enhanced intellect, senses and strength. Then again, probably Kyon is just weak.

You may forgot the speed though edkedkedk

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by darksassin

He says that there were about ten espers, and they are all belong to the organisation, but...

Spoiler for later novel:

Later novel introduce kyouko, a self proclaimed esper on anti-sos dan and she doesnt seems to belong to the "Organisation", IIRC

So, there should be more espers than Koizumi knows or he deliberately didnt tell Kyon about that

By 'espers' he was probably meaning people with the same powers (or very similar ones) as him.

Spoiler for Future Stuff:

Kyouko don't realy count. Her powers are far to different from him, and we don't even know if she was telling the truth, for all we know, it could be Kuyoh's trick. I also have seen people suggestion that what happened to Kyon in their conversation was far to similar to what happaned in the Snow Montain, which an argument in favor to that theory.

Also, there is is Nakazawa, who is also an 'esper' but don't enter in Koizumi's initial count.

Originally Posted by edkedkedk

I've got a burning question in my mind about Koizumi (oh yes he is mysterious). In the animation of Sigh IV,

Spoiler for Sigh IV Koizumi:

Kyon gets so mad at Haruhi that he raises his fist to hit her (righteousness 1, chivalry 0). Koizumi then rushes forward to grab his wrist, thus preventing him from punching Haruhi. My question is this; how on Earth can he move so darn fast? He was on the left of Kyon, tending to a drunk Mikuru, then in an instant was standing on the right of Kyon, and grabbing his wrist. Does he actually has more power than he lets on? Athleticism is one thing, but superhuman power is another. He's strong enough to hold back Kyon with one hand nonchalantly when Kyon's using his full force to try and sock Haruhi, and he's fast enough to see Kyon raising his fist, and subsequently determine to run to Kyon's side and grab his wrist while it's moving in the air.

This just seems to me that other than his Closed Space powers, he has enhanced intellect, senses and strength. Then again, probably Kyon is just weak.

Well, I would have to reread this scene no know for sure, but I always suspected Itsuki was deliberadly hidding some powers from Kyon. For one thing he seens to be able to 'sense' super natural stuff, but he never explicitly told Kyon about that.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Haruhi teleported him behind Kyon in self-defense. Only explanation I can think of.

[Heatth]

I believe Tsuruya would notice something like that. But, then again, it is Tsuruya, she could just not have cared.

[darksassin]

Originally Posted by Heatth

Well, I would have to reread this scene no know for sure, but I always suspected Itsuki was deliberadly hidding some powers from Kyon. For one thing he seens to be able to 'sense' super natural stuff, but he never explicitly told Kyon about that.

During the baseball game, after they almost lose, all three react weirdly, I know Nagato could sense dimensional change, maybe Itsuki can detect close space or other supernatural stuff, but what about Mikuru?

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by darksassin

During the baseball game, after they almost lose, all three react weirdly, I know Nagato could sense dimensional change, maybe Itsuki can detect close space or other supernatural stuff, but what about Mikuru?

Seh received a mensage from her bosses. We never knwe exactly how she comunicated (and it is a secret, since she have to hide to do it), but it seens to be a handy thing, as she seens to be always with it. Some suspect it is an implant of some kind.

[wingman32x]

Originally Posted by Heatth

Well, I would have to reread this scene no know for sure, but I always suspected Itsuki was deliberadly hidding some powers from Kyon. For one thing he seens to be able to 'sense' super natural stuff, but he never explicitly told Kyon about that.

I kind of had that feeling, too. Even though he was the most open with Kyon (out of himself, Yuki, and Mikuru) in terms of information about his organization and what he could do, I always felt he held back some information about his abilities. Idk about the Light Novel, but in the anime we see him use his powers once, and even then it was for a short period of time and was shown from a far away angle. So I too think he has some abilities hidden in the dark that nobody knows about.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by wingman32x

Even though he was the most open with Kyon (out of himself, Yuki, and Mikuru) in terms of information about his organization and what he could do, I always felt he held back some information about his abilities.

This is the main reason, for me. Since he is the only one telling things, he can choose how he is going to tell them. Not that I believe he is flat out lieing, but he certanly speak in th way more convenient to him. The best exemple of it is Sighs, as usual we just believe in what he says, but, this time, we have both Mikuru and Yuki explicitly telling they think what he says is bullshit.

Spoiler for Snow Mountain:

For that reason, I could never really believe when he says he would choose Kyon and the SOS Brigade over his organization.

Of course, I don't remember any actual exemple when he was proven to be lieing or holding things from Kyon (insted of ben, maybe, just mistaken).

In any case, I believe people should give Itsuki less credit them most give. Even if do not intent to lie, he might very well be completely wrong. Just because he is the one doing exposition don't mean that this exposition is correct, at it was pointed once in the novel/anime.

Spoiler for Book 9:

At last Tachibana cast a good doubt into his views.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

... Did you miss the fact that Nagato also said that neither her nor Mikuru should be completely trusted? The point of those scenes wasn't to say Koizumi's a liar, it was to point out the fact that the three groups completely disagree with one another.

[Heatth]

When I ever said the oposite? The point of this scene is mostly to tell us Itsuki is not that trustable... neither is Yuki or Mikuru. I never said you should trust one of then, just you shouldn't trust him.

Anyway, this scene mostly effect Itsuki, since, again, is pratically the only one who explain things (without too much technobable, at last). However, I still feel that most of the fans still takes what he says as gospel true.

[keri]

Originally Posted by Heatth

When I ever said the oposite? The point of this scene is mostly to tell us Itsuki is not that trustable... neither is Yuki or Mikuru. I never said you should trust one of then, just you shouldn't trust him.

Anyway, this scene mostly effect Itsuki, since, again, is pratically the only one who explain things (without too much technobable, at last). However, I still feel that most of the fans still takes what he says as gospel true.

Well, to be honest, when have we reason to doubt Koizumi? Often his explanations make as much sense as anything else, or are the only clues we have, so we may as well go with what he says until proven otherwise.

Frankly, I'm somewhat sceptical of his stories, but willing to accept them as plausible and most likely to be true, because usually there isn't much reason to disbelieve him. And when there is, I am ready to reevaluate what I think.

[AmyElizzabeth]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

The point of those scenes wasn't to say Koizumi's a liar, it was to point out the fact that the three groups completely disagree with one another.

But they do have at least similar conclusions?
Yeah, I never trusted that Mikuru kid.
I believed Koizumi, because he's so convincing. But, he's also a good actor.
He could be bullshitting us

[ultimatemegax]

Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth

But they do have at least similar conclusions?
Yeah, I never trusted that Mikuru kid.
I believed Koizumi, because he's so convincing. But, he's also a good actor.
He could be bullshitting us

Now now, would the guy in my avatar do that?

Seriously, I agree with what Yuki said as the conclusion to that whole set of scenes: There's no way for Kyon to be able to tell what the truth is, so there's no real way to fully trust any of the ITDE, Future-people, or Agency.

Spoiler:

Really all three have lied to Kyon in some way, so none of them can be trusted. Koizumi has lied about his personal theories and about the lone island. Yuki lied about being able to protect him from herself (if she could prevent him from being affected at the point of change, she could have told him beforehand, so saying she couldn't is a lie). Mikuru lies about taking him out in Melancholy just to complete a mission. If we can't trust Koizumi, we can't trust any of them as far as I'm concerned.

Personally, I think Koizumi's just being used as a plot-detailer since Yuki's meant to not be talkative and part of Mikuru's charm is her inability to know things that are commonplace in the "past." That's the only reason I trust him as much as I do with certain things, but not wholeheartedly, since he's proven himself to lie about the plot.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by keri

Well, to be honest, when have we reason to doubt Koizumi? Often his explanations make as much sense as anything else, or are the only clues we have, so we may as well go with what he says until proven otherwise.

In Sighs we have a reason to doubt Koizumi. Not saying he is deliberating lieing, but that not mean he is 100% trustable. He can use his position to gave the most convenient explanation, even if he do not do that consiously (I believe it is thinking to hight of him, but that is just opinion).

Spoiler for The Surprise of:

Vol.9 also came to my mind. As far we know Tachibana can be telling the truth and ITsuki being wrond all along. Btw, fr Koizumi, having Sasaki as 'God' would be perfect, he just dn't believe it is possible.

Originally Posted by keri

Frankly, I'm somewhat sceptical of his stories, but willing to accept them as plausible and most likely to be true, because usually there isn't much reason to disbelieve him. And when there is, I am ready to reevaluate what I think.

We usually have to trust Koizumi because he gave the only explanation. We can't just ignore it, or we wouldn't have a clue of what is going on. Just pointing that we might want to see it for nwe angles

Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth

But they do have at least similar conclusions?

The don't have similar conclusions, they is pretty much the oposite (the World is isn danger(Koizumi) vs the World itself is never in danger (Nagato) vs The World
can't be in danger (Asahina)). At last one of then need to be wrong, that person can be Itsuki. Before this scene we never really have any reason to think the explanation Itsuki gave in Melancholy was wrong. Nowe we have.

Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth

Yeah, I never trusted that Mikuru kid.
I believed Koizumi, because he's so convincing. But, he's also a good actor.
He could be bullshitting us

Well, yeah. I believe it is how it went to most of us. It is also one of the main reasons I don't trust Koizumi.

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

Now now, would the guy in my avatar do that?

Wouldn't him?

Seriously, I agree with what Yuki said as the conclusion to that whole set of scenes: There's no way for Kyon to be able to tell what the truth is, so there's no real way to fully trust any of the ITDE, Future-people, or Agency.

Spoiler:

Really all three have lied to Kyon in some way, so none of them can be trusted. Koizumi has lied about his personal theories and about the lone island. Yuki lied about being able to protect him from herself (if she could prevent him from being affected at the point of change, she could have told him beforehand, so saying she couldn't is a lie). Mikuru lies about taking him out in Melancholy just to complete a mission. If we can't trust Koizumi, we can't trust any of them as far as I'm concerned.

[/quote]

You have a point he. However, I would say Itsuki's lie is pretty much inocent, and Yuki's may be more a mistake then a lie. Yeah, I don't trus Mikuru either.

In any case, the most trustable person in the Brigade is Haruhi.

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

Personally, I think Koizumi's just being used as a plot-detailer since Yuki's meant to not be talkative and part of Mikuru's charm is her inability to know things that are commonplace in the "past." That's the only reason I trust him as much as I do with certain things, but not wholeheartedly, since he's proven himself to lie about the plot.

I believe you are mostly correct.

Also, many Koizumi's explanation are, by his own adimission, just theories (many of then ecen sound it is being made on spot). Even for Itsuki, they are not meant to be taken as true ("Haruhi is God" is the prime exemple). However, Itsuki's theory is good for Kyon, and us, readers, because it provide some explanation.

I am not telling Itsuki has an evil plan or something (tough it is a possibility), just that he is not the guardian of truth.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Originally Posted by Heatth

In any case, the most trustable person in the Brigade is Haruhi.

She may be a criminal, but at least she's an honest one. Right?

[quigonkenny]

One thing to keep in mind is that the only thing Itsuki has really revealed about himself is that his entire personality is fabricated. How can you trust anything he says? You can't even trust that he's always lying. He's a walking, (close) talking, smiling "liar paradox".