[Manga] Naruto Chapter 609 Discussion Thread

[ntherblast]

Originally Posted by The Small One

I don't really understand, why Kakashi came back again. He should have stayed on the other side to continue hitting Obito.
And why was Obito surprised that he got hit, just after sending Kakashi there? Kakashi should have been out of Chakra, but hitting doesn't really need Chakra.

Cause he thought kakashi was out of chakra

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

Kurama is being awesome here....
that combined Bijuu's bomb is cool as well

Jyuubi is nasty... not cool looking at all...
ten tails... wood body (or geido mazo's body)... with one big Sharingan eye...

Ya it's called subjective and why doesn't it make sense for it to have the body of the vessel?

[C4B0S3]

I really really hope they won't shoot down the moon at the end or something like that...

[james0246]

Not much to say about this chapter. It's nice seeing some actual group work, and the Tobi fight is coming along nicely (though it's looking like any two jounin level opponents could have defeated Tobi at any time if they simply used damn good teamwork...which we kind of already knew from the brief skirmish before the Sasuke v. Danzou fight). Sadly, the Jyuubi has interrupted the fight. Here's hoping Sasuke comes along, becomes the Jyuubi Jinchuuriki, kills Madara and Tobi, and then fights Naruto. That way the series will end within the next 15-20 chapters .

[b1gdawg]

Originally Posted by EssTEss

Kakashi could have made things a lot easier by just pulling out a kunai and stabbing Obito instead of punching him while on the other side.

Ya but I think Kakashi not killing Obito when he had the chance is kind of foreshadowing Obito teaming up with the Alliance against Madara.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Obito's dimensional jutsu still doesn't make sense, and neither does how he uses it. At least he should teleport people to another place in his empty dimension, not where his body parts appear. Why didn't Danzou's two guys punch him when he teleported them away? If it was the small bugs guy he could have infested his teleported body parts by simply touching them.

my understanding was that they were under a genjutsu. that's why they seemed kind of out of it when obito teleported them back for the edo-tensei lesson with kabuto.

Also how can he teleport to other real world locations using his dimension if he can't even teleport to different places in his own dimension.

yea that doesn't quite add up. i think the reason is as ntherblast said, that obito thought kakashi was out of chakra and therefore didn't expect him to be able to do anything. still, he shouldn't have chanced it, but perhaps it just feeds into his character's hubris which will be part of his downfall

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

my understanding was that they were under a genjutsu. that's why they seemed kind of out of it when obito teleported them back for the edo-tensei lesson with kabuto.

yea obito says in chapter 520 that they were under a genjutsu...

i think since obito has to touch his target, and his kamui vertex is in his eye, it makes sense to me that his targets warp right in front of him. i would expect this to be different when kakashi uses kamui since he does so at a distance to begin with.

[Lunarskylar]

well they were in a genjutsu, but tobi had to cast it on them. however it's not like they understood how the jutsu worked while getting sucked in. so even if they saw a random body part floating for teh few minutes they were there (beofre tobi prob went in genjutsu'd them while sasuke was fighting danzou) there isn't much they could do.

hey sasuke was in that dimension too, he coulda genjutsu'd them when they came in
the bugs that got tobi's arm even coulda hit from inside that dimension too, instead of outside lik we thought

loved the chapter, but kakashi coming back was the stupidiest move ever. does he expect obito to just suck him in again? they're right back at step 1, with obito just a bit more bit up than he was before

[Luminion Lancer]

Hot damn that was good and about time Obito got the wind knocked out of him a bit. I was getting real tired of his presence. Also it seems like Guy's Morning Tiger really took the fight out of Madara for a while (he is seen recuperating). So, Guy's Tiger can punch through Madara's Susano-O? Color me impressed.

And now we get to deal with Jubi for the next little while. I predict Madara to act as his arrogant self, try to seal Jubi in himself only for it to backfire on him and eat him in retaliation.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

my understanding was that they were under a genjutsu. that's why they seemed kind of out of it when obito teleported them back for the edo-tensei lesson with kabuto.

Ok, that was a bad example. But there are other examples, like trying to teleport away Minato. Minato being in Obito's dimension would be smart enough to realize that he needs to destroy those body parts. Also he could have easily teleported back or let himself be reverse summoned by a frog. Maybe he has control over his own dimension similarily to Itachi having control over the tsukiyomi dimension, however you can't escape Itachi's genjutsu place but Kakashi could teleport back. Maybe other types of teleporting don't work from there, but that seems to be a stupid limitation.

But anyway this teleporting stuff is messed up I mean what if Kakashi could teleport away that part of Obito's body that was teleported there, then Obito would have lost part of his body and had to die in an ugly way Or why did part of Obito's body be without internal organs and blood, just some white mass, but when that white mass is hit Obito bleeds Some really funny pictures could be made of a Kakashi vs Obito teleport duel where in the end Obito's body parts are all in the wrong places, for example his head is on his arm and his butt is on the place of his head, etc.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

But anyway this teleporting stuff is messed up I mean what if Kakashi could teleport away that part of Obito's body that was teleported there, then Obito would have lost part of his body and had to die in an ugly way Or why did part of Obito's body be without internal organs and blood, just some white mass, but when that white mass is hit Obito bleeds Some really funny pictures could be made of a Kakashi vs Obito teleport duel where in the end Obito's body parts are all in the wrong places, for example his head is on his arm and his butt is on the place of his head, etc.

I think you need to file this under the whole 'fantasy' label of a story like naruto. hardly any of the techniques make logical sense. how is sasori just a cylinder of goo? how does itachi shoot black flames out of his eyes? how does danzo rewrite history? how is hidan immortal?, etc... i don't see the point of isolating one technique that makes no sense as if any of the other higher level techniques do. for instance, in one piece nobody complains about buggy or law separating body parts and reattaching them with no logical medical consequences. it's all fantasy

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Ok, that was a bad example. But there are other examples, like trying to teleport away Minato. Minato being in Obito's dimension would be smart enough to realize that he needs to destroy those body parts.

We've never really been given a firm idea of the size of Tobi's dimension. It is entirely possible that the entire dimension is only a dozen meters in every direction.

As for Minato attacking him from inside, that only works if there is someone outside fighting in equal conjunction with the person inside. If Minato was teleported by himself and no one was there to fight against Tobi, then besides potentially summoning himself out of the dimension, there is nothing Minato could have done [to Tobi].

As for the seemingly instantaneous travel from point to point...well there is no real explanation for that yet. Potentially Tobi doesn't have to actually travel within the other dimension, he just enters his personal dimension and exits wherever he pleases.

[mystogan]

that was some really great teamwork by Kurama,Naruto and Kakashi. very funny to see naruto's half-assed face at a time like this. loved kurama when he says "there now you can fight without hesitation", and kakashi is recharged.
now the ten-tails is revived, i remember obito saying that he will become the jinchuriki of the tentails, i wonder what madara is going to do now

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by james0246

As for Minato attacking him from inside, that only works if there is someone outside fighting in equal conjunction with the person inside. If Minato was teleported by himself and no one was there to fight against Tobi, then besides potentially summoning himself out of the dimension, there is nothing Minato could have done [to Tobi].

As for the seemingly instantaneous travel from point to point...well there is no real explanation for that yet. Potentially Tobi doesn't have to actually travel within the other dimension, he just enters his personal dimension and exits wherever he pleases.

I was assuming that his instantaneous traveling jutsu invlolves him entering his own dimension, but if there's Minato then he can't do that, and he often uses that to escape. That assumption is simply based on the fact that when he travels he uses the eye jutsu that visually seems to be the same. So if he puts someone like Minato inside that dimension that severely cripples his power and his chances of running away in case he faces a strong enemy. When he attacked Konoha he could at some point face the 3rd hokage or Jiraiya, or simply a large army of jounins, and in that case his teleportation jutsu could save his life. So in that context it doesn't make sense to teleport an enemy into his safe escape dimension. Of course there might be some features of his dimension that he can control in order to kill Minato as fast as possible, for example he could shrink the size of that dimension if he can control it's size. When he teleported Sasuke and Karin there it seemed like a large open space with some box-shaped large stones (or maybe it was not his dimension but a secret hideout?).

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

I think you need to file this under the whole 'fantasy' label of a story like naruto. hardly any of the techniques make logical sense. how is sasori just a cylinder of goo? how does itachi shoot black flames out of his eyes? how does danzo rewrite history? how is hidan immortal?, etc... i don't see the point of isolating one technique that makes no sense as if any of the other higher level techniques do. for instance, in one piece nobody complains about buggy or law separating body parts and reattaching them with no logical medical consequences. it's all fantasy

These all have different levels of oddness, in my opinion this body part thing stands out from the other things (along with your Hidan example, but that was less odd to me). In the Narutoverse when it comes to human body there's some level of realism, like people having DNA, people not being able to escape the aging process. Sure people like Sasori and Kakuzu could have a living heart inside their non-human bodies, but we don't see those directly inside the puppet or strings-body, so it's less odd when we don't see it. In other cases like amaterasu or changing history in your surroundings it has nothing to do with human body, it's chakra-based magic, which was introduced in the beginning of the manga (henge, bunshin,etc.). As opposed to Naruto in One Piece the author didn't make such efforts to have some scientific-sounding explanations about chakra and human bodies, etc., so there were no laws established by the author, and therefore anything can happen and i won't complain. One Piece starts with a guy having a rubber body, so it doesn't have any laws about human body from the beginning, there are no laws to break, so why would we complain

[drulo]

Originally Posted by azenable

Look at it this way, they can revive the Juu Bi without the 9-8 tails, but it would not be powerful enough for the eternal jutus, so they still need to capture the 8-9 tail still.

Make sense?

I never thought of it that way, it could actually go like that

[Dengar]

There has to be some flaw to reviving the incomplete 10-tails that the villains aren't telling us.

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by Dengar

There has to be some flaw to reviving the incomplete 10-tails that the villains aren't telling us.

The 10 tails has less tomoe in its eye then shown when Obito talked about it so a flaw could be how it has less power then before due to not having the full 8 and 9 tail chakra in it.

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by Lunarskylar

the bugs that got tobi's arm even coulda hit from inside that dimension too, instead of outside lik we thought

funny thing about those bugs and obitos arm that i noticed a long time ago...his sleeve was down when he was so called "infected" with those bugs. when i look at it again, i don't think the bugs made contact. obito just ripped his arm off and tossed to the sensory guy to force him to dodge so he could be captured...pretty slick...i could just be imagining the whole thing...

as far as consequences to the jyubi revival...no one on the battlefield is the 10 tails friend right? all the major players are part of the lineage that seal it away in the first place...it should just start wailing on everybody lol

[kk2extreme]

Originally Posted by C4B0S3

I really really hope they won't shoot down the moon at the end or something like that...

lol @ DBZ reference

[Alchemist007]

Lol'd at Kyuubi throwing Kakashi into Obito.

"I got this."

[Suika-Esper]

Originally Posted by Rickketik

On top of that, I can NOT follow the fights anymore.. It's so damn confusing! The "art" is just overly detailed (too bussy) And the lay-out design is getting more ridiculous by the week. I just can not tell who is hitting who and the sequence of things.. Especially the fights involving the tailed beasts is an absolute disaster! It's like the fight scenes in the Transformers movies, except this is in manga form.. That makes it even worse.

Am I the only one?

I know what you mean. It's a good thing Naruto has an anime adaption.

I don't really expect Sasuke and Orochimaru to show up til after the war. I'm not sure what they're up to, but they seem detached from the whole thing. I think Oro's looking to pick up the pieces afterwards.