2013-07-01, 09:52 | Link #1501 | |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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(And if you go back far enough in the discussion - i.e. back to season 1 - you'll see where some of the 'not such a big fan of Taichi' opinions started. And they were not unreasonable either, just as Taichi supporters are generally reasonable too. It's just that everyone has gotten so used to focusing on the evidence that backs up particular points of view that it's getting more and more polarised now.) But all up, this is nothing compared to what I've seen on Chihayafuru elsewhere: could we keep it at a reasonable level, please?
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2013-07-01, 10:07 | Link #1502 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I don't think it is quite low at all, it's a constant thing on this thread. I also don't think it is wrong to constructively criticize a character but the criticism tends to be closer to character bashing because those who do it are the ones who admit they dislike the character. Every thing Taichi does is scrutinized & criticized to the highest degree on here.
I am not saying bashing is any better or worse in other places. Like I said I have seen plenty of character bashing of Chihaya on places like Tumblr. And I also felt the need to defend her. I find character bashing in general to be counter productive. And it comes to the point where if you defend Taichi you are just doing so because you like his looks or are a defensive girlfriend. Sorry if I don't find that reasonable. However I am very thankful to the many posters on this thread who spoke up against that. But besides the fact I wasn't even defending Taichi, I was just defending my right to like his character and the fact that I have my own reasons (which are not superficial) just as much as anyone has their own reasons for loving other characters the best. I don't think any character is better than another in this series, I just think we all have our own personal reasons for loving the characters we do, best. It's as simple as that.
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2013-07-01, 10:13 | Link #1503 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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2013-07-01, 10:19 | Link #1504 | |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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To be frank, I can see where it comes from. That last time I made a comment about a character's actions being not quite as benign or positive as a lot of posters were making them out to be, several posts were made in that character's defense straight after. But that's the nature of discussion - those who like a character will defend them, and those who don't like the character as much (or at all) will continue to point out their flaws and perhaps even the bias that they perceive in the other side. Even the "protective girlfriend" comments came about as part of a discussion, not out of the blue. My point, though, is that the biases do exist both ways, and if we all take them into account, maybe we wouldn't get so frustrated when others don't see things our way? (And of course, there is the third group of people who genuinely evaluate all the characters' actions without bias, acknowledging things they do that are admirable, and criticising things they do that aren't. But my sense is that, perhaps, no one really is in this group even though there are those amongst us who think we are. Personally, I'd like to think of myself as generally being fair to the characters, but I am ready to admit that I'm probably a little biased one way or another.)
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Last edited by karice67; 2013-07-01 at 10:38. |
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2013-07-01, 10:38 | Link #1505 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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I find the need to constantly criticize a certain character to be counter productive. What exactly does it add to the discussion except showing us all how much they hate the character?
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2013-07-01, 10:48 | Link #1506 | |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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^Guess I'm pretty thick-skinned then, since I glossed over the analogy when I first read it.
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And does it necessarily mean they hate the character in question? Case in point: what I raised about Kana a few pages ago - I quite like Kana most of the time. I just didn't think that one of the things she did in that last episode was praiseworthy.
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2013-07-01, 10:59 | Link #1507 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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But I do think there is sometimes a small line between criticism & bashing. Characters can make mistakes and that can be acknowledged. However when you try to say the flaws make the character themselves bad (and you start judging the fans of the character) then that is when I think we have crossed the line. Also I am not saying every time I disagreed with someone criticizing a character I automatically think they were character bashing. It all comes down from the intent and purpose I see from their posts. Certain posters who claim to dislike the character seem to post about the character all the time. I question their reasoning. Or maybe I have always been on the line of thought that if I don't like something I would rather focus on what I do enjoy.
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2013-07-01, 11:02 | Link #1508 |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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^
And that would be why I disagreed with your assessment that "Taichi gets bashed on this thread a lot almost to a ridiculous degree", because from what I perceive of the intents of the people writing the posts, it really hasn't happened all that often.
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2013-07-01, 20:27 | Link #1510 | ||
SIBYL salesman
Join Date: Feb 2011
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Sure, there are claims of Taichi making some development (yes, even I'd admit that), but I rarely feel it's in the areas that he needs it most. If someone (Taichi fan, balanced fan, ...anyone) can say "well, look here at episode X, where he redeemed that past action by doing Y", then I'd stop holding it against him (or maybe in reality I won't...) The closest I can think of, is his declaration of Arata being his "teki" as a forward development of his coward behavior of his past, but even that a bit of a hard sell. I feel that I could spin more positives regarding Sybil in Psycho-Pass than I can with Taichi... It becomes harder and harder to see his development when it seems to be moving as slow as say, Kimi ni Todoke season 2. In any case, I think it makes sense why the number of character discussions (and "discussions") is Taichi > Chihaya > Arata. Taichi has the most screen time, and Arata has the least. There isn't much to discuss about Arata as his issues tend to be resolved on the same episode it was raised in. That's why the only comments I can only say is usually, "that was touching" or something like that. Maybe I could ask where does Yuu (Arata's neighbor) fit into this shipping catastrophe? Her screen time has disappeared off the face of the earth...hopefully back in season 3? (no manga hints/spoiler, please) |
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2013-07-01, 20:42 | Link #1511 |
残念美人
Join Date: Oct 2004
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The game manga is getting interesting peak now. I support anyone who win the competition this time. Several karuta players' personal story are re-introduced. It also the show is about karuta player. It's not just about Chihaya and friends. I can sympathize each of them(except the current karuta master). His story was skipped in the first season, but it made the anime story incomplete.
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2013-07-02, 08:11 | Link #1512 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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I just wanted to make it clear that although I was responding directly to you my rant in this instance was not directed at you at all.
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2013-07-02, 18:11 | Link #1513 |
Anime-Only Viewer
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
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I'm a straightforward type of guy, and that does get me in trouble a lot times. My intent is (usually) not to demean people, but to make an analysis as straight as possible without holding back too much. I do apologize that I have offended some people.
I do have strong opinions, and it is difficult to hold back at times. I'm not as eloquent karice67, and I think I have offended her a few times in other threads (unintentionally). I think at this point in the story, people's opinions on certain characters have been ingrained into each individual and is unlikely to change. We can discuss it back and forth, but it is more to prove our point than to try to change anyone's opinion. Unless a character has a huge change or presence, the opinions will still be the same. As for Arata, I don't think discussion about him will increase until he becomes part of everyday life around Chihaya (i.e. move to Tokyo). The few snippets that he appears in have usually resulted in a positive light. If he has a fault, it is usually self-incriminating. I agree with DragoonKain3 that the author probably writes Arata in as a character she herself is in love with. As for Taichi, yes he has made improvements. However, his improvements have been slow, and he still often shows unattractive personality attributes, considering how much screen time he gets. He also has a background that I usually don't like in characters either (rich, handsome, has everything he wants on a platter, girls are goggling over him, yet sulks over the fact he can't get the girl he really wants) and a personality that rubs me the wrong way. Either way, I do love to discuss this show, but if I don't respond to something, it is because I'm trying to not escalate it to a full blown argument.
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2013-07-02, 18:42 | Link #1514 | |||
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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I do think he could be more proactive with Chihaya instead of wallow in self-pity like he does sometimes. But considering she still sees the world through karuta lenses, he would probably have a better chance with her if he beats her in karuta beforehand.
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2013-07-03, 01:58 | Link #1515 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
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Now, the question of love is brought up for Taichi. Does Taichi really love Chihaya? Or does he lust for or is infatuated with her? Does he really want what is best for her? Or what he wants for his desires?
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2013-07-03, 02:19 | Link #1516 | ||||
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Even Arata lusts after her, or why do you think he was ogling a photo of her sister in the last episode? But lust is a normal part of romantic love, so there's nothing wrong with this. He wants what is best for her, but he doesn't always know what that is. That's normal though. He's not psychic, after all.
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2013-07-03, 10:32 | Link #1518 |
Lost at Sea
Join Date: Mar 2010
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He's definitely putting her wishes above his, or more exactly, putting what he thinks are her wishes above his own. We give Taichi props for doing so, but I'm not sure if that's the whole story.
For one thing, as it turns out Chihaya has a whole range of complicated feelings about watching Arata and Shinobu's match. Ultimately, she decides to see it, following Sakurazawa-sensei's sharp admonition (quoting from memory) "If you've decided to follow this path then there is nothing you are better off not knowing!" All of this has nothing to do with Taichi's chivalric gesture, which is nice but doesn't relate to her actual feelings. The other thing is that earlier in the season we got some indications that Taichi needs to put himself first for a change. I recall Tsutomu or Nishida saying something to the effect of "He's finally putting himself first" when Taichi goes off to practice, following Chihaya's declaration that his making Class A was one of her goals for the season. Loving Chihaya is a major--positive--impetus upon Taichi's character developemnt. It's a lot of the reason he's trying to become a person who doesn't run away (although I think that goal is based ultimately on gaining Arata's respect.) And Taichi's selfless devotion is inspiring. At the same time, his love for her is probably getting in his own way to some extent. It's not helping him relate to Chihaya as she is: his gestures tend to be conventional, like the flowers in the hospital, and not personal. And to the extent his presence keeps other boys away, he contributes to Chihaya's own immaturity. For what it's worth, I find character bashing and defending equally besides the point, insofar that reflects the poster's personal likes and dislikes. What's interesting is not you or me, but the anime, the manga.
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2013-07-03, 11:27 | Link #1519 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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I don't care what people personally think of a character or who their favorite characters are but in the end that comes down to the writing not really the character.
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2013-07-04, 00:04 | Link #1520 | ||
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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Personally though, I feel that Taichi's goal is to ultimately become someone that he himself can be proud of.
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cards, josei, karuta, sports |
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