2012-09-27, 16:23 | Link #10661 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
|
Concerning Sol's analysis of the relationships, despite all your theories on the larger, nuanced characterization to come, I think you're reading a bit too much into the potential narrative, especially in regards to what said narrative will mean for Medaka's characterization, and how that relates to her relationship with Zenkichi, and her unexplored, non-existent relationship with Kumagawa.
Essentially, I really don't see anything but a Medaka x Zenkichi outcome at this point. I certainly haven't perceived any hints towards Kumagawa x Medaka ever happening. Basically all of Zenkichi's previously potential relationships are far more possible to materialize, though still extremely unlikely. Nishio, I feel, has made the Medaka x Zenkichi outcome rather inevitable. |
2012-09-27, 16:26 | Link #10662 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
|
He's implying he's permanently killing of Aijimu and all charactsers are now permanent cripples. Either the manga ends really soon, takes a dramatic turn or most likely this all is reversed contradicting what was previously said in usual bad writing style. Which do you thing is the most likely?
|
2012-09-27, 16:27 | Link #10663 |
KORA!!
Scanlator
|
So here's my say on this, there's something iffy going on here. We're do for a swerve of some kind, because I'm not buying any of this emotion Shiranui is displaying to us. She's supposed to be playing a role of some kind, presumably one that surprised even her and it came from ol' mastermind Kajiki himself. It's almost a bit cliche as to how the situation has been developing with her, and almost too predictable, so I'm not really buying her involvement in this as we're currently made to believe. And for Iihiko to appear during their interrogation of Shiranui seemed a bit too coincidental to match. Also, Iihiko's ability is that all the damage he causes is permanent? That doesn't exactly explain away Anshin'in losing all those times in the past, unless none of those matches were fights where Anshin'in could get injured.
|
2012-09-27, 16:40 | Link #10665 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
|
Quote:
|
|
2012-09-27, 17:11 | Link #10666 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
|
Quote:
|
|
2012-09-27, 19:19 | Link #10668 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Also, that was hardly a wall of text, lol. I provided a simple straightforward paragraph followed by a short three sentence summary. The second section was an answer to your question about why there are zero obstacles to Nishio throwing away the Zen x Medaka romantic relationship. At this point, you're clearly not even trying. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
On the issue of how the hell any of the characters are gonna recover from being beaten up by Iihiko: I'm gonna guess that the Shiranui may possess some restorative abilities counter/opposite to Iihiko's destructive charactericteristics. If they are the ones who are repressing him, right? At the very least, Hanten might be able to do something. My impression of what's going on right now, is that Obi is actually letting Iihiko destroy and rampage a bit out of punishment. Do you remember how Kumagawa revealed that Shiranui actually left her feelings at Hakoniwa Academy, and wanted Medaka & co. to follow her? As a result of that, everybody did come to Shiranui village. And it's a further result of that, that Zenkichi, Kumagawa, Ajimu, Medaka, etc. are now completely beaten up by Iihiko. Since the Shiranui mission is supposedly to devote their lives to being doubles and erasing themselves of any personal emotion, Shiranui's feelings for "Hakoniwa Academy" are a crime. As a result, Obi has let Iihiko loose for awhile in order to punish her. |
|||||
2012-09-27, 19:54 | Link #10669 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
|
So, you're still telling us that we're completely delusional for believing what the manga was leading us to believe, while at the same time calling us ignorant for our un-enlightened opinions on the manga, because you're analysing it so deeply, and are so into yourself, you can't see all you're doing is probably filling in blank space with your own thoughts, instead of recognizing Nishio's blatent inconsistancy with the end of the Jet-Black Bride arc?
Don't get me wrong, you seem like a bright fellow. But maybe that's why you're reading too much into it. But hey, I guess we uneducated peons are lucky to have such an analytical mind to tell us all about Medaka Box and how we are oh-so-ignorant to it's true form. I mean, if not, we'd still think the ending of the previous arc was one of the worst segments of the manga. I mean, damn. Seeing through the blatently false ending of the True Flask Plan Arc? The one where the manga and a few chapters after clearly indicated a change of the status quo for the best? Powerful stuff, friend. And even then, it's just our subjective opinions. They won't change because someone else has a different reading. Even if you might be reading too much into the manga, or as you put me, reading too little. Quote:
I mean, you actually think Medaka is anywhere near likeable right now? Geez. She's as soul-crushingly boring as ever. A very large part of why Nishio's inconsistancy sucks so much, and why people have a problem with it. Last edited by Wolfenstein; 2012-09-27 at 20:17. |
|
2012-09-27, 21:34 | Link #10671 | ||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
|
Quote:
What I would like to happen is for the less important characters to all go on a big quest to find the Dragonballs MacGuffin that can heal everyone somehow, but that probably won't be the case. Quote:
You must either be unintelligent or deliberately obtuse. |
||
2012-09-27, 22:04 | Link #10672 |
Spinning round and round~
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Singapore
Age: 31
|
...And just when you think the Not Equals were the icing, suddenly a definite destroyer comes out. Anything he destroys never heals huh? Now I'm seriously thinking Nisio's gonna come up with someone who can heal anything whatsoever.
|
2012-09-27, 22:11 | Link #10673 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
|
Perhaps Iihiko is just a pawn in Kajiki's plan. Maybe he's trying to stimulate Medaka to do something?
I mean, he's the one who removed Shiranui, purposefully because he said he had something prepared for Medaka. He gave Shiranui yet another part, as well. Under that focus, recent events can be seen under a whole new light. I'd absolutely love it if all the emotion Shiranui is displaying for Hakoniwa is absolutely bogus. Then we could have the Shiranui that's actually awesome, the little black-hearted minus. Of course, she still wet a double in the face because he bad-mouthed Zenkichi, so her aspect of not giving a shit about anyone but Zenkichi still seems to be part of her real self. |
2012-09-27, 22:14 | Link #10674 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
|
Quote:
However, you're entirely ignoring the fact that I've never really been criticizing you personally. Like I said, a large part of the entire western readership of this series appears to be under the same inclinations. And as a result of not really being connected or aware of the Japanese community and just being insulated in your little societies with limited information, you end up convincing each other of ideas which aren't true. Rather than following the true majority represented by the audience over in Japan, you end up getting sucked into the majority over here. Seemingly reasonable beliefs and assertions based on limited information get passed around as if they're true, and people develop their own mental models of reality based on incorrect perceptions of a source several layers removed. The point is, even if you're entitled to subjective opinions, recognize them for what they are. In particular, recognize that your assumptions and perceptions could be incorrect and entirely different from those better placed towards the source. I have in no case made the assertion that people should just take my own observations at face value. I don't generally read the manga in Japanese, I don't have access to supplementary materials like light novels or audio CDs, I don't browse Japanese imageboards. All my perceptions provide are a hint, a possibility I myself somehow confirmed. What is actually important for people to do is to try to look at the original material themselves before they ever decide something for sure. And also to respect people like original Japanese readers, who can provide direct/objective data and probably know a lot more. There is nothing wrong with ignorance, but it is active, wilful ignorance, which does not make any attempt at verifying itself or obtaining justification, which hurts most. Quote:
|
||
2012-09-27, 22:18 | Link #10675 |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
|
How in the hell are the opinions of the Japanese fandom more valid than ours? We are reading the same manga. Just because it is translated does not mean that it suddenly becomes a completely different work removed from all context of the original.
|
2012-09-27, 22:39 | Link #10676 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
|
You are still missing tons of details obviously because you can't even be arsed to read a simple paragraph. Do you not even realize how getting a bunch of people not to say the specific sequence "usan" is not even a feat at all? There are thousands of words in the Japanese phonetic vocabulary, 69 or something basic sounds, the avoidance of words containing the sequence "usan" could be easily accomplished through endless synonyms. Medaka needing to do something special to make people not say "usan" might not have even been necessary at all, there is a huge chance that something like that would have happened even completely randomly. The only actual thing Medaka needed to control was the use of the individual syllables "u", "sa", and "n" in Momo's shiritori words. The first thing Medaka did in order to simplify that task was to get rid of the other two suitors between Momo and her through her stalling trick. Subsequently after that, Medaka psychologically analyzed Momo's likely sequence of words by giving her a specific goal/sequence to aim for: ending her last word with "n". When you know someone's goal, have confidence in their skill, and can calculate the optimal route someone would take to accomplish it, predicting their actions is a matter of simplicity. As a result of the numerous manipulations Medaka made, she cornered Momo into saying "kousan".
Quote:
The point is, when you're reading translations of Medaka Box in particular, and Nishio Ishin in general, you should assume you aren't getting the full story. That's something you have to live with, and which you have to adjust your judgements to take into account accordingly. Last edited by Sol Falling; 2012-09-27 at 23:08. |
|
2012-09-27, 22:56 | Link #10677 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
|
Quote:
You're basically just saying the opinion of the international community is inferior to the Japanese one, who you just happen to agree with, so they are probably more knowledgeable/can understand the manga better, hence you are calling our segment delusional because we were lead to believe something the manga outright showcased, and saying the Japanese know better because you assume they read/are reading the manga the same way and for the same reason you are. That's a ridiculous defense, as stated before. Your opinion that the plot-holes aren't there is no different or more substantiated from mine which states that they are. It's pointless trying to argue any further. |
|
2012-09-27, 22:58 | Link #10678 |
KORA!!
Scanlator
|
Something like this yeah, he's probably part of a bigger thing, it just seems like we're focusing him as part of the immediate threat and assuming his purpose right now is only to challenge them directly since he's kicking all sorts of ass, however things are moving really quickly now to be reaching any kind of conclusion yet, no?
|
2012-09-27, 23:01 | Link #10679 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
|
Quote:
|
|
2012-09-27, 23:04 | Link #10680 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Do you honestly believe you have the same level of understanding of the story as the Japanese? Do you honestly believe that there are no obstacles or deficiencies which could prevent you from interacting with the text on the same level as a speaker of the original language? If you say yes, I will tell you that that is the definition of delusion, my friend. |
|
Tags |
action, comedy, harem, nishio, romance, shounen, student council |
Thread Tools | |
|
|