AnimeSuki Forums

Kamui04 · 2012-10-20, 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

lol - so, in this episode Kazuto enters the world of Alfheim Online, which is basically a modified copy of SAO run by RCT (run by you know who...), but there's one huge bug/exploit: Any player from SAO who logs in with the same NerveGear gets to keep all of the skill points from the previous game, giving them a massive advantage. And so that's why, even as a n00b, Kirito is able to be "h4x" out of the gate. As he says in the episode, he really is a cheater this time.

I suppose they never actually tested this scenario, considering I'm guessing most of the SAO players aren't really interested in playing any more Virtual MMOs for the time being -- except, of course, Kirito.

Well it isn't like everything has to be handled by the server. If every single process was done by the server it would need an impossible amount of computing power. Usually the client side handles the inputs and overall calculations for the player actions, then they are encrypted and sent to the server where they go thru validation and this affects the game world.

From personal experience in FFXI your inventory was stored on both sides, but actions that you started affected your client first and then went to the server. That's why early on there were exploits to dupe items and money while sending items ingame by producing lag which was later patched. Another hack flagged a normal item into a unique item on your client side, so you couldn't receive another one and forced the system to give the +1 one while crafting. And so on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

There are thousands of players logging in and out of ALO. They're not going to come into contact with the 300 that easily, or their fate wouldn't be "mysterious". In fact, we don't even know that the 300 are in ALO at all. For all we know, the birdcage with an Asuna lookalike inside is just Sugou being creepy. The last update may have brought a Kirito-faced mob somewhere.

Or maybe they aren't even among the normal population, just like who seems to be Asuna in a birdcage. If those 300 players found out they were brought to another game and saw new faces, they might contact them and use them as message in a bottle to the outside world.

***relentlessflame*** · 2012-10-20, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarste

More to the point, an SAO veteran who still can't log out would be putting themselves in a position where they're fighting other players. Seriously, why the heck would such a person be participating in voluntary PvP?

Well, they presumably can't logout, but that doesn't mean that the old SAO death penalty still applies. In this game, you can respawn rather than be "terminated", so I assume that may apply to the "300" as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamui04

Well it isn't like everything has to be handled by the server. If every single process was done by the server it would need an impossible amount of computing power. Usually the client side handles the inputs and overall calculations for the player actions, then they are encrypted and sent to the server where they go thru validation and this affects the game world.

Well, yeah -- I went on to make a similar comment in the subsequent paragraph in that original post. But the exploit/bug is that the new game is reading the cache data from the old game, which shows just how much of a "rip-off" the new game is. They didn't even change the encryption keys or save paths for the cache data or anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamui04

Or maybe they aren't even among the normal population, just like who seems to be Asuna in a birdcage. If those 300 players found out they were brought to another game and saw new faces, they might contact them and use them as message in a bottle to the outside world.

This is true, and a good point. They either have to all be kept in isolation, or they somehow can't be aware of their predicament.

NoemiChan · 2012-10-20, 18:22

Episode 16...

I'm glad of the Kirito's progress in the game... damn cheater!!! hehehe.... he is bad ass as ever.... Killing an opponent withoutknowing what hit him.... Cool....

Highlights:

Agil>"The game ain't really over unless Asuna is save.

Yui-chan is back, brings me tears actually... the reunion is so emotional..

Lyfa has just had her "jaw dropped" because of Kirito's awesome moves!!!

Triple_R · 2012-10-20, 18:36

There's one aspect of this episode that massively stretches my suspension of disbelief, but putting that aside, this was an enjoyable episode.

Kirito gets to play hero to a girl, again, but I have to admit it's executed in a very pleasing and genuinely cool way. The kid in me loved much of that rescue scene that the episode ended on.

And I honestly like the concept behind this new VR MMO. All the characters being able to fly does a good job of distinguishing it from SAO.

Yui coming back I have mixed feelings on, but again the way it was executed was very pleasing and kind of cool. I like how Yui has basically been turned into a Zelda fairy, that's kind of funny.

Much of Kirito's dialogue is total cheese, though, like it was wrote for a late 80s/early 90s pro wrestler.

Not saying I dislike it, but it's so over-the-top that it gives the show a certain Narm Charm.

All in all, I'll give this episode 8/10.

Tsukiyomi · 2012-10-20, 18:37

Alfheim online suppose to be a MMO not based on levels but player skill

....but i dunno how Kirito's SAO data ported over allows him to grab another player's sword with bare hands as he's being attacked. That's not skill, that's as if he's a lv99 character in a game where there are no levels... Don't know if it's considered spoiler but anyone can shed some light on this?

Xellos-_^ · 2012-10-20, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by paraalso

I think few players would keep their old Nervgear, let alone put it on again voluntarily. Kirito seems to have kept his almost as a memento. He regards it with some fondness, as he has good memories of his time in the game despite everything.

you guys are forgetting that Yui is store in the original equipment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsukiyomi

Alfheim online suppose to be a MMO not based on levels but player skill

....but i dunno how Kirito's SAO data ported over allows him to grab another player's sword with bare hands as he's being attacked. That's not skill, that's as if he's a lv99 character in a game where there are no levels... Don't know if it's considered spoiler but anyone can shed some light on this?

Kirito does have Hand-To-Hand Combat as a skill in SAO.

Deltaray · 2012-10-20, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsukiyomi

Alfheim online suppose to be a MMO not based on levels but player skill

....but i dunno how Kirito's SAO data ported over allows him to grab another player's sword with bare hands as he's being attacked. That's not skill, that's as if he's a lv99 character in a game where there are no levels... Don't know if it's considered spoiler but anyone can shed some light on this?

Actually he uses skill when grabbing that lance, "Guard" seems to be enough difference in guard and opponents attack skill so you can block it with hand lol.

Tsukiyomi · 2012-10-20, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

you guys are forgetting that Yui is store in the original equipment.

Kirito does have Hand-To-Hand Combat as a skill in SAO.

How does hand to hand combat > sharp weapons? It would've been more realistic if it was a parry or he can Rock Lee someone

Rising Dragon · 2012-10-20, 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsukiyomi

How does hand to hand combat > sharp weapons?

When you're disarmed of your sharp weapon and can't get it back, hand to hand combat > sharp weapons.

SilverSyko · 2012-10-20, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by larethian

Probably because the author never expected his story would continue into another game when he first started, I reckon. Anyhow, at least the characters are connected, and this series is more about characters with the games as a setting. I think it's also fair to say they probably retained this title in the actual publications since the series started from SAO in a major way, rather than trying to come up with a cool title which retains its semantics 100% across the series.

I still think it's weird to name your series after something that gets permanently eliminated from the story right after the first arc is finished. Besides, I'm not even sure why the writer of this story even felt this series needed to be continued in that case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awrya

Alfheim is the world inhabited by elves, while Midgard is the human world, they are part of the 9 worlds of Norse mythology.
Since it's called Alfheim, it makes sense the avatars are fairies.

Uh okay...but then shouldn't they be playing as elves and NOT faeries? I've tried looking it up but I can't find any connections between these two species.

Quote:

Well, she said she's a navigation pixie in this game

Faerie or pixie, relatively the same thing so it doesn't make much of a difference to me.~

NoemiChan · 2012-10-20, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsukiyomi

....but i dunno how Kirito's SAO data ported over allows him to grab another player's sword with bare hands as he's being attacked. That's not skill, that's as if he's a lv99 character in a game where there are no levels... Don't know if it's considered spoiler but anyone can shed some light on this?

ALO is similar to SAO but it not the same (LOLS)

Guess a "Grab" skill exist... Gue-heh-heh..

Tsukiyomi · 2012-10-20, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

When you're disarmed of your sharp weapon and can't get it back, hand to hand combat > sharp weapons.

Except if you watched this episode he grabbed the sword blade with bare hands... OP

I guess they can see it was a round spear...and not sharp?

Wandering_Youth · 2012-10-20, 18:54

Nice, the Black Swordman is back!

Typical is it not that a game company decides to totally rip off (literally) the SAO game and typical that said bugs and exploits just happens to fall upon our hero. It makes ya wonder what fools are running this game.

Perhaps just perhaps, because of this carry-over bug we find in the new game that affects all veteran players of SAO. It would then suggest that these 300 players are actually in an area of within ALO that is so high in level that the newer gamer population just can't reach yet. The newer population might have to play for 2 years just to reach areas where the missing 300 would be.

karuroso · 2012-10-20, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordstriker21

On a side note Kirito's skills max out at 1000 huh? And from what Agil said Alfheim put's emphasis on skills rather than actual levels so it's not just a major advantage. It's overkill. A noob OHKOing a vet player? I'm surprised they didn't report him to a GM.

Technically Kirito isn't a noob in ALO since his playerskill was all acquired playing SAO for two years straight all the time with the real risk of death(and to top it Kirito was a clearer), compared with the normal ALO player that can logout/play whenever they want and without the risk of real death and ALO isn't nowhere near two years of existence as well, so even if his skills weren't there Kirito would certainly kill them easily, IF of course the battle remained on the ground...

Xacual · 2012-10-20, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deltaray

Actually he uses skill when grabbing that lance, "Guard" seems to be enough difference in guard and opponents attack skill so you can block it with hand lol.

Which sadly the anime didn't show so it just looks like he grabbed it. Would it have killed them to do a small icon pop up for that.

Krono · 2012-10-20, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

I still think it's weird to name your series after something that gets permanently eliminated from the story right after the first arc is finished. Besides, I'm not even sure why the writer of this story even felt this series needed to be continued in that case.

This is hardly a unique issue to the author of Sword Art Online.

Lots of authors write a book, or a trilogy, then end up writing more stories following the same characters, or other characters in the same world. The result being that a whole series is born. For example the Dragonlance series was originally just a trilogy about a group of heroes searching for the legendary dragon lances, so the armies of good could use them against the dragons the armies of evil possessed. It's long since grown into a huge series that very seldom has anything to do with dragon lances, but retains the name.

Clarste · 2012-10-20, 19:09

I think it's very important for the viewers to keep in mind exactly what the difference between "levels" and "skills" are. Egil tells us that there are no levels in this game. Which most likely means that no one has significantly more HP or Strength or whatever than anyone else. This is in contrast to SAO where Kirito was high enough level to simply ignore attacks from lower level players. Here, in the absence of such an advantage, he would probably have been killed if he allowed the spear to hit him straight on.

Completely separate from that though are "skills" which are increased by usage. Apparently this is the exact same system that existed in SAO, right down to the way the data is storied in the game. So he has max or close to max rank in One-handed Swords, Weapon Defense, etc. There's actually a big list shown in the episode if you stop on the right frame. Now, I don't know exactly what these do, but it's easy to imagine that they affect the speed of his sword swings, how fast he can run, and of course what levels of attacks he can parry. These are the things that would give him an advantage over other players.

Lastly, there's a third, somewhat unrelated point. The new game has no "sword skills" which doesn't mean it doesn't have a sword skill (which it clearly does) but simply that it doesn't have the glowy-sword special attacks that they were always doing. If you think back to the previous episode when he sparred with his sister and commented that he did badly because he lacked those, it's pretty obvious where the show is going with this. He has to get used to "the basics" to play this game, but once he does so his skill ranks are already pretty high.

rocket · 2012-10-20, 19:20

Well this was delightful!

I was happy to see Yui back.
I cheered for Kirito being a badass and rescuing the girl.
Heh, I chuckled at Kirito hesitating over the inventory deletion... I know that feeling!

Now, why did Kirito not end up in newb town? Was it simply a glitch because of his inventory? I'm not so sure... he hesitated over picking his user name, so I suspect Asuna's fiance has prepared a special surprise for that particular user name...

NoemiChan · 2012-10-20, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket

Now, why did Kirito not end up in newb town?

I have two possible explanation

>Bug. e.g. Kirito's character is a "high stat" newbie.

>Probably Asuna's fiance... but why? Whats special with the starting city, Kirito ain't dumb that needs tutorials.. or is he?

Oroboro · 2012-10-20, 19:32

The way Kirito's data transferred over kind of reminds me of transferring characters from Baldur's Gate 1 to Baldur's gate 2.

Especially since how certain items wouldn't transfer over, and if you forced them to they'd changed into other items or become corrupted since their item numbers in the code now referred to different things.

That, and Kirito seems positively giddy to just be playing a game again, instead of fighting for his life.

View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 16
10 out of 10 : Near Perfect...	31	24.22%
9 out of 10 : Excellent...	49	38.28%
8 out of 10 : Very Good...	27	21.09%
7 out of 10 : Good...	10	7.81%
6 out of 10 : Average...	8	6.25%
5 out of 10 : Below Average...	0	0%
4 out of 10 : Poor...	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad...	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad...	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Torturous...	3	2.34%
Voters: 128. You may not vote on this poll

2012-10-20, 18:36	Link #64
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	There's one aspect of this episode that massively stretches my suspension of disbelief, but putting that aside, this was an enjoyable episode. Kirito gets to play hero to a girl, again, but I have to admit it's executed in a very pleasing and genuinely cool way. The kid in me loved much of that rescue scene that the episode ended on. And I honestly like the concept behind this new VR MMO. All the characters being able to fly does a good job of distinguishing it from SAO. Yui coming back I have mixed feelings on, but again the way it was executed was very pleasing and kind of cool. I like how Yui has basically been turned into a Zelda fairy, that's kind of funny. Much of Kirito's dialogue is total cheese, though, like it was wrote for a late 80s/early 90s pro wrestler. Not saying I dislike it, but it's so over-the-top that it gives the show a certain Narm Charm. All in all, I'll give this episode 8/10. __________________

2012-10-20, 18:37	Link #65
Tsukiyomi step closer to Amaterasu Join Date: Apr 2004	Alfheim online suppose to be a MMO not based on levels but player skill ....but i dunno how Kirito's SAO data ported over allows him to grab another player's sword with bare hands as he's being attacked. That's not skill, that's as if he's a lv99 character in a game where there are no levels... Don't know if it's considered spoiler but anyone can shed some light on this? __________________ He whose strength is flawless

2012-10-20, 18:54	Link #73
Wandering_Youth lost in wonder forever... Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: edge of my dream in the land of twilight...ZzzZzZ	Nice, the Black Swordman is back! Typical is it not that a game company decides to totally rip off (literally) the SAO game and typical that said bugs and exploits just happens to fall upon our hero. It makes ya wonder what fools are running this game. Perhaps just perhaps, because of this carry-over bug we find in the new game that affects all veteran players of SAO. It would then suggest that these 300 players are actually in an area of within ALO that is so high in level that the newer gamer population just can't reach yet. The newer population might have to play for 2 years just to reach areas where the missing 300 would be. __________________

2012-10-20, 19:20	Link #78
rocket Senior and Demented Join Date: May 2006	Well this was delightful! I was happy to see Yui back. I cheered for Kirito being a badass and rescuing the girl. Heh, I chuckled at Kirito hesitating over the inventory deletion... I know that feeling! Now, why did Kirito not end up in newb town? Was it simply a glitch because of his inventory? I'm not so sure... he hesitated over picking his user name, so I suspect Asuna's fiance has prepared a special surprise for that particular user name... __________________ -rocket www.adorablerockets.com

2012-10-20, 18:22	Link #63
NoemiChan Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Philippines Age: 36	Episode 16... I'm glad of the Kirito's progress in the game... damn cheater!!! hehehe.... he is bad ass as ever.... Killing an opponent withoutknowing what hit him.... Cool.... Highlights: Agil>"The game ain't really over unless Asuna is save. Yui-chan is back, brings me tears actually... the reunion is so emotional.. Lyfa has just had her "jaw dropped" because of Kirito's awesome moves!!!

2012-10-20, 19:09	Link #77
Clarste Human Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37	I think it's very important for the viewers to keep in mind exactly what the difference between "levels" and "skills" are. Egil tells us that there are no levels in this game. Which most likely means that no one has significantly more HP or Strength or whatever than anyone else. This is in contrast to SAO where Kirito was high enough level to simply ignore attacks from lower level players. Here, in the absence of such an advantage, he would probably have been killed if he allowed the spear to hit him straight on. Completely separate from that though are "skills" which are increased by usage. Apparently this is the exact same system that existed in SAO, right down to the way the data is storied in the game. So he has max or close to max rank in One-handed Swords, Weapon Defense, etc. There's actually a big list shown in the episode if you stop on the right frame. Now, I don't know exactly what these do, but it's easy to imagine that they affect the speed of his sword swings, how fast he can run, and of course what levels of attacks he can parry. These are the things that would give him an advantage over other players. Lastly, there's a third, somewhat unrelated point. The new game has no "sword skills" which doesn't mean it doesn't have a sword skill (which it clearly does) but simply that it doesn't have the glowy-sword special attacks that they were always doing. If you think back to the previous episode when he sparred with his sister and commented that he did badly because he lacked those, it's pretty obvious where the show is going with this. He has to get used to "the basics" to play this game, but once he does so his skill ranks are already pretty high.

2012-10-20, 19:32	Link #80
Oroboro Endless Sorceror Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Wisconsin	The way Kirito's data transferred over kind of reminds me of transferring characters from Baldur's Gate 1 to Baldur's gate 2. Especially since how certain items wouldn't transfer over, and if you forced them to they'd changed into other items or become corrupted since their item numbers in the code now referred to different things. That, and Kirito seems positively giddy to just be playing a game again, instead of fighting for his life.