One Piece - Chapter 785 [manga]

[james0246]

So Doflamingo is defeated?...Maybe not, but still anything to quickly end these fights and get on with the story...

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

I highly doubt that all logia users will achieve this level of Awakening or that most have done so already. I'm sure it's reserved for only the top tier DF users. It's also not specific to logia since Mingo is doing it and he's a paramecia user.

I also don't think Crocodile turned Alabasta into a desert. It was already a desert right? Caesar and Law may have it working to an extent though since they are manipulating their environments. There are probably others too like Eniel. I'm not 100% clear what the criteria is for Awakening yet though.

Well in Crocodile's case, one could argue that perhaps his ability to suck objects and living things dry and reduce them into sand could be an awakened power

Originally Posted by Rawrz

So...uh these devil fruit awakenings taking their power to a whole new level by affecting the surrounding around them...Its gonna be amazing to see :

What Mr 5 (Floor above you turns C4?), Mr 3 (Wax covering the world around him itself?), Foxy (Slow Time?) and Brook (Mass-Resurrection?) can do to environment.

I'm imaginging Luffy turning the world around himself into rubber and bouncing off of everything with the added rubbery object increasing his velocity

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

I'm imagining Luffy turning the world around himself into rubber and bouncing off of everything with the added rubbery object increasing his velocity

Would Rubber hitting rubber bounce/impact the same as rubber hitting a solid surface? I imagine a lot of Luffy's force would be diminished as his rubber body hit rubber surfaces, absorbing the released tension of his body.

Plus, his awakened state would be a complete rip-off of Dachshund Binami's abilities.

[Drake007]

So was the thing that Newgate did in Marineford the unlocked version of his gura-gura fruit?

[Tong]

Originally Posted by Drake007

So was the thing that Newgate did in Marineford the unlocked version of his gura-gura fruit?

More than likely.
But this Awakening thing is so subjective yet, specially for Logias, that it's hard to tell if it's Awakening itself or just a skill or raw power.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Well in Crocodile's case, one could argue that perhaps his ability to suck objects and living things dry and reduce them into sand could be an awakened power

yea that's true. I really wonder just what Awakening means exactly. There are a lot of DFs that don't only effect the user. I feel like it has to be more than that. And if Crocodile is indeed an Awakened DF user it would kind of diminish the impact of this new revelation since Luffy beat him a long time ago and with only a fraction of his current power.

[Belise]

I think this whole "awakening" thing is getting blown out of proportion.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Belise

I think this whole "awakening" thing is getting blown out of proportion.

lol! yea, the advanced usage and as Mingo put it: "a whole new world of possibilities for Devil Fruits" is clearly not a big deal in the One Piece universe...

Oda is using Mingo as an introduction to the knowledge and powers we will see with the Yonkou when they start fighting for real against the likes of Luffy and the other Supernovas. I wouldn't be surprised if DF Awakening becomes the strongest weapon in the story.

[Belise]

The ancient weapons are the most powerful weapons in the story. And if awakening is so profound, why is Doflamingo still getting smacked around Dressrosa?

It's an important note, but I doubt very highly that it's more significant in battle/strength than haki.

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

lol! yea, the advanced usage and as Mingo put it: "a whole new world of possibilities for Devil Fruits" is clearly not a big deal in the One Piece universe...

Oda is using Mingo as an introduction to the knowledge and powers we will see with the Yonkou when they start fighting for real against the likes of Luffy and the other Supernovas. I wouldn't be surprised if DF Awakening becomes the strongest weapon in the story.

Unlikely.
Powerful, yes, but i doubt it will overshadow non DF users like Zoro, or Mihawk, especially as one of the Yonkou does not even have DF, and neither did Gol D Rogers nor does Luffys grandfather who was Rogers adversary.

DF's, awakened or not, give a major boost in power, but are not in and of themselves a decider in fights.
Remember what the lion guy said about Logia users in the New World?
I bet same is true for awakened DF users, if you rely only on your fruit, awakened or not, you don't last long.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

yea that's true. I really wonder just what Awakening means exactly. There are a lot of DFs that don't only effect the user. I feel like it has to be more than that. And if Crocodile is indeed an Awakened DF user it would kind of diminish the impact of this new revelation since Luffy beat him a long time ago and with only a fraction of his current power.

I'm not sure if it will be THAT big of a problem. Afterall we already had to deal with a similar problem from him being beaten by Luffy early in the grandline while at the same time treating the shichibukai like they are a big deal. I mean because of Croc's loss to Luffy he's already has the perception of being a weaker shichibukai, and the addition of Moria's defeat did create the perception that the Shicibukai are on a lower tier than some of the other powerful groups. But when Croc broke out of impel down and joined the war he was treated like he was treated like serious business. If high status of the shichibukai can survive croc's defeat early in the series, then so can "awakening"

Not to mention oda kinda of did the same thing with Haki. Haki was the big thing leading up to and going into the new world and yet we actually saw the signs of Haki all the way back in the very beginning when shanks saved Luffy; We then saw it on skypeia and later on we saw it with Garp. We didn't know it was Haki back then, but Haki existing back then didn't undermine the impact for when it become a big deal later.




Y'know, i do have to wonder if Oda has been planning this stuff ahead of time or if he just understands how to make a good retcon. Like maybe he realized sometime around thriller bark that he was gonna need an effective counter for logia's because he couldn't come up with a way to counter them like he did with Croc and Enel. So he came up with Haki. He might not have planned Haki ahead of time, but when he did come up with the idea, he decided to look back through the series to some of the "off" things that occurred and decided he would tie them all together. How did Shanks intimidate the sea monster? Before he was just badass, but now its haki. How did skypeians read minds? Before it was Mantra, but now its just the name they used for Haki. How did Garp punch Luffy? Before it was a "fist of love", but now its Haki... the best kind of retcon is the kind that feels like it fits so well into the continuity that you don't even know its a retcon...

And i could imagine Oda doing the same with Crocodile and awakening. Before his sands powers just allowed him to do those things, but now Oda can claim that Croc was tapping into the higher power of his devil fruit.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Belise

The ancient weapons are the most powerful weapons in the story.

true, but it depends on how deep Awakening goes. I imagine that the source of DFs is going to be on par with or stronger than the ancient weapons. it's basically a creator of limitless possibility whereas the ancient weapons seem more akin to A bombs (I don't mean that they are giant bombs, I just mean their impact on the world). if Awakening taps into that original DF source power then who knows? we'll just have to wait and see I guess.

And if awakening is so profound, why is Doflamingo still getting smacked around Dressrosa?

yea, I'm curious to see what next chapter has in store. I highly doubt that he's done just after revealing that his DF is Awakened. If he is, then I won't think as highly of it as I do now. after Oda proclaiming Law was dead as a cliffhanger, I have no reason to believe that Mingo is finished either.

It's an important note, but I doubt very highly that it's more significant in battle/strength than haki.

that's not how these Shounen mangas are written though. We heard about haki a very long time ago now. Introducing a new power level that isn't as strong is the opposite of what usually happens. It would be like Gear 4 being weaker than Gear 3.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Y'know, i do have to wonder if Oda has been planning this stuff ahead of time or if he just understands how to make a good retcon. Like maybe he realized sometime around thriller bark that he was gonna need an effective counter for logia's because he couldn't come up with a way to counter them like he did with Croc and Enel. So he came up with Haki. He might not have planned Haki ahead of time, but when he did come up with the idea, he decided to look back through the series to some of the "off" things that occurred and decided he would tie them all together. How did Shanks intimidate the sea monster? Before he was just badass, but now its haki. How did skypeians read minds? Before it was Mantra, but now its just the name they used for Haki. How did Garp punch Luffy? Before it was a "fist of love", but now its Haki... the best kind of retcon is the kind that feels like it fits so well into the continuity that you don't even know its a retcon...

And i could imagine Oda doing the same with Crocodile and awakening. Before his sands powers just allowed him to do those things, but now Oda can claim that Croc was tapping into the higher power of his devil fruit.

I completely agree. Some of the powers do feel like a retcon (of course it is impossible to know for certain), but regardless it is a near, if not entirely, perfect retcon so it's actually quite an achievement. It's impossible to know exactly what was in Oda's mind and when, but it would be a bit of a stretch for me to believe that he planned all these powers from the very start. I think it's just as you said and as he needed new powers to introduce, he found ways to make them work with pre-existing scenes. Likewise, I can totally see what you're saying with Crocodile and Awakening as a good possibility.

[bonsobon]

Putting aside the current discussions about awakened devil fruits and what not I'd forgotten that Jinbei's story has finished. Does anyone know what it was all about, because even after reading through the whole thing I'm confused as to what the point of it even was. It just seemed very bland and uninspired if you ask me.

[Lexxus]

Oh. My friend showed this to me.


I didn't even notice that Oda already mentioned the "awakening" in the past.

PS. Picture not mine nor my friend.

[OH&S]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

I completely agree. Some of the powers do feel like a retcon (of course it is impossible to know for certain), but regardless it is a near, if not entirely, perfect retcon so it's actually quite an achievement. It's impossible to know exactly what was in Oda's mind and when, but it would be a bit of a stretch for me to believe that he planned all these powers from the very start. I think it's just as you said and as he needed new powers to introduce, he found ways to make them work with pre-existing scenes. Likewise, I can totally see what you're saying with Crocodile and Awakening as a good possibility.

My take on the whole thing is that a lot of the basics of haki were figured out very early on. Haoushoku is a given with Shanks in Chapter 1. Kenbunshoku is a given with the Skypiea Arc's Mantra being introduced right after the term Haki is used fir the first time in the series by Teach.

The real question is where Busoushoku comes into this. I believe Busoushoku's effect was already figured out as early as the introduction of Smoker (logia devil fruits) and Dragon. Simple reason being it becomes impossible to win against most logia devil fruits with physical strength as they have intangible bodies. Given that Luffy solely relies on physical strength it becomes impossible to continue the story without there being a mechanism to fight them existing. I mean there was Seastone as another option but... There's also the fact that Dragon was able to stop Smoker by grabbing his hand so at least in my eyes the intention of Busoushoku Haki has always been there.

I liken this entire scenario to Nen in HunterxHunter. It was always there but it needed to be pointed out when it was time to learn it.

That's not to say that everything was figured out beforehand. The Armament Hardening aspect clearly was a more recent inclusion otherwise we would have seen it being abused during the Marineford battle.

Of course, I can't see into Oda's mind. But I think his genius shows when looking at how he included and introduced Haki into the story. Even if you can make an argument suggesting that he made it all up on the fly, like Toriyama did, you can't completely rule out the possibility of it being a decade old plan. The fact that he was able to get through most of Part 1 without using Haki is simply impressive.

[Trafalgar D. Law]

After reading all your posts, I believe I have even more questions than before. The very first being: Is that bag on jesus burguess' back special, fot it has strange devil fruit patterns? He might actually show us how his crew manages to steal devil fruits. Of course I hope he'll get his filthy little ass kicked by sabo before he succeeds.

About the awakening. I believe Oda planned it a loooooong time ago. I'm ways too lazy to search the chapter and page so I hope you juste remember that in the Alabasta arc, when luffy was fighting Crocodile, he told luffy something about better, more creative or effective ways to use devil fruits. He said something like: "you can become really strong if you learn how to really use your devil fruit". As mentioned lower, Crocodile also knew in Impel Down that these animal guards were "awakened zoans".

I don't think that awakening your devil fruit is like a button you can turn on and off when needed. I think it's more some kind of state when you become conscious that you can do way more than everything you ever could before, you become conscious, therefore "awake". I don't even believe that it makes you stronger. I just think you become able to do more thing with you fruit, whether you become stronger or not depends on how you use these new abilities.

I wouldn't be surprised if Crocodile was awakened already despite the fact he lost against luffy. Maybe he just wasn't strong enough. Look at the boa sisters, they weren't exeperts but knew very well how to use haki. Still luffy beated them both without even knowing what haki was. therefore It's unlikely that "awakening" is some kind of cheated power. That's what I like about one piece. There is no power stronger than any other. People and training are the main reason of their own strength.

As for Doflamingo, I hope he's done now 'cause if he stands up, I don't know how luffy would win alone! And I need luffy to win alone because after 1,5 years training with Rayleigh he should be at least able to win against a weakened Doflamingo. It's getting really serious now, having 2 yonkous on your back is not something to joke about.

[Belise]

^Law, how did you do all that typing with one usable arm?

What you said about no power really outweighing another is (imo) very on point. As I said before, I think "awakening" is being blown up far too much. Especially since it was mentioned several times already. But in the end it basically comes down to the individuals utilizing haki/df/alliances or whatever their source of strength is.

Doflamingo isn't finished but my patience for this arc's runtime sure is. I'm so done with Dressrosa >_>. I need some fresh OP story. Time for a new arc.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Belise

What you said about no power really outweighing another is (imo) very on point. As I said before, I think "awakening" is being blown up far too much. Especially since it was mentioned several times already

to be fair, you're saying it was mentioned before as if Awakening is some common knowledge phenomena to the reader. It was a surprise to Luffy (I think) and Mingo is explaining it basically to us the readers as well since this is the first time we are supposed to take real note of it.

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by Belise

As I said before, I think "awakening" is being blown up far too much. Especially since it was mentioned several times already.

I think this is largely because this arc has stretched on and on and on for so bloody long, that anything that is seen as delaying the end, is seen as the worst thing ever.

[Belise]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

to be fair, you're saying it was mentioned before as if Awakening is some common knowledge phenomena to the reader. It was a surprise to Luffy (I think) and Mingo is explaining it basically to us the readers as well since this is the first time we are supposed to take real note of it.

Um, to be fair, that's your opinion. Not the point I was making. I'll say it again since you seem to have a very hard time understanding.

I think that awakening isn't that big of a deal. That's what I think. For whatever reasons why.

Originally Posted by J4n1

I think this is largely because this arc has stretched on and on and on for so bloody long, that anything that is seen as delaying the end, is seen as the worst thing ever.

Actually that really is part of the reason. XD A small part anyway.
Though before it ends I want to see CP-0 again. I don't care for whatever Sabo is about to do. I don't even like Sabo. He's kinda creepy looking to me, I dunno. He has Ace's hair style and Luffy's big eyes. Not a good mix imo.