2008-05-05, 01:33 | Link #41 | ||
Gregory House
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A friend, for me, is someone I get along with and I can spend a nice time with. Spending time with me may or may not involve all of those things you listed. I don't care what you, your neighbor or society has to say about that. And yes, I've got women that have done the things you mentioned for me and I never felt like having sex with them. Quote:
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2008-05-05, 01:43 | Link #42 | |
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 37
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1) Cheek → Cheek: Normal 2) Lips → Cheek: Seems like guy isn't making a move 3) Lips → Lips: Pretty close relationship 4) Cheek → Lips: What the hell is the guy thinking?!?!?! |
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2008-05-05, 02:07 | Link #43 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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(I should start off by mentioning that I am an adult single heterosexual male, old enough to have been in at least one serious relationship (that lasted a few years). Because of this, I can only really address this discussion from a similiar position as myself.)
There seems to be some sort of belief, amongst several of the posters, that attraction (even the extreme of sex) will always end in relationships. This is simply not true. You can be attracted to your friends (even, if you are close enough, have sex with them) and not have it lead to a relationship. For a simple example, if you have been friends with a single woman long enough, she will sometimes ask you for help in regards to looking for a date or which clothing looks good etc. To give an honest answer, some semblence of attraction must be felt for the woman you are addressing (how can you tell her if she looks good if you do not actually thinks she looks good ), and I imagine that the reverse is also true (I am sure there is an entire conversation concerning the ability to recognise beauty and what that signifies, but I am too tired to write that discussion ). Just because you find her attractive does not indicate a relationship or necessarily a possible relationship (despite the many Hollywood romances to the contrary ). Ultimately it is also an issue of propriety, or maybe more specifically being prudish vs. being open/whatever the antonym of prude would be and of course the culture you were raised in (these questions of kissing seem extremely silly to me, but to others they can be fairly important to relationship definitions/boudaries.) |
2008-05-05, 02:10 | Link #44 |
Chicken or Beef?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle
Age: 41
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I believe physical attraction plays a major role as well, but even if you think they are physically attractive, other things come into play as well. Like how your relationship is, if you're so close to each other that the thought of sleeping with them is almost as bad as sleeping with your brother/sister, then theres a good chance nothing will come out of it. But if you're not physically attracted to them, it makes it easier to be friends without the dangers of going further. I don't really care what everyone says but you HAVE to be attracted to them physically on some level for a relationship to work. Sex and physical intimacy is very important in a relationship.
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2008-05-05, 02:19 | Link #45 | |
Buddhajew
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Diego
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And yeah, if any guy I kiss on the cheek does anything back, I'd be scared. Actually, if I'm kissing a guy on the cheek, I'd first have to consider my circumstances. That being said, I have kissed a guy on the cheek. And yes, I am a heterosexual male. To be more on-topic, I do have some girl friends who I don't consider particularly attractive, and several with which I can't really see myself getting romantically involved ever. Though I actually have lived next door to a girl (for nine years, Osana Najimi power!), who's probably dated every guy who has asked her out, which includes most of her current and previous male friends (even one 4 years older than she was. ) and asked me out several months back. That could be a bit of evidence to the contrary? |
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2008-05-05, 03:48 | Link #46 |
Silent Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Netherlands
Age: 38
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I have female friends(guys still rule the majority :O ). I can't see what my relationship is with them if we aren't just "friends." There are a few where I can say they are hot or w/e, but going into a relationship with them is just like incest. Just feels wrong on so many levels.
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2008-05-05, 12:14 | Link #49 |
PolyPerson!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northern VA
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That's absurd; I have more male friends than female friends, I daresay, and they've never tried to go past the friendship mark.
Heck, I feel more comfortable telling my guy friends things because woman are generally more catty and such. There's a very valid reason I don't generally get along w/ females. I'll also note a lot of my male friends are terribly good looking and droolworthy, but there's only 1 I'd fall over myself to hook up with. I have a lot of good looking female friends too but again; save for two, we've never gone past the friends mark. Even then, one was just a weekend thing, and the other's the woman we're trying to get to move in with us. The rest of my femmefriends are just that; friends. Same w/ the guys. I never understood why people seem to assume if a guy & girl hang out a lot together they MUST be dating or whatever. Why can't we just enjoy each others' company?
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2008-05-05, 12:16 | Link #50 | |
9wiki
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I don't normally say something like this but for the purpose of making a point... Most of my female friends are very attractive. Your descriptive "real hot" would be an understatement for some. And yet we're "just friends". Why? First of all, I see them as more than just a face and body. They are human beings, with traits that make it clear how inappropriate it would be to pursue a relationship with, and their own lives and needs that make it clear they don't need the distraction or pressure of romantic interest from a friend. It's simple respect. Secondly, I'm a grown man. That means I have goals and focus that are completely incompatible with being distracted by some potential for frivolous self-gratification. As a man, I am, without question, attracted to beautiful women. However, as a man, I have priorities that preclude romantic pursuit from being an inevitability. Certainly one ought to be more aware and careful in setting physical and emotional boundaries around women when there is greater potential for attraction (or when it is simply there), but that's not difficult for some one with willpower and respect for others.
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2008-05-05, 12:33 | Link #51 | |
PolyPerson!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northern VA
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Firstly, if your significant other doesn't like you hanging out w/ people of the opposite sex, GET A NEW SIGNIFICANT OTHER!!! Honestly; there's no room for jealousy or paranoia in a relationship. Gods know I would not've stayed w/ my husband for the last 12 years if he had issues w/ my male friends. He knows I'm not going anywhere. And I have no issues w/ him hanging out w/ females; why would I? That's just silly if you're planning on having a good healthy commitment w/ them. Society SAYS a lot of things are wrong; that doesn't make it so. Ideals and such will not change if we dont' take matters into our own hands. "Well they think it's wrong" means it'll STAY "wrong" since no one wants to stand up and go "hey screw society". I am as close, if not closer, to my male FRIENDS as I am my female ones. Granted, I may be an odd case, but people are people, regardless of their gender. That's how I approach others, and how I expect to be approached. People here at work learned long ago I am ME, I am not a woman, and don't treat me as such. I expect everyone to be treated the same, whilst I realize that's a pipe dream, I generally attempt to live my life like that. Maybe it's because I live such an alternative lifestyle, who knows. Again, no offense, but it just hit a bunch of pet peeves You explained your point of view very well.
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2008-05-05, 13:56 | Link #52 | |||
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(To oversimplify and generalize... And please note that "sexual intimacy" does not mean "sex"...) For a woman, a relationship with a mate is marked as unique by exclusive sexual intimacy. Ideally, they are most emotionally intimate with their mate, but emotional intimacy is something they have with various sorts of people. For a man--even a completely faithful monogamous one--sexual intimacy is not what marks the relationship with a mate as unique, but the fact that it is the most emotionally intimate out of all others. I am not a bitter misogynist like most of the proponents of Ladder Theory, but the idea does have some merit. Women consider sexual intimacy and emotional intimacy two separate scales, while for men the two are linked in haphazard ways. That doesn't mean emotional intimacy always leads to sexual intimacy for a man, but there is that tendency, and a woman with whom he shares sexual intimacy tends to get bumped up to the top of the "emotional intimacy" scale, because they're intertwined. I am close emotionally to a gorgeous female friend of mine who I've known well for years, but I wouldn't ever entertain thoughts of sex with her--the thought would give me dry heaves. *shudder* Ew. However, when I do find my mate, I fully expect to quickly find far greater emotional intimacy with my mate than I do my friend. Wise people, like Marina, learn to recognize the signs and have appropriate barriers. I do suggest, though, that you ladies not judge men for being attracted to you as long as they're maintaining appropriate space and respect for you. It does NOT mean they're lechers or philanderers in waiting--well, most men will be, but even the finest man alive is still a man, simply an honorable one. Just don't provide confusion or temptation that might mislead any one. Quote:
Though I haven't been to Buenos Aires, WanderingKnight, I have appreciated that custom in other parts of South America. There's nothing quite like the air of friendship when entering a room and kisses are dispensed all 'round. The teenage and young adult girls tend to be a bit more reserved around adult male gringos, of course, but the older women are delightfully unabashed. Everywhere I've been in the region there are such warm, wonderful people.
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2008-05-05, 17:27 | Link #53 | |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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Just as an example, I am my girlfriend's first boyfriend. It's been over two years now, but we initially dealt with some feeling of jealousy on her part. I have a ton of female friends, you see, and it's quite possible that some did have romantic feelings for me. Was it wrong for my girlfriend to be a bit upset? Not at all. Even though she trusts me and knows that I love her, I don't think it was wrong for her to feel a bit uncomfortable at all. I say that because if the situation were reversed, and she were spending a lot of time with certain other males, I might feel a bit neglected or insecure, myself. She has very few male friends that she interacts with regularly, though, so I've never experienced it for myself. It'd be very selfish of me to tell her that she has trust issues simply because I'm not in a similar situation to feel it for myself, in my opinion. So I do my part to ensure that I spend a bit less time with certain people that make her uncomfortable, and let her know if she's being unreasonable. When it comes down to it, whose relationship means more to me - hers, or the average friendship of a person or two? (That can easily be turned into a slipper-slope argument; know your limits beforehand. You should be the one to determine what's reasonable and what isn't. I just dislike the idea of cutting off anyone who you think is holding part of you back.) I think you're probably in full agreement with me, but I figured I'd throw it in there anyway. I've been incredibly happy and I believe it's purely due to committment and willingness to communicate openly about discomfort and insecurities. Be understanding, be tolerant, and be willing to compromise - those are the crucial parts of a relationship that most people seem to lack, and they're balanced by being able to gauge your own happiness, knowing when and having the strength to get out of a relationship, and knowing what you want (these are also lacking in many people, but to a lesser degree). The answer to the question is yes, of course. Even if you harbor a sexual or other attraction to a friend, you can still be friends. Maybe this just gets easier to balance as you get older, when sexual desires don't spontaneously override your thoughts.
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2008-05-05, 20:18 | Link #55 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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I'm still going to stand by my statement that the bond that a woman and a man form does not generally meet the full potential of friendship compared to the bond that friends between the same gender can form (Unless it is romantic). But let me add in something since Kyuusai made me think about this, because I am a man I cannot speak for a woman, so this is coming from a man's POV.
I should change my vote to yes in this poll, but I voted no only to stress my thought on it. The option for no already deals in absolutes, and absolutes do not exist, unless I was to quote Benjamin Franklin here on death and taxes. So I basically voted no under the assumption that more more often not do women and men form true friendships outside of romantic relationships. @cheyannew You are definitely right, and I don't agree with society myself.
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2008-05-05, 21:30 | Link #56 |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
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You cannot be friends with someone that you are sexually attracted to. The end. If you are friends with a girl that you are attracted to, you do not want to be friends with her.
Guys only have one ladder. At the top are girls they actively want to fuck. At the bottom are girls they wouldn't admit to fucking even if they were drunk. Girls on the other hand have two ladders. One is a ladder of guys that they would consider to be partners. The other is a friends ladder. If a guy tries to jump ladders, he runs the risk of falling into the abyss. Read up on Ladder Theory to get a confirmation.
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2008-05-05, 21:37 | Link #57 |
Chicken or Beef?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle
Age: 41
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So far, the results are pretty much what I have figured it'll turn up, in a few more days, when the number of voters increase along with posts, I'll show the guy I had this debate with, and show how narrow his views are.
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2008-05-05, 21:51 | Link #58 | |
User Title eaten by ravenous bunnies
IT Support
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Zeon
Age: 33
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But i guess i pharsed it wrong
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2008-05-05, 22:07 | Link #59 | |
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 37
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2008-05-05, 22:15 | Link #60 | |
9wiki
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If you guys are incapable of viewing male female relationships outside the scope of a juvenile pursuit of sex, that's your limitation. There may be a grain of truth behind "Ladder Theory", but if that is really how you perceive relationships, I highly recommend seeking an expanded world-view.
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